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Do these Arya passages foreshadow a sexual assault on Sansa and LF's death?


Blue-Eyed Wolf

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From AFFC, Chapter 6, Arya I, the chapter opens with Arya coming into the port of Braavos aboard the Titan's Daughter.  Several pages cover the approach and passage into the city under the Titan of Braavos with all Arya's internal monologue in between.  Tying into the GoHH prophecy that many theorize (as I agree with) that the giant the maid will slay in the castle made of snow is indeed Littlefinger for his original house sigil was the Titan of Braavos's head, Arya thinks of the statue:  

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He could step right over the walls of Winterfell.

Which indeed Petyr does, with Sansa's Winterfell made of snow in the Eyrie.  Many people have already noted this in the chapter, but I wanted to expand it upon the passages surrounding it and the symbolism seems even more ominous for Sansa.  

There's a mist on the sea and they are being guided in by what looks like a star, but the captain's son Denyo replies it is "the star of home."  The star turns out to be the eyes of the Titan viewed from a distance.  Arya is of course on her quest to find Ja'qen Hagar there and is going on faith that Braavos "might not be so bad" because Syrio was from there and let's herself "pretend that it was home ahead."  This parallels Sansa's faith in Dontos and then Petyr to take her home as well, even though it's a shaky faith out of desperation.  The description of the ship fits very well with representing Sansa.  Arya is standing on the prow of the ship that is adorned with a maiden bearing a bowl of fruit and purple sails.  Sansa is often referred to as a maiden both literally and in prophecy.  The fruit she bears is her claim to Winterfell.  It's the amethyst hairnet and the Purple Wedding plot that sets her moves her right into Littlefinger's grasp.  

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The mists gave way before them, ragged grey curtains parted by their prow.  The Titan's Daughter cleaved through the grey-green waters on billowing purple wings.

Petyr's eyes are noted to be grey-green.  In the chaos and confusion (the obstruction of the mists) of the Purple Wedding, Sansa flees with Dontos to the sea to a waiting Petyr, who promises to take her home.  Of course, the name of the ship is significant.  If Petyr is indeed the giant of the prophecy indicated by the Titan sigil, then Sansa is definitely the Titan's Daughter when she assumes the identity of Alayne Stone.  GRRM has already shown ship names have symbolic meaning as in the Battle of the Blackwater.  

There's much sexually infused language found in the passages that I will highlight in red.  Also another thing GRRM has been known to do.

The Titan statue itself has much in common with Littlefinger than just a sigil.  The statue has a dual nature, both as a protector and monster, as described by Old Nan:

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Old Nan had told them stories of the Titan back in Winterfell.  He was a giant as tall as a mountain, and whenever Braavos stood in danger he would wake with fire in his eyes, his rocky limbs grinding and groaning as he waded out into the sea to smash the enemies.

And then...

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"The Braavosi feed him on the juicy pink flesh of little highborn girls," Nan would end, and Sansa would give a stupid squeak.

I think it's significant to point out that Arya is standing near the prow where the maiden is, symbolically accompanying her sister through this journey.  Arya tries not to be intimidated by the statue and rests her hand on Needle's pommel for courage.  

The description of the positioning of the statue is also significant and has similarities to the mountainous Vale region.  The Titan stands astride rocky mountains that jut up from the sea, "looming tall above the jagged crests."  This sounds very symbolic of Littlefinger's domination of the Vale as Lord Protector.

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One hand rested atop the ridge to his left, bronze fingers coiled about a knob of stone; the other thrust up into the air, clasping the hilt of a broken sword.

  The stone here could be Alayne Stone in Littlefinger's grasp.  Swords are definitely utilized as phallic symbols in other contexts and Petyr is usually associated not with swords, but with daggers.  With the quips some characters make about Littlefinger's littlefinger, we have to wonder if the dagger is the author making a similar quip.  Yet, a broken sword could be on par with a dagger or indicate "clasping the hilt" of inferior member or an injured one... stay with me. I'll get back to this.  

