GRRM's Subverted Fairy Tales

[Fire Eater]

GRRM as many know has a habit of subverting tropes. This thread looks at all the tales he is subverting in the series:

The Imprisoned Maiden in a Tower- Lyanna

In a number of stories their are heroes out to rescue a maiden who is kidnapped and kept prisoner, usually in a tower, by some tyrant or villain, and it is usually guarded by beasts or evil guardsmen. In Lyanna's case, the maiden was kept in the tower for her own safety from Aerys, and she chose to go with Rhaegar out of her own free will. The tower is also guarded the Whent, Hightower and Dayne of the KG who were honorable men only trying to do their duty and protect their king.   

Other variant: Father Imprisons Princess in the Tower- Arianne

In many stories from Rapunzel all the way to Perseus's mother, a girl is kept in a tower by her parent, usually her father, to be kept away from suitors. Arianne's father, Doran, tried to keep her away from suitors and he locked her in a tower. We later learn that he kept her from suitors because he betrothed her to Viserys in secret, and he had a justifiable reason for locking her in a tower as she had committed treason. 

Snow White and the Seven Dwarves- Sansa

Snow White follows a princess who runs from an evil queen mother figure and finds shelter with the eponymous dwarves after a huntsman refused to kill her and she is kissed awake by a prince after eating a poisoned apple. Sansa's name means "apple" which plays a key role in Snow White's story, and some have argued symbolizes the character's budding sexuality. Sansa hides a from an evil queen, Cersei, who served as a kind of mother figure by sheltering with a man of small stature, Littlefinger. Of course, she proves to be no safer with Littlefinger than with Joffrey with his sexual advances. Instead of a prince who lives happily ever after with her, he abuses her and the "unkiss" mentioned is for Sandor in place of the huntsman.

Little Red Riding Hood-Arya

The story follows a young girl is pursued and endangered by a wolf. In TWoW Mercy,the young girl Arya is the wolf as per her sigil, and she kills the man pursuing her. 

Beauty and the Beast- Brienne and Jaime

Beauty and the Beast follows a beautiful young woman who falls for a physically ugly beast and helps him turn into a handsome man. In this case with Brienne and Jaime, it is reversed. Brienne's sobriquet is "the Beauty," but it is a mocking name. While Brienne is physically ugly, she is beautiful on the inside while Jaime is physically beautiful but ugly on the inside. Jaime is a beast not by appearance, but by personality. His time together with her helped to transform him into a better person. 

Cinderella- Falia Flowers

Cinderella is about a beautiful young woman is made a servant by her father's wife and her daughters, but manages to fall for someone of royalty who rescues her from that life.  Falia is Lord Hewett's bastard daughter that is made a servant by his wife and daughters. Given from what we have seen of how bastards are treated in Westeros, i would call her case unusual. She catches the eye of King Euron who promises to make her his mistress, and she has the Lady Hewett and her daughters strip naked while serving the Ironborn.

Euron later cuts out her tongue, and has her chained naked (while pregnant with his child) to a prow.

Robin Hood and his Merry Men- The Kingswood Brotherhood

The story of Robin Hood follows a dispossessed nobleman who is also a skilled archer who shelters in Sherwood Forest with his band of Merry Men. He has a ban of bandits who take from the rich and give to the poor. They are pursued by the corrupt Sheriff of Nottingham and Sir Guy of Gisbourne, who was hired to kill Robin Hood and was killed himself in their fight. The Kingswood Brotherhood shelters in the kingswood (well, duh!), and they steal from people such as Princess Elia Martell, with the forest folk of the wood looking to them for protection of their rights. They are led by the dispossessed nobleman, Simon Toyne. In place of pure Maid Marion, there is Wenda the White Fawn who branded highborn captives on their buttocks. There is Big Belly Ben in place of Little John and Fletcher Dick as Robin Hood the skilled archer. In place of the skilled swordsman of the band, Will Scarlet, we have the Smiling Knight whom Jaime described as "a madman, all cruelty and chivalry jumbled up together." The men who pursue them in place of the hired killer, Guy of Gisbourne, are the Barristan the Bold, the man who slays Toyne, and in place of the Sheriff of Nottingham, Arthur Dayne, who won over the forest folk by taking their grievances to the king and expanding their rights and privileges. Both of whom are honorable men of moral character as opposed to the people in the Kingswood Brotherhood which was made up of bandits, murderers and kidnappers.  

