williamjm Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 1 hour ago, Werthead said: Still no statement by Theresa May on the issue. She seems to be digging a big hole for herself here. It's understandable that she'd want to try to build a relationship with any new American government, and Trump is too thin-skinned to respond well to public criticism but now that she's aligned herself with him she's going to get asked for her opinion on every controversial thing Trump does especially since she previously claimed she would have no problem speaking up on issues where she disagreed with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaircat Meow Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 4 minutes ago, mormont said: And we never ever comment on other countries' policies. Oh, no, wait, we do and indeed Theresa May herself did that today, in Turkey. I never said we didn't. In this case though it is, imo, none of our business. When Trump begins doing what Erdogan did after the attempted coup Theresa can tell him off too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 OK, so if there's nothing wrong, in principle, with the UK PM commenting on other nation's policies, then your post above defending May is pointless. I would also say that our expectations of the US are and should be higher than those we have for Turkey. So we are entitled to expect May to criticise Trump even if the situations aren't exactly the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaircat Meow Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 7 minutes ago, mormont said: OK, so if there's nothing wrong, in principle, with the UK PM commenting on other nation's policies, then your post above defending May is pointless. I would also say that our expectations of the US are and should be higher than those we have for Turkey. So we are entitled to expect May to criticise Trump even if the situations aren't exactly the same. No. I think some things are reasonable for a foreign leader to comment on but not others. It would be especially stupid in this case given one of the pro-Brexit arguments was the concern about Turkish (i.e. Muslim) immigration. edit: bizarre, if true. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/28/revealed-real-reason-donald-trump-theresa-may-held-hands-not/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williamjm Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 Even if we go along with the argument that May shouldn't be commenting on purely domestic US matters, if the Tory MP's claim quoted on the previous page about him being barred from entering the US despite only having British citizenship is accurate then the rights of British citizens to travel definitely sounds like something the British government should have an opinion on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The guy from the Vale Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 4 minutes ago, williamjm said: Even if we go along with the argument that May shouldn't be commenting on purely domestic US matters, if the Tory MP's claim quoted on the previous page about him being barred from entering the US despite only having British citizenship is accurate then the rights of British citizens to travel definitely sounds like something the British government should have an opinion on. There's also a considerable number of people with dual Iranian citizenship living in Europe due to Iranian policy being never to revoke citizenship ever. They may have been in Europe for decades, often as a result of being dissidents or family of dissidents. So as a result of being opposed to an Islamist regime, and living in Europe for most of their lives... they get barred from entering the US. In some cases in spite of their long pro-US stance. It feels absolutely crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williamjm Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 4 minutes ago, theguyfromtheVale said: There's also a considerable number of people with dual Iranian citizenship living in Europe due to Iranian policy being never to revoke citizenship ever. They may have been in Europe for decades, often as a result of being dissidents or family of dissidents. So as a result of being opposed to an Islamist regime, and living in Europe for most of their lives... they get barred from entering the US. In some cases in spite of their long pro-US stance. It feels absolutely crazy. I'm sure Theresa May will be only too glad to explain why the newly knighted Sir Mo Farah can't safely be permitted to travel to the US where his family live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 May has now issued a very vague, "We don't agree with this move, or something, we don't know. Give us money," kind of statement. So...yay? I can't see May avoiding making a more detailed condemnation of this, since many British citizens are affected as well and it's massively counterproductive to our efforts in the Middle East, especially Iraq. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaircat Meow Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 May has now said she does not agree with the 'Muslim ban.' http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-donald-trump-refugee-migrant-ban-immigration-us-america-executive-order-prime-minister-a7551531.html edit: ninjad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 How unreasonable of her to comment on an internal US matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaircat Meow Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 2 hours ago, mormont said: How unreasonable of her to comment on an internal US matter. To be fair, we don't agree with this and won't be doing it ourselves but it is an American matter is kind of a statement of the obvious and not really the condemnation the chattering classes wanted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maltaran Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 There's a petition to stop Trump making a state