At first, from a distance the statue seems only slightly larger than King Baelor's statue in King's Landing.  Petyr himself is noted to be in reality a small man.  In King's Landing, Petyr considered himself to be a friend to everyone and threat to no one.  He was from a very minor house and as master of coin he had the means to produce funds for whatever the king desired.  In Joffrey's reign as a boy king, a small man like Petyr would have only stood a little taller.  As the Titan's Daughter is drawn in closer still, Arya thinks "Baelor the Blessed would not reach his knee.  He could step right over the walls of Winterfell."  At this point in the story, Petyr's power and stature has grown to dominate an entire region.  Arya then realizes the ship is going beneath the Titan's legs and becomes intimidated by the "mighty roar" coming from the statue:

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The sound was as huge as he was, a terrible groaning and grinding...

  Note the repetition of groaning and grinding.  Denyo tells her the roar was a signal to alert the Arsenal of Braavos of their coming, but the roaring is evocative of anger and violence.  throughout the passages, the Titan's eyes are burning literally with fires lit inside the hallows, but the burning can also be symbolic of anger and out of control lust.  Then this passage:

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Wind and wave had the Titan's Daughter hard in hand now, driving her swiftly toward the channel.  Her double bank of oars stroked smoothly, lashing the sea to white foam as the Titan's shadow fell upon them.  For a moment it seemed as though they must surely smash up against the stones beneath his legs.  Huddled by Denyo at the prow, Arya could taste salt where the spray had touched her face.  She had to look straight up to see the Titan's head.  "The Braavosi feed him on the juicy pink flesh of little highborn girls," she heard Old Nan say again, but she was not a little girl, and she would not be frightened of a stupid statue.

Even so, she kept one hand on Needle as they slipped between his legs.  More arrow slits dotted the insides of those great stone thighs... she spied the murder holes beneath the Titan's armored skirts, and pale faces staring down at them from behind the iron bars." 

And then they were past.

The shadow lifted, the pine-clad ridges fell away to either side, the winds dwindled, and they found themselves moving though a great lagoon.

The violence of wind and wave seems to indicate Sansa/Alayne being controlled by force.  The rest of the first paragraph taken together is highly evocative of oral sex on a man with the woman kneeling down in front of him.  No need (I hope) for further explanation.  Again, Arya repeats Old Nan with the bit about "juicy pink flesh of little highborn girls" as if the author wants to drive this point home.  The next paragraph seems to represent bravery and resistance by keeping her one hand on Needle.  The arrow slits inside the Titan's thighs and murder holes beneath the bronze skirt seem symbolic of sexual violence.  The "pale faces staring down" seems to take a turn here in that the face staring down has gone pale with death.  The Titan's Daughter clears past the Titan, the shadow lifts, the violence of the winds dies out, and the ship moves into a more peaceful lagoon.  Considering the major blood vessels that run the in legs and groin as well as the presence of Arya having her hand on Needle, could this scene be symbolic of Sansa defending herself with a hidden blade and thus slaying the giant?  If Arya is symbolically with her on the ship, will Sansa be infused with some of Arya's ferocity?   

I must admit, I always imagine the GoHH prophecy would be realized by traditional northern justice to reclaim Sansa's Stark identity, but now I'm not so sure.  As Alayne's time in the Vale grows longer, Petyr's inappropriate and un-fatherly behavior toward her has been on the increase, despite her attempts to make her kisses "dutiful" and chaste.  As in Alayne I of the TWOW Littlefinger is clearly telling Sansa to exploit herself sexually in regards to ensnaring Harry the Heir.  The good thing is Sansa has already rejected exploitation in the past by her refusal to consummate her forced marriage to Tyrion and she had thoroughly rejected Cersei's cynical advice to use the "weapon between her legs."  It's been highly speculated how Littlefinger will likely meet his end and it does seem like Sansa is the best character in position to do that.  What's often debated is just what will be the tipping point that would drive Sansa to slay him.  Most say she will discover his involvement in her father's death.  Could it possibly be she so undermines his plans in the Vale (as there are subtle hints in TWOW that everything is about to fall apart for Petyr and she will have a hand in it) that the normally cool and confident Petyr becomes so infuriated he wants to reassert his power over Sansa by sexual assault?

So what do you guys think?  The Titan's Daughter continues on to the "Arsenal of Braavos" with it's "stony battlements bristling with scorpions, spitfires, trebuchets" and where "they can build a war galley there in a day."  I haven't really evaluated this part closely in context, so I'll leave it there for now.                     

        

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@Dorian Martell  Could you please refrain from posting if you aren't going to enter a constructive conversation.  Half this board would come to a screeching halt if we couldn't discuss foreshadowing ideas based on details given in a prophecy that already exists in print.  But if you think I'm wrong or have alternate ideas please do post and give your reasons. 