[Daena the Defiant]

18 minutes ago, Fire Eater said:

Cinderella- Falia Flowers

Cinderella is about a beautiful young woman is made a servant by her father's wife and her daughters, but manages to fall for someone of royalty who rescues her from that life.  Falia is Lord Hewett's bastard daughter that is made a servant by his wife and daughters. Given from what we have seen of how bastards are treated in Westeros, i would call her case unusual. She catches the eye of King Euron who promises to make her his mistress, and she has the Lady Hewett and her daughters strip naked while serving the Ironborn.

[Daena the Defiant]

For some reason, I am having trouble with the edit function - however, there are some versions of the Cinderella story where she has the stepsisters put to death upon her marriage to the prince. 

[Byfort of Corfe]

And of course, while not really a "Fairy Tale" per se we have King Arthur, where a young Prince is taken as a baby and given to someone to foster for his own protection.  This can fit Aegon (if he's real) or Jon (if he is the product of R+L.

[Fire Eater]

29 minutes ago, Byfort of Corfe said:

And of course, while not really a "Fairy Tale" per se we have King Arthur, where a young Prince is taken as a baby and given to someone to foster for his own protection.  This can fit Aegon (if he's real) or Jon (if he is the product of R+L.

That is hinted at in the ToJ scene where Dawn's description matches that of Excalibur wielded by a man of the same name. The Pendragon sigil was a red dragon like the Targaryen's. Arthur's mother died from the complications of his birth, and grows up ignorant of his royal heritage until his late teens being raised as the bastard son of his foster father.  

39 minutes ago, Daena the Defiant said:

For some reason, I am having trouble with the edit function - however, there are some versions of the Cinderella story where she has the stepsisters put to death upon her marriage to the prince. 

And in another version the step mother is forced to dance in red hot iron shoes. Either way, the stepmother and her daughters get their comeuppance. 

[ShadowCat Rivers]

Nice thread!

Not only subverts, but often uses / refers to well known classic fairy tales to make a point.

For examble, to add one, there is Cersei and the prophecy of the younger, more beautiful queen pointing to the evil stepmother and her mirror. It's not a subversion, it's more or less played straight, inevitability and all, but he's also added (as per my reading) the element of the self-fulfilling prophecy.

 

Oh, and some self promotion 

 

[Seams]

What about a nursery rhyme? The fate of Humpty Dumpty leads me to fear for fAegon. I believe he really is Rhaegar's Aegon - on my most recent re-read, I noticed that we are introduced to him while he wears a floppy straw hat and that is a detail that seems too perfect to be anything but a stamp of authenticity.

Like his namesake, Aegon would be called Egg by those who are close to him.

We are constantly being told that the baby who was thought to be Elia Martell's infant had his head or brains dashed against a wall.

So I fear that Aegon will make his way to the north, sit on the Wall, and have a great fall from which he will not recover, in spite of the best efforts of all the king's horses and all the king's men.

On the other hand, if you are right about GRRM subverting tropes, maybe Aegon will survive in some way shape or form.

 

 

[Cridefea]

Not a subverted fairytale but a reference could be Tyrion's wisdom: the youngest or the smallest brother got power/fortune/riches thanks to his wits (Puss in boots, Little Thumbling, The three feathers, etc.)

[Vaedys Targaryen]

3 hours ago, Fire Eater said:

Cinderella- Falia Flowers

Cinderella is about a beautiful young woman is made a servant by her father's wife and her daughters, but manages to fall for someone of royalty who rescues her from that life.  Falia is Lord Hewett's bastard daughter that is made a servant by his wife and daughters. Given from what we have seen of how bastards are treated in Westeros, i would call her case unusual. She catches the eye of King Euron who promises to make her his mistress, and she has the Lady Hewett and her daughters strip naked while serving the Ironborn.

  Reveal hidden contents

Euron later cuts out her tongue, and has her chained naked (while pregnant with his child) to a prow.

 

I actually noticed this when I was thinking about her specifically a while ago:

I was wondering why she would betray her father the way she did and make her stepmother and stepsisters be stripped naked and raped by the Ironborn, until I realised that she was a bastard; her stepmother and stepsisters treated her badly and her father did nothing about it, which made her resent them and wanting revenge for the mistreatment she received.

[Fire Eater]

3 hours ago, Seams said:

What about a nursery rhyme? The fate of Humpty Dumpty leads me to fear for fAegon. I believe he really is Rhaegar's Aegon - on my most recent re-read, I noticed that we are introduced to him while he wears a floppy straw hat and that is a detail that seems too perfect to be anything but a stamp of authenticity.

