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Theon really a eunuch?


Vaedys Targaryen

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I'm sorry if this comes off as stupid, but I would like a little confirmation:

In the show it is confirmed that Theon has his penis cut off, but the books have not confirmed it. Is Theon really a eunuch? And if so, what's going to happen to house Greyjoy, since he is Balon's only living son and chances of Euron, Victarion and Aeron surviving to give a legitimate heir differ based on people you ask.

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The daughter of the ship's captain was probably pregnant after Theon slept with her on the trip back to Pyke. If some king legitimizes that baby, it could be Theon's heir.

If the Greyjoy bloodline needs to be continued, though, Asha might be the better bet. At the meal where she humiliates Theon in front of the gathered Ironborn, she jokes about a dirk (small dagger) being her "suckling babe" and an axe being her husband. That scene may foreshadow true "Ironborn" offspring coming from Asha's line.

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He has only taken toes and fingers and that other thing, when he might have had my tongue, or peeled the skin off my legs from heel to thigh.

-

"Reek, get over here. Get her ready for me."

For a moment he did not understand. "I … do you mean … m'lord, I have no … I …"

Plus, eunuchs have trouble controlling their urine and had a reputation for stinking, which would explain why Theon smells bad all the time.

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Yes. It's true. In the immortal words of Peter Venkman: "This man has no dick."

I suspect there will probably be a contingent of people who will come forward to say it is not for certain , these people will no doubt be Theon fans.

The Jeyne pool honeymoon scene should be enough, but if you want a bit extra in the way of confirmation..

Spoiler

I know the show is different, (so you can take this with a grain of salt,) but the episode that confirms his castration was written by GRRM himself.

What I want to know is, did Ramsay flay it? Or just...you know... snip..?

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2 hours ago, The Drunkard said:

He has only taken toes and fingers and that other thing, when he might have had my tongue, or peeled the skin off my legs from heel to thigh.

-

"Reek, get over here. Get her ready for me."

For a moment he did not understand. "I … do you mean … m'lord, I have no … I …"

Plus, eunuchs have trouble controlling their urine and had a reputation for stinking, which would explain why Theon smells bad all the time.

Theon smells because he is forbidden to wash and change his clothes and lives in the dungeons covered of dirt, vomit, blood and feces. Or in the kennels with the bitches.

While I admit that the part "and that other thing" is very ambiguous, I'll never get why people take the wedding night as a proof of the supposed emasculation. Ramsay asks him to