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Of course Dorian Martell would  choose to wait and see, lol.  Way to stay in character. 

Blue....sounds like it could be very likely. It even reminds me of her Mercy chapter, which it may be foreshadowing that instead, as it was originally in that book. 

 

This board DESPERATELY NEEDS threads like this, and pepole with nothing constructive to say should just move along. They may create their own thread. Dorian makes a lot of great posts and very astute analysis (plural form?), but I cringe everytime I see him post like he did in this thread. I liked Oberon better.

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@Ser Walton Thank you! :D And clever about noticing the "staying in character" lol

I did also think of the Mercy chapter too.  One is a sexual situation to seduce and make her target vulnerable so she can kill him, the other may be one that is force and in self-defense, which would fit the story arcs of both girls.  Another thing I was thinking about in the Alayne I chapter from TWOW, is that:

Spoiler

the gigantic phallic lemon cake that LF has made for the tourney feast.  Seriously, if this isn't an indication he wants oral sex from her and he's really starting to become unglued by his desire for her, I don't know what is.

 

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2 hours ago, Blue-Eyed Wolf said:

@Dorian Martell  Could you please refrain from posting if you aren't going to enter a constructive conversation.  Half this board would come to a screeching halt if we couldn't discuss foreshadowing ideas based on details given in a prophecy that already exists in print.  But if you think I'm wrong or have alternate ideas please do post and give your reasons. 

Nothing I said was incorrect and plenty of things can be discussed about all sorts of aspects of the books bases on published text. It does not make it foreshadowing though.  So in the spirit of your defensive response, I will give it a shot. 

No.

Arya and Sansa are on two completely differernt tacks as characters. Sansa is inherently non-violent. She possesses no martial skill or training. 
She is also far too delicate to dirty herself with the physical act of killing someone. She is highborn, and a Lady  in every sense of the word. As a highborn lady she would have servants to do the deed for her. 
There is a great deal of hinting in the text you quoted, but it has nothing to do with sansa. As you have said, the symbol of the Baelish house is the titan of Bravos, but Petyr does not use that sigil. He never has. His sigil is a mocking bird. Very much not a giant or threatening in any way. If you take the actual text of the winterfell snowcastle chapter, the giant is sweetrobin, and he is getting sicker and sicker every day. He is more likely the candidate for the "Giant" she slays, and since littlefinger is grooming her to be the lady of the vale and the lady of Winterfell, the only thing standing in the way of Petyr's plan to have her marry Harry is in fact Sweetrobin. He needs to Die for the plan to work.
Now, all of the arya stuff you quoted, we can actually say it is foreshadowing. It foresahdows the events of the mercy chapter
 

Spoiler

where arya seduces one of the people on her list. He is obviously a pedophile as she is 11 and when he is forceful with her she kills him with a hidden blade 

 

33 minutes ago, Ser Walton said:

Of course Dorian Martell would  choose to wait and see, lol.  Way to stay in character. 

Blue....sounds like it could be very likely. It even reminds me of her Mercy chapter, which it may be foreshadowing that instead, as it was originally in that book. 

;)

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You are aware that adults used to tell children tales to frighten them into behaving?  Arya is a strong willed child who seems not to like being stereotyped in girly stuff. Her momma is trying to have her raised as a Lady, Cat’s Septa is trying to fulfill Lady Catlyn’s wishes .And Old Nan the nanny tells tales or perhaps fables would be a better word.

GoT Arya II  "I ought to snap this toy across my knee here and now, and put an end to this nonsense."

"Needle wouldn't break," Arya said defiantly, but her voice betrayed her words.

"It has a name, does it?" Her father sighed. "Ah, Arya. You have a wildness in you, child. 'The wolf blood,' my father used to call it. Lyanna had a touch of it, and my brother Brandon more than a touch. It brought them both to an early grave."

Strong willed, much like Bran who is told to stop climbing.

GoT Bran II  Later, Maester Luwin built a little pottery boy and dressed him in Bran's clothes and flung him off the wall into the yard below, to demonstrate what would happen to Bran if he fell. That had been fun, but afterward Bran just looked at the maester and said, "I'm not made of clay. And anyhow, I never fall."