Like his namesake, Aegon would be called Egg by those who are close to him.

We are constantly being told that the baby who was thought to be Elia Martell's infant had his head or brains dashed against a wall.

So I fear that Aegon will make his way to the north, sit on the Wall, and have a great fall from which he will not recover, in spite of the best efforts of all the king's horses and all the king's men.

On the other hand, if you are right about GRRM subverting tropes, maybe Aegon will survive in some way shape or form.

 

 

I think fAegon is definitely fake, and I am focusing on what is current in the series, not speculation. Aegon is a subversion of the hidden king trope. 

 

3 hours ago, ShadowCat Rivers said:

Nice thread!

Not only subverts, but often uses / refers to well known classic fairy tales to make a point.

For examble, to add one, there is Cersei and the prophecy of the younger, more beautiful queen pointing to the evil stepmother and her mirror. It's not a subversion, it's more or less played straight, inevitability and all, but he's also added (as per my reading) the element of the self-fulfilling prophecy.

 

Oh, and some self promotion 

 

To tell you the truth, I missed the angle of the Queen being told she would be outdone by one younger and more beautiful, which is the cause of conflict.  

1 hour ago, Vaedys Targaryen said:

I actually noticed this when I was thinking about her specifically a while ago:

I was wondering why she would betray her father the way she did and make her stepmother and stepsisters be stripped naked and raped by the Ironborn, until I realised that she was a bastard; her stepmother and stepsisters treated her badly and her father did nothing about it, which made her resent them and wanting revenge for the mistreatment she received.

Yeah, the way Cat treats Jon makes for a good reference for how bastards would be treated by their fathers' wives. To the wives they are living reminders of their husbands' infidelity, and can be seen as competition for their own children. We see bastard sons in Westeros raised similarly to trueborn children in that they are trained at arms and raised to knighthood. So, I would imagine bastard daughters to be given treatment similar to their trueborn half-sisters in that they would be taught in arts typical for highborn women like sewing, music, etc, and their fathers would be expected to arrange matches for them. Falia's case would possibly unusual in that regard in that she is raised to be a servant with no highborn instruction and her father likely not making any matches for her. Lady Hewett's daughters would likely take their cue from their mother, and emulate her treatment of Falia.  

[The Fattest Leech]

A couple of months back I wrote about a link to Bran and Pinocchio. It has been a while since I looked at it, so it may need some widdling to get it just right, but I think this fits what you are looking for. 

 

[Joy Hill]

I agree with the Snow White/Sansa parallel, and I'd add that Jaime is the huntsman. He originally does the evil queen's bidding (he hunts down Arya), then secretly works against her by sending Brienne to find Sansa and keep her safe.

[a black swan]

10 hours ago, ShadowCat Rivers said:

Nice thread!

Not only subverts, but often uses / refers to well known classic fairy tales to make a point.

 

Indeed!

@sweetsunray Ugly Duckling analysis on Arya is absolutely great and worth reading: 

GRRM's continued swan theme for Arya goes deeper with the Swan Lake motif. A compilation of the Swan Lake references to Arya's story are fascinating:

 

 

[Ashes Of Westeros]

13 hours ago, Fire Eater said:

Snow White and the Seven Dwarves- Sansa

This is kind of new to me, though I miss other dwarfs (could Tyrion be one of them? Or the Mountain Clans?)

@Le Cygne analyzed parallels between Sansa and Sandor and Beauty and the Beast in different threads. You might find them interesting.

As far as I know, GRRM is a big fan of this fairytale, so we can find parallels in several storylines. Sansa/Sandor would be a classic retelling, while Jaime/Brienne would be an inverted one.

[Fire Eater]

On 9/5/2016 at 5:46 AM, Ashes Of Westeros said:

This is kind of new to me, though I miss other dwarfs (could Tyrion be one of them? Or the Mountain Clans?)

@Le Cygne analyzed parallels between Sansa and Sandor and Beauty and the Beast in different threads. You might find them interesting.

As far as I know, GRRM is a big fan of this fairytale, so we can find parallels in several storylines. Sansa/Sandor would be a classic retelling, while Jaime/Brienne would be an inverted one.

I have considered Tyrion given he is an actual dwarf who helps Sansa out in one incident.

I saw their analyses regarding Sandor and Sansa. I was going for the subverting of the trope. I think Sandor and Sansa's story will end similar to  Disney's Beauty and the Beast only if the Beast didn't have a magical healing transformation scene. 