visit that already has over 200k signatures https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/171928 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williamjm Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 34 minutes ago, Maltaran said: There's a petition to stop Trump making a state visit that already has over 200k signatures If Trump does come here on a state visit then I wonder how big the protests will be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Marquis de Leech Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 On 29/01/2017 at 0:05 AM, mormont said: Incidentally, congratulations to Jeremy Corbyn for yet again finding a way to turn a victory into a fiasco. I've seen a bunch of posts on FB and Twitter explaining the excellent reasons why the leadership ordering a three line whip in favour of triggering Article 50 was a brilliant strategy, none of which address the fact that imposing a three line whip when you can't actually deliver it is always a really terrible idea. Even the whips are rebelling. You'd won, Jeremy. All you had to do was allow a free vote. The bill would have passed either way, so it didn't matter. Yet for some reason you decided to try to force a chunk of your MPs to vote against their constituents' wishes. So now the story is about how your party is divided and you can't lead it, yet again. Great strategy. Had he allowed a free vote, he'd be getting blasted for not respecting the result of the referendum at the national level. He's damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. Meanwhile, the Tory MPs who represent Remain constituencies will be voting to trigger Article 50 - how is this any different from what Corbyn is doing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 1 hour ago, Roose Boltons Pet Leech said: Had he allowed a free vote, he'd be getting blasted for not respecting the result of the referendum at the national level. He's damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. I don't believe he would have been criticised for a free vote to any significant extent. Largely because the bill would pass anyway, so everyone would have recognised that it made no difference, and because everyone would have known that whipping his MPs would be pointless. I strongly believe the media would not have given a shit. They'd have focused on the government, on parties like the Lib Dems and SNP who are voting against as party policy, or on individual Labour MPs voting Remain. Corbyn, in this scenario, would have been on the right side of the media for once, while his opponents would be in the firing line. You might disagree, of course, and it might not have worked out so well. But what was completely obvious from the start was that trying to impose a whip would be a far worse disaster, and so it has proved. I heard it described the other day as 'a strong show of weakness' and that's about as good a summary as any. Imposing a whip underlined only one thing - that Corbyn does not have the ability to impose a whip on his party on this issue. So now he's getting all the flak he would have anyway, plus he's generated another 'Labour leader can't lead' story. This is not, in any way, the lesser of two evils. 1 hour ago, Roose Boltons Pet Leech said: Meanwhile, the Tory MPs who represent Remain constituencies will be voting to trigger Article 50 - how is this any different from what Corbyn is doing? Everyone understands that their party is now in favour and indeed in charge of Brexit, for a start. There are fewer of those MPs, for a second. And the Conservative party whip on this issue is actually effective, for a third. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arakan Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 I know I know...me again. But please have a read https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jan/29/merkel-explains-geneva-refugee-convention-to-trump-in-phone-call?CMP=fb_gu THIS is the kind of response to Mr Trump I would expect from every European leader believing in human rights and human decency...the contrast to the words used by Theresa May in her words to Trump couldn't be bigger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polishgenius Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 For fuck's sake man, no-one was arguing that Theresa May shouldn't have been stronger in condemning Trump's fuckery. Only that her not doing so was not evidence of her signing a pact with him against Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 Quote If Trump does come here on a state visit then I wonder how big the protests will be? Very large. In fact, it sounds like the visit is in trouble already. Trump's people have said they don't want Charles to be around because they think Charles will "lecture" Trump on climate change. They already sent out a long list of things they want to do and photo ops they want to have with Trump, the Queen, William and Kate, which the palace is likely to shoot down in flames. It also sounds like the government may have forgotten that time Trump made demeaning comments about those topless photos of Kate that were taken a few years back, which the media has helpfully reminded them of, at length. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derfel Cadarn Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 Petition now over 900,000 votes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pebble thats Stubby Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 I signed the Petition yesterday, but I also kinda want him to come for the size of the protest surrounding his visit. Its kinda a pointless Petition anyway, although I feel the gesture is important. Yes it means Our MP's will debate the issue, but in the end they won't stop the President coming. I just hope it gets more people signing it than the last one to Ban Trump from the UK. - I've not checked how many signed that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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