I would have to say no, the passages you quoted do not have to do with foreshadowing Arya’s sexual assault and death.

The boards have been so quiet I starting to think that the whole world celebrates Memorial Day.

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2 minutes ago, Clegane'sPup said:

I would have to say no, the passages you quoted do not have to do with foreshadowing Arya’s sexual assault and death.

Um, you may want to read again because I was not talking about a sexual assault on Arya or her death.   I was making a symbolic representation of the Titan of Braavos = LF, Titan's Daughter = Sansa, and Sansa's potential to be be victim of an attempted sexual assault by LF.  It's Arya that notes the statue could step over the walls of winterfell which is exactly what LF does in the snow castle scene.  Why would the author make an explicit nod to another character's POV chapter if it didn't mean we weren't supposed to make comparisons and really drive this home as something important to look closely at?  I just think the symbolic scene is superimposed over Arya's literal scene of to make a connection between the sisters.  Maybe imbuing a little of Arya into Sansa and vice versa.  

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4 minutes ago, Blue-Eyed Wolf said:

Um, you may want to read again because I was not talking about a sexual assault on Arya or her death.   I was making a symbolic representation of the Titan of Braavos = LF, Titan's Daughter = Sansa, and Sansa's potential to be be victim of an attempted sexual assault by LF.  It's Arya that notes the statue could step over the walls of winterfell which is exactly what LF does in the snow castle scene.  Why would the author make an explicit nod to another character's POV chapter if it didn't mean we weren't supposed to make comparisons and really drive this home as something important to look closely at?  I just think the symbolic scene is superimposed over Arya's literal scene of to make a connection between the sisters.  Maybe imbuing a little of Arya into Sansa and vice versa.  

I do beg your pardon. I ventured into the wrong thread. My mistake. I read the " Do these Arya passages foreshadow a sexual assault and possible death."  Then read the OP. Symbolic representation is way outta my sphere of understanding.

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3 hours ago, Dorian Martell said:

Arya and Sansa are on two completely differernt tacks as characters. Sansa is inherently non-violent. She possesses no martial skill or training
She is also far too delicate to dirty herself with the physical act of killing someone. She is highborn, and a Lady  in every sense of the word. As a highborn lady she would have servants to do the deed for her. 
There is a great deal of hinting in the text you quoted, but it has nothing to do with sansa. As you have said, the symbol of the Baelish house is the titan of Bravos, but Petyr does not use that sigil. He never has. His sigil is a mocking bird. Very much not a giant or threatening in any way. If you take the actual text of the winterfell snowcastle chapter, the giant is sweetrobin, and he is getting sicker and sicker every day. He is more likely the candidate for the "Giant" she slays, and since littlefinger is grooming her to be the lady of the vale and the lady of Winterfell, the only thing standing in the way of Petyr's plan to have her marry Harry is in fact Sweetrobin. He needs to Die for the plan to work.
Now, all of the arya stuff you quoted, we can actually say it is foreshadowing. It foresahdows the events of the mercy chapter
 

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where arya seduces one of the people on her list. He is obviously a pedophile as she is 11 and when he is forceful with her she kills him with a hidden blade 

First bolded:  While as a generalization, I think that is true.  But there's a lot of parallel language going on between the sisters indicating on a deeper level they are not really radically different.  No, Sansa was never given any official martial training and Arya resisted "lady" training with the septa every step of the way.  Their literal skill sets are different but they symbolically blur.  "Needlework" is both for mending and creating, and it's also swordplay and killing.  Literal dancing and singing and "waterdancing" and "singing of steel."  Both girls use method acting and deception, one to protect and the other as aggression.  When I see dancing in a Sansa POV, I think "there's a metaphoric battle going on here" in the interplay of characters.  When I see "waterdancing," I see graceful, skilled movements, and footwork.  Both girls can be different and yet simultaneously the same, all blurred together.  Their superficial differences were hammered into them by authority figures.  As the story goes on in a deeper level, there's a little of Arya in Sansa and a little of Sansa in Arya.

Second bolded:  True, he's never used it and that would be very interesting for him to tell us why he chose the mockingbird - so small, common, and non-threatening (maybe he already has).  But I doubt it would be pointed out what the original sigil was unless it was somehow significant in someway.  He tried to be more like a Titan in nature when he challenged Brandon Stark in a duel and got his as kicked.  From that day forward he knew he couldn't win by playing their game -- he's not built for physical combat.  He doesn't want to fight the Starks and Tullys.  He wants to "fuck them" -- screw them over, bring them down, and literally fuck the one he desires.  In that a simple "mockingbird" can accomplish more with a "little bird" than a "Titan."  