Update:

Princess in the Tower v.3: Val

Val is called the "wildling princess," and is kept in a tower as a prisoner being guarded by a giant. However, the knight who wishes for her hand, Ser Patrek of King's Mountain, comes to her in her tower to steal her away is killed by the creature guarding it rather than him slaying the guardian, and Wun Wun was acting in self-defense to Ser Patrek's unprovoked assault. 

A Knight's Quest: Quentyn 

Quentyn goes on a quest to win the hand of a beautiful princess and bring her back to his kingdom. The tale usually has the knight going on several adventures while in Quentyn's case, the whole thing is a disaster from start to finish. He loses several friends to a pirate attack when sailing to Essos. He joins a sellsword company to get to her, and witnesses horrors at Astapor. When the knight reaches the maiden, she is usually taken by him. When Quentyn finally reaches Dany, not only does she not find him attractive, but she refuses his offer and marries someone else. Some versions have a knight performing a task to win the hand of his lady. Quentyn'ss story ends with him dying horribly after a foolhardy attempt to mount a dragon to win Dany.

Geek Turned Superhero/Underdog: Varamyr

This is a tale that stretches from Theseus all the way to Spider-man and Captain America. It follows a small, weak boy who acquires a superpower that gives him strength. The underdog uses his powers to fight monsters and in the case of Spider-man and Captain America, uses them to protect people and fight evil. Varamyr was a small, weak man who when he first realized his powers used them to kill his brother, later his mentor Haggon, who practically raised him, and abduct women to rape. Varamyr didn't use his abilities for the greater good, but used them to terrorize others and satisfy his own selfish desires.   

[Ellenandrew]

When thinking about possible Beauty and the Beast situations in asoiaf, apart from Brienne and Jaime and Sansa and Sandor, I don't know why, but I also think about Sansa and Tyrion. He's considered to look horrible in that universe, but he was always kind to Sansa. In the classic story, that kindness wins over the princess, but in this book, it does not. The situation is always awkward to say the least between them and sometimes, the young princess IS interested in looks. 

[Isobel Harper]

On 9/4/2016 at 3:38 PM, Byfort of Corfe said:

And of course, while not really a "Fairy Tale" per se we have King Arthur, where a young Prince is taken as a baby and given to someone to foster for his own protection.  This can fit Aegon (if he's real) or Jon (if he is the product of R+L.

We also have a Lancelot/Guinevere echo in the characters Aemon/Naerys and Jaime/Cersei.  

 

On 9/4/2016 at 5:00 PM, Seams said:

What about a nursery rhyme? The fate of Humpty Dumpty leads me to fear for fAegon. I believe he really is Rhaegar's Aegon - on my most recent re-read, I noticed that we are introduced to him while he wears a floppy straw hat and that is a detail that seems too perfect to be anything but a stamp of authenticity.

I agree!  

On 9/4/2016 at 5:00 PM, Seams said:

Like his namesake, Aegon would be called Egg by those who are close to him.

We are constantly being told that the baby who was thought to be Elia Martell's infant had his head or brains dashed against a wall.

So I fear that Aegon will make his way to the north, sit on the Wall, and have a great fall from which he will not recover, in spite of the best efforts of all the king's horses and all the king's men.

On the other hand, if you are right about GRRM subverting tropes, maybe Aegon will survive in some way shape or form.

I feel that no one will truly believe that Young Griff is truly Aegon,  That is, no matter what JonCon does, he won't be able to save Aegon from his "falling against a wall" as a baby.

An dragon born being (i.e. egg "cracking") at Whitewalls in TMK could be seen as an inversion of Humpty Dumpty.  Humpty Dumpty doesn't die, but is rather (re)born in a way.

On 9/24/2016 at 7:25 PM, Fire Eater said:

I have considered Tyrion given he is an actual dwarf who helps Sansa out in one incident.

I saw their analyses regarding Sandor and Sansa. I was going for the subverting of the trope. I think Sandor and Sansa's story will end similar to  Disney's Beauty and the Beast only if the Beast didn't have a magical healing transformation scene.  

In Jean Cocteau's Beauty and the Beast, when Beast is transformed, he doesn't regain his original face, but someone else's.  (Beauty was in love with someone else at the beginning of the story before meeting Beast; it was him that Beast transformed into.)  With the Hound's helmet being passed around, methinks that the "Hound reborn" that Sansa falls in love with won't truly be Sandor Clegane, but someone that ultimately ends up with his helmet.  

