Vale vs Riverlands

[UFT]

in a war. 

round 1: who has better quality of soldiers?

round 2: who has produced the best military commanders (including dead guys)?

round 3: who can raise a bigger army if it was total war?

round 4: who has a better tradition of honor and chivalry?

 

[BarristonTheBold19]

1. The Knights of the Vale have a pretty prestigious reputation, while I've never heard anything particularly impressive or unique about Riverlands Soldiers. Plus you've got guys like Lyn Corbray and Brinze Yohn Royce. I'd definitely give the edge to The Vale. 

2. As far as we know it's pretty much The Blackfish (easily one of the greatest commanders in the series, up with Robb and Stannis) and Edmure (highly skilled commander in a direct confrontation) vs Jon Arryn. Jon was said to be wise, and I assume he's a decent commander, but nothing to show he's on the level of either of the former, particularly The Blackfish. This one goes to The Riverlands. 

3. They should be pretty close. We don't actually know the Riverlands' numbers, but I assume they're like 40,000-45,000 based on size. The Vale is probably around 50,000, so they'd have a slight edge I think. Now currently it's definitely The Vale. The Riverlands have taken heavy losses, probably second only to The Lannisters. The Vale remains untouched by war. 

4. Probably The Vale once again because their knights are held in high regard, but a lot of great stuff has gone down in the Riverlands on these grounds (ie: Tourney at Harrenhal). I'd give the edge to The Vale though. 

[fenr1s]

1: The Vale

46 minutes ago, BarristonTheBold19 said:

1. The Knights of the Vale have a pretty prestigious reputation, while I've never heard anything particularly impressive or unique about Riverlands Soldiers. Plus you've got guys like Lyn Corbray and Brinze Yohn Royce. I'd definitely give the edge to The Vale. 

Agreed the Vale seems to have a greater martial and chivalric tradition.

46 minutes ago, BarristonTheBold19 said:

2. As far as we know it's pretty much The Blackfish (easily one of the greatest commanders in the series, up with Robb and Stannis) and Edmure (highly skilled commander in a direct confrontation) vs Jon Arryn. Jon was said to be wise, and I assume he's a decent commander, but nothing to show he's on the level of either of the former, particularly The Blackfish. This one goes to The Riverlands. 

Edmure is in no way a great commander he is average at best. The Vale has John Royce and other distinguished leaders, I would put it at a draw but solely because of the Blackfish.

46 minutes ago, BarristonTheBold19 said:

3. They should be pretty close. We don't actually know the Riverlands' numbers, but I assume they're like 40,000-45,000 based on size. The Vale is probably around 50,000, so they'd have a slight edge I think. Now currently it's definitely The Vale. The Riverlands have taken heavy losses, probably second only to The Lannisters. The Vale remains untouched by war. 

 The Vale is less populated and has fewer soldiers than the Riverlands.

I would put them at around 30k while the Riverlands might have about 35k.

Overall the Riverlands have no chance of threatening the Vale directly since that would require them to get past the Bloody Gate which seems impossible. The Vale on the other hand has the potential to conquer the Riverlands.

 

[PrinceHenryris]

Which side would the Blackfish fight on?  Yeah, he's a Tully of Riverrun, but at the start of the story he's the Knight of the Gate in the Vale.

[Infinate]

1. By reputation alone easily the Vale

2. The Riverlands PRODUCED the blackfish.  but I cant honestly remember the long dead commanders from the dunk and egg stories to remember who else should go where.  

3. Assuming both start at full capacity I think the fertile riverlands should easily outman the mountainous Vale.

4. This is pretty close.  The knights of the Vale and the Royce family are pretty famous.  On the other side Darry, and Bracken, Blackwood, and Strong have some big names. I think this tilts slightly towards the Riverlands.

[Duranaparthur]

18 hours ago, UFT said:

in a war. 

round 1: who has better quality of soldiers?

round 2: who has produced the best military commanders (including dead guys)?

round 3: who can raise a bigger army if it was total war?

round 4: who has a better tradition of honor and chivalry?

 

1: Too close to call with certainty, but edging towards the Vale. I'm going to mention this a lot, but I think the Riverlands lack the cultural centralization that the Vale has, making they're soldiers somewhat more likely to fall to infighting, since we've seen how divided they can get.

2. Tied. We've heard of multiple skilled commanders for both areas, and I don't feel like tracking down the known ones when one paragraph from Martin could upset the balance anyway.

3. Bigger Army is also too close to call with certainty, but edging towards the Riverlands, in my opinion. They've got more immediate resources to field a larger army thanks to having so many rivers, and there are some logistical advantages they'd have in gathering them together... Though they correspond to the disadvantages rivers have in breaking up territory. Plus, the Vale does have to contend with scattered Mountain Clans perpetually attacking them.

4. I'm going to give it to the Vale, but more in the sociological sense than in the moral sense. Again, the Riverlands seem to have less cohesive strength in their honor and pledges of fealty  than the Vale does. Hoster seems to have been a capable war-time commander, but only managed to pull in half his bannermen, we've got the former kings of the Blackwoods and Brackens having weakened themselves in an un-ending feud, the Freys have enough confidence in their strategic position to always play it safe, and the whole area was subdued by the Iron Born in the pass. They've got a weaker history of feudal fealty than any other region of Westeros, and nothing compared to the Vale of Aryn, where even defeated enemies like the Royces now follow a lord Regent simply because he had the favor of the Aryn family.