Third bolded:  While I agree he wants SR to die at the right moment that works for him, I don't agree that SR is the "giant" for this reason... the GoHH's prophecies have all been sigil-based as identifiers in every other part of the prophecy.  It's kind of her thing.  While she uses the identifier of the purple serpents that pretty much 100% of readers agree is Sansa at the purple wedding, that same maid slaying SR as the "giant" would be a sigil-free prophecy.  LF as the "giant" would then include a sigil, even if LF himself doesn't use it, but it is pointed out to us.  Using SR with his doll is a red herring keeping with George's well-known philosophy that prophecies are great, but they shouldn't be too easy.  Since the GoHH's prophesies seem extremely reliable to play out as actual character deaths, it stands to reason it's not being left as simply about a doll and snowcastle.  It's my opinion that SR was really not born sickly as Lysa and LF claim, so I don't trust their take on SR's prognosis.  He's in danger, no doubt, but as Maester Colemon seems to suspect he's actually a drug-addict and his symptoms are a description of with drawl if he doesn't get his fix.  So no one was "poisoning" him, he was being kept an addict to keep him weak so everyone would believe his death was imminent, making Harry's ascension more probable and believable.  If he's not naturally sick, then Maester Colemon can actively ween him off the sweetsleep, meaning there is a chance he won't die and could wind up getting healthier.  Since there's major clues that there are cracks developing in LF's Vale plot, SR dying might actually fall through if Maester Colemon intervenes.

Fourth bolded:  Not saying at all it has nothing to do with Arya.  It most certainly can in the Mercy chapter.  With the way the author has paralleled the sisters and being known to use symbolism with mutliple layers, it can have meaning to both.     

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36 minutes ago, Clegane'sPup said:

I do beg your pardon. I ventured into the wrong thread. My mistake. I read the " Do these Arya passages foreshadow a sexual assault and possible death."  Then read the OP. Symbolic representation is way outta my sphere of understanding.

Not a problem ;)  It's been over 20 years since I've taken a literature class and I'm learning so much from people on here way smarter than me.  People really do to great lengths to explain symbolism clearly and it's endlessly fascinating.  

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25 minutes ago, Blue-Eyed Wolf said:

Not a problem ;)  It's been over 20 years since I've taken a literature class and I'm learning so much from people on here way smarter than me.  People really do to great lengths to explain symbolism clearly and it's endlessly fascinating.  

You may have misunderstood me. I am of the opinion that Martin wrote a story, or rather is the process of writing a story. The story does not yet have an ending. May never have an ending.

Fans who wish to expand upon their favorite author’s word may do so. Martin’s story is for me complicated enough. One of my major gripes is his ambiguity. There is too much, way too much, missing information. I do not feel the need to compound that with whatever this admiring fans want to project into Martin’s work. I would remind myself and others that this is a fan based site that is not open to criticism but likes the site hits.

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I think the reason why this forum exists and flourishes is tat readers have too much hints and assumptions, but too little information. That's why we discuss it:D

3 hours ago, Dorian Martell said:

Sansa is inherently non-violent. She possesses no martial skill or training. 
She is also far too delicate to dirty herself with the physical act of killing someone. She is highborn, and a Lady  in every sense of the word. As a highborn lady she would have servants to do the deed for her. 

Sansa was about to throw Joffrey from the wall in AGOT when he made her look at her father's head. The Hound intervened, it means she was really about to do it. I suspect this scene was a foreshadowing that one day Sansa will kill a person she hated. She also confronted Joff several times in AGOT, but when he ordered to beat her she learned to hold her tongue. But it indicates that she's actually willful.

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4 hours ago, Blue-Eyed Wolf said:

One is a sexual situation to seduce and make her target vulnerable so she can kill him, the other may be one that is force and in self-defense, which would fit the story arcs of both girls

Thank you for your brilliant analisys! The topic is indeed pretty speculative and the passage could fit to both Arya and Sansa. As for Sansa there are some points that you could be right.