Speaking of the Hound, there's a Three Little Bears motif going on with the men who occupy Sansa's thoughts.  Loras is the "perfect knight" but is only coldly courteous to her in conversation.  The Hound wants her, but his masculinity is too "hot," too overwelming for her.   Minor WoW spoiler: 

Spoiler

Joffrey and Tyrion are absolutes that Sansa compares Harry the Heir against.

That is, some men are too cold, some men are too hot.  Sansa is looking for someone who is "just right."  She hasn't met this man yet.  In truth, I rather like the idea of us not having met this man either, with this man not making an appearance until her very last chapter of the very last book.  

The Goose Girl reminds me of Sansa's arch as well.  Few people are familiar with The Goose Girl, so here's a summary:

The Goose Girl is a princess on her way to meet a prince to whom she is engaged.  En route, the Goose Girl drinks from a river.  When doing so, she loses her magic necklace, which is supposed to guard her from harm.  (In some versions, the necklace is a magic talisman.  In others, the necklace has a locket containing a cloth with three drops of her mother's blood inside.)  With the magic necklace gone, the Goose Girl's jealous handmaiden takes advantage of the situation and coerces her to switch identities.  When their party arrives to the prince's kingdom, the jealous handmaiden has the magic horse Falada, who has the power to speak, beheaded so that he will not reveal the truth of who the Goose Girl truly is.  Falada can still speak after being beheaded, but he only says "how sad" it is that he's died.  The Goose Girl tends to the livestock (specifically the geese, hence the title of the story) while the handmaiden awaits the day to marry the prince.  One day, someone notices the Goose Girl behaving strangely.  (A boy wants to steal some of the Goose Girl's beautiful golden hair while she's combing it.  The wind magically blows his hat away every time he approaches her.  The boy finds this odd and reports it to the king.)  The Goose Girl is brought to the king to answer for this strange occurrence.  She is put inside an iron stove and reveals everything.   The jealous handmaiden is executed, and the Goose Girl assumes her true identity and marries the prince.  

The Goose Girl is a subversion of the typical fairy tale.  In fairy tales, the hero often uses magic to aid them in their quest.  In The Goose Girl, the maiden-hero must discover self agency to free herself from her "capture" specifically without using magic, just like Sansa!  In fact, the only magic being in the story doesn't only not help the Goose Girl but in fact holds her back.  Falada only offers pity and more sadness when he repeats "how said" things have become.  Sansa loses her "magic guard" next to a river: Lady is executed for the fight occurring between Arya and Joffrey next to the Red Fork.  LF is an echo to the jealous handmaiden for the role he plays in Ned's beheading and for later making Sansa assume the identity of someone common (Alayne Stone).  Jeyne Poole is an echo of the jealous handmaiden as well, although she later assumes Arya's identity.  The iron stove that the Goose Girl is put inside prevents her from being harmed by magic, but also prevents her from using magic.  That is, when the Goose Girl reveals her story within the stove, she can only use the power of speech.  Similarly, Sansa has learned to guard herself with speech, using etiquette and courtesy instead of Lady to protect her.

[John Doe]

As many threads by Fireeater, there are many assumptions without evidence. It's no problem for me though 

[omegaxx]

On 9/4/2016 at 2:41 PM, ShadowCat Rivers said:

For examble, to add one, there is Cersei and the prophecy of the younger, more beautiful queen pointing to the evil stepmother and her mirror. It's not a subversion, it's more or less played straight, inevitability and all, but he's also added (as per my reading) the element of the self-fulfilling prophecy.

 

I was just thinking earlier today how parts of Cersei fit very well with the trope of the evil stepmother, not only in the prophecy, but also in her relationship to Sansa (who essentially loses her real mother upon leaving Winterfell). Oddly enough Cersei may have a greater influence in Sansa's development than Catelyn has: for all I can tell textually, Catelyn is a busy mother and Sansa is mostly educated by Septa Morgane who teaches her to be a beautiful lady. It is Cersei who teaches her the ultimate purpose of being a beautiful lady: to use the best weapon between her legs.

[ShadowCat Rivers]

^Right. I don't necessarily agree on your assessement of Sansa-Catelyn relationship, but whatever it was it belongs to the pre-history of the narrative, ended without pending consequenses in the present that need to be resolved (contrary to Arya-Catelyn relationship, but that's a different story alltogether).

Cersei and Sansa, though, yes, Cersei is very much the evil stepmothervin Sansa's story and that's why it would be so neat if Sansa was an impersonation of the "younger, more beautiful" female in Cersei's story.