jaqenh'ghar1997

Ned stark

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Though I haven't AGoT available yet to do a re-read, I'm pretty sure that he didn't, because I remember being amazed as I saw this detail in the show. Now, I wonder how Yoren found Arya in the crowd (and why)?

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13 hours ago, Moving Watch said:

Though I haven't AGoT available yet to do a re-read, I'm pretty sure that he didn't, because I remember being amazed as I saw this detail in the show. Now, I wonder how Yoren found Arya in the crowd (and why)?

Exactly 

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On 8/30/2016 at 0:17 PM, Moving Watch said:

Though I haven't AGoT available yet to do a re-read, I'm pretty sure that he didn't, because I remember being amazed as I saw this detail in the show. Now, I wonder how Yoren found Arya in the crowd (and why)?

Varys probably made the arrangements for Ned to enter the Night's Watch.  He would likely have known that Yoren had met Arya and could have told him that she was loose and to keep an eye out for her.  There is no indication in the book that Ned saw Arya, although it is told from Aryas' POV so she wouldn't necessarily have noticed.

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16 hours ago, Nevets said:

There is no indication in the book that Ned saw Arya, although it is told from Aryas' POV so she wouldn't necessarily have noticed.

Oh, of course, that's right.

Maybe, Varys had contrived it, but wouldn't he rather have handed Arya over to the Lannisters? Why should he be interested in saving her?

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1 hour ago, Moving Watch said:

Oh, of course, that's right.

Maybe, Varys had contrived it, but wouldn't he rather have handed Arya over to the Lannisters? Why should he be interested in saving her?

Maybe it's for the same reason (currently unexplained) of Jaqen H'ghar being in the black cells and on the way to the Wall with Yoren?

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6 hours ago, Moving Watch said:

Oh, of course, that's right.

Maybe, Varys had contrived it, but wouldn't he rather have handed Arya over to the Lannisters? Why should he be interested in saving her?

He may have been concerned that she would come to harm or even killed if the Lannisters got hold of her.  Remember, Cersei wanted her to lose a hand at the Trident, and Cersei told Sansa later that Joffrey still had it in for her.  He could also be hedging his bets in case the Starks are successful.  We know his loyalty to the Lannister is, shall we say, a bit suspect.  

It is also entirely possible that Yoren simply noticed her in the crowd.  His presence there, after all, is logical, as he was there to take Ned into the NW.

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We don't know, but I don't think Ned saw her witht he crowd. He was half delirious with septic fever anyway.

But Yoren was supposed to be there to welcome Ned as a recruit and leave with him. Yoren met Arya, while she was looking all muddy and scruffy, in Ned's solar, after her overhearing Varys. So, he is less likely to be fooled by her scruff appearance afterwards. Varys was the one who set up the arrangement with Yoren to pick up Ned, and he probably did let it slip that Arya was on the loose. Or Yoren wondered where Arya was when Sansa was obviously present on the stage. Arya made some commotion trying to get to her father and it drew Yoren's attention.  

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On ‎8‎/‎30‎/‎2016 at 7:02 AM, jaqenh'ghar1997 said:

In the books did ned stark see arya when he was beheaded ?

 

On ‎9‎/‎2‎/‎2016 at 1:04 PM, DutchArya said:

Maybe it's for the same reason (currently unexplained) of Jaqen H'ghar being in the black cells and on the way to the Wall with Yoren?

Arya was on the stone plinth under the statue of Baelor at first, so it is conceivable that Yoren spotted her there and recognized her. They had only a brief encounter in the Hand's solar, but before that he had visited Winterfell many times in his travels and knew the Starks pretty well.

I doubt that Ned, in his weakened state, would have spotted her. This is the first time he's seen sunlight in days, so his eyes probably aren't functioning that well. Plus, there would be no real way to get word to Yoren since he is up on the dais while Yoren is in the crowd (show notwithstanding).