It's a common assumption that Sansa would expose and kill LF after learning about his role in her family's downfall. But at this moment I don't see any chance for her to find it out. All people involved in this coup, who could spill the beans, are far away and don't know where she is. I assume that Varys could probably know, but he's busy with fAegon now and even if he would show up in the Vale like "Hey girl, leave this evil man, he killed your family. come with me", I don"t think she will believe him.

But it's more likely that LF's current actions and Sansa's disobedience would expose him or ruin his plans. As we saw in Alayne's chapter the LF didn't really fooled everyone as he thinks he did. In the books we saw men turning violent towards women when their ego is hurt (Joffrey became abusive to Sansa after Trident episode, Vyseris accuses and beats Dany etc). It would be very ironical if Petyr "Keep Your Hands Clean" Baelsih would loose his cool and tries to rape Sansa or beats her as his plans got ruined.

Besides that it would be nice parallel to the situation with Ned. IN AGOT Sansa unwillingfully causes death of her father (who unwillingfully arranged her betrothal to a jerk) by exposing his plans. Later she causes death of her fake father, who arranged her betrothal to a jerk, by exposing him.

Shortly about Arya. Arya used to be an asexual character due to her age. But she's only 2 years younger than Sansa, so if Sansa is 13-14, Arya must be about 11 and 12. She's is about to experience her flowering soon and embrace her womanhood and sexuality in some way. We saw the hints in Mercy chapter. So the sexually infused language could be a part of Arya's future storyline too.

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18 minutes ago, Ashes Of Westeros said:

It's a common assumption that Sansa would expose and kill LF after learning about his role in her family's downfall. But at this moment I don't see any chance for her to find it out. All people involved in this coup, who could spill the beans, are far away and don't know where she is. I assume that Varys could probably know, but he's busy with fAegon now and even if he would show up in the Vale like "Hey girl, leave this evil man, he killed your family. come with me", I don"t think she will believe him

Yeah, the full exposure of lies may happen later on, because those character have to be positioned to meet and they just aren't there yet.  Save a few select people, I think she'd have a very hard time trusting anyone.  Almost everyone that's claimed to help her has twisted it for selfish ends.  She had no liking for Varys, so definitely a no go.  She may not even initially believe everything about LF unless the source of that information has earned her trust or has concrete proof.

 

23 minutes ago, Ashes Of Westeros said:

It would be very ironical if Petyr "Keep Your Hands Clean" Baelsih would loose his cool and tries to rape Sansa or beats her as his plans got ruined

I could very well see this happening if everything starts unraveling out of his control and especially in regards to losing his prize possession.  He's been stewing on this transferred obsession from her mother to her since the moment he met her.  She isn't a person to him with a will of her own and his ego seems so fragile he could just snap over the edge if all his work was destroyed.

 

28 minutes ago, Ashes Of Westeros said:

Besides that it would be nice parallel to the situation with Ned. IN AGOT Sansa unwillingfully causes death of her father (who unwillingfully arranged her betrothal to a jerk) by exposing his plans. Later she causes death of her fake father, who arranged her betrothal to a jerk, by exposing him.

Good catch!  That would be a sweet coming full circle.  

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43 minutes ago, Ashes Of Westeros said:

Shortly about Arya. Arya used to be an asexual character due to her age. But she's only 2 years younger than Sansa, so if Sansa is 13-14, Arya must be about 11 and 12. She's is about to experience her flowering soon and embrace her womanhood and sexuality in some way. We saw the hints in Mercy chapter. So the sexually infused language could be a part of Arya's future storyline too

Yes!  Arya is in a really dark place right now.  Being younger she had even less learning about becoming a woman than Sansa.  From the Mercy chapter it seems like she may be mimicking behavior she's seen prostitutes use to entice customers.  She's dawning on a critical age and her experience with most men has been violent and perverse and that can really skew a person's baseline for normal.  I think however, there was a little subconscious attraction to Gendry, but she was too young to process it and romantic things just seemed like stupid Sansa-like stuff and she wasn't having it.  Using her sexuality as a weapon is very Cersei -esque thing to do and that makes me really worried for her.  The guy she killed was a pedo, so no sympathy for him, just what it's doing to Arya's psyche.  Sansa was thought her first period would be more "magical."  I'm not sure how Arya would react.  A menstrual cycle is a reminder of womanhood and possibilities of motherhood, home, family -- something she's been insisting she doesn't need.  

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Since we had already referenced the snowcastle scene before, I'd like to come back to it to add this layer of possible meaning.  The passages of Sansa going out alone on a snowy morning to an untouched, virginal white and grey world are some of the most beautifully written in her POV chapters.  It's the last chapter in ACOK before the epilogue.  Sansa awakes from a dream of being little again sharing a bedroom with her sister.  It was a dream of home.

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When she opened the door to the garden, it was so lovely that she held her breath, unwilling to disturb such perfect beauty.  The snow drifted down and down, all in ghostly silence, and lay thick and unbroken on the ground...  She could feel the snow on her lashes, taste it on her lips.  It was the taste of Winterfell. The taste of innocence.  The taste of dreams.

There's a symbolic cherishing here of innocence and being untouched, and unbroken.  Sansa draws strength from it, but her innocence and maidenhood is also what makes her attractive to Petyr.  As dawn rolls in, her private moment is "stolen like a thief" as the servants come around to look at her and even Lysa gazes down upon her.  It's Petyr that's the first person to intrude on the scene and making some sexual double entendre as an intro after Sansa is having some trouble keeping her snow bridges from collapsing:

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"Pack the snow around the stick, Sansa"

She did not know how long he had been watching her, or when he had returned from the Vale.  "A stick?" she asked.

"That will give it strength enough to stand, I'd think,"  Petyr said. "May I come into your castle, my lady?"  

Sansa was wary.  "Don't break it.  Be..."

"... gentle?"  He smiled.  

 So we have a triangle of the GoHH prophecy of the giant in the castle made of snow, Sansa building her snow castle alone, but the scene is first intruded upon by Petyr straddling the walls of Winterfell and he makes some pretty sexually suggestive comments about having Sansa's virginity, and Arya's chapter referencing the Titan stepping over the walls of Winterfell with tons of sexual imagery as the Titan's daughter goes between his legs.  Again, if she's kneeling down in the snow, and he comes upon her, he is positioned standing above her at least at first.  This is also the scene that will result in the first non-consensual kiss Petyr plants on her that results in the disaster of Lysa's murderous, crazy rage.  I'd like to also point out that although Petyr has told her to be fully in the Alayne identity and only Lysa would know she is Sansa, he immediately calls her "Sansa" out in the open with servants about.  That's a little hint he can get thrown off his game when he's lusting after her.       

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11 hours ago, Blue-Eyed Wolf said:

@Dorian Martell  Could you please refrain from posting if you aren't going to enter a constructive conversation.  Half this board would come to a screeching halt if we couldn't discuss foreshadowing ideas based on details given in a prophecy that already exists in print.  But if you think I'm wrong or have alternate ideas please do post and give your reasons. 

It actually is surprising that a little girl, even an ugly one, can go around without protection and not get taken advantage of in that time period.  However, I don't think she will get assaulted like that.  She will likely die in the riverlands trying to cross off a name on her list.  

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12 hours ago, Blue-Eyed Wolf said:

She may not even initially believe everything about LF unless the source of that information has earned her trust or has concrete proof.

Initially I though that it could be Varys, Jaime (as a part of his redemption arc) or Sandor Clegane. But there are no indications that their ways will cross anytime soon.

12 hours ago, Blue-Eyed Wolf said:

Sansa was thought her first period would be more "magical."  I'm not sure how Arya would react.  A menstrual cycle is a reminder of womanhood and possibilities of motherhood, home, family -- something she's been insisting she doesn't need.  

For Sansa in AGOT her first period meant beginning of her adult life, where her dreams of wedding and becoming a queen would come true. Though in reality it was nothing like this.

Arya's age used to protect her from sexual assualt during her travels and helped to hide her identity disguised as a boy. Besides that adults pay less attention to random kids running around. This wouldn't be possible for a teenage girl visibly developing to a woman (that's why I think Sansa was 100%right not to go with Sandor after BotBwB). And of course, becoming a woman means facing certain gender expectations and objectification, which Arya happily avoided in her childhood, but they aren't easyly shed in Westerosi patriarchal society.

12 hours ago, Blue-Eyed Wolf said:

Using her sexuality as a weapon is very Cersei -esque thing to do and that makes me really worried for her.

It's interesting that you mentioned Cersei. Because Cersei is the one who hates her sex and despises other women. But nevertheless she uses it when needed.

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