I also think that if Varys had spotted her and told Yoren to grab her, then Varys would have kept her for himself, or at the very least had one of his people stay with her on the journey north if Yoren refused to give her up. Which leads us to Jaquen. It's certainly possible that J was working for V, but since J is an assassin, I don't think this is the kind of thing he would go in for. Maybe Varys offered him his freedom if he would make sure Arya made it back to Winterfell, but it seems to me J wouldn't have much trouble slipping his captivity, even in the black cells.

So it's more likely that J was in the black cells for a reason, and the conspiracy theorist in me says that he was intended to go north with the black brothers in order to kill someone. The only someone who would warrant the cost of a Faceless Man would be Ned, so that leads to the question, who would want Ned dead so badly. Varys? Has no real motive, plus plenty of opportunity in the cells. Cersei? Unlikely, she knows Ned's political value, and she could have just had him executed.

The only person who fits the bill IMHO is Littlefinger. He is familiar with the FM, and he has the strongest motivation of anyone to want Ned dead. It was LF who pitched the idea of supporting Joffrey and then removing him after Stannis and Renly were eliminated. Ned also knows, or would soon know, the lie about the dagger that started the fighting. And Ned's death would also spur the north into open rebellion, just as LF wants. I also think it's highly conceivable that LF was the one to convince Joff to execute Ned to show the realm that he is a king to be reckoned with. JH would be the backup plan if that didn't happen.

Either that, or everything truly was a coincidence.

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2 hours ago, John Suburbs said:

 

Arya was on the stone plinth under the statue of Baelor at first, so it is conceivable that Yoren spotted her there and recognized her. They had only a brief encounter in the Hand's solar, but before that he had visited Winterfell many times in his travels and knew the Starks pretty well.

I doubt that Ned, in his weakened state, would have spotted her. This is the first time he's seen sunlight in days, so his eyes probably aren't functioning that well. Plus, there would be no real way to get word to Yoren since he is up on the dais while Yoren is in the crowd (show notwithstanding).

I also think that if Varys had spotted her and told Yoren to grab her, then Varys would have kept her for himself, or at the very least had one of his people stay with her on the journey north if Yoren refused to give her up. Which leads us to Jaquen. It's certainly possible that J was working for V, but since J is an assassin, I don't think this is the kind of thing he would go in for. Maybe Varys offered him his freedom if he would make sure Arya made it back to Winterfell, but it seems to me J wouldn't have much trouble slipping his captivity, even in the black cells.

So it's more likely that J was in the black cells for a reason, and the conspiracy theorist in me says that he was intended to go north with the black brothers in order to kill someone. The only someone who would warrant the cost of a Faceless Man would be Ned, so that leads to the question, who would want Ned dead so badly. Varys? Has no real motive, plus plenty of opportunity in the cells. Cersei? Unlikely, she knows Ned's political value, and she could have just had him executed.

The only person who fits the bill IMHO is Littlefinger. He is familiar with the FM, and he has the strongest motivation of anyone to want Ned dead. It was LF who pitched the idea of supporting Joffrey and then removing him after Stannis and Renly were eliminated. Ned also knows, or would soon know, the lie about the dagger that started the fighting. And Ned's death would also spur the north into open rebellion, just as LF wants. I also think it's highly conceivable that LF was the one to convince Joff to execute Ned to show the realm that he is a king to be reckoned with. JH would be the backup plan if that didn't happen.

Either that, or everything truly was a coincidence.

Jaqen had access to the Black Cells. Why not kill him there? Why waste time and effort travelling North with the goal of killing Ned?

GRRM said in an interview that the show scene where Ned sees Arya was something he wished he added into the chapter. So it is obviously possible in GRRM's mind. 

Great post btw! 

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18 hours ago, DutchArya said:

Jaqen had access to the Black Cells. Why not kill him there? Why waste time and effort travelling North with the goal of killing Ned?

GRRM said in an interview that the show scene where Ned sees Arya was something he wished he added into the chapter. So it is obviously possible in GRRM's mind. 

Great post btw! 

Good point. My only thought would be that it isn't terribly easy to find people in the black cells, even for an FM. Plus, questions would be asked if Ned died in the Red Keep, whereas on the road...

But that leads to a problem for LF because he needs to silence Ned before he starts talking, and the FM aren't the fastest movers in the world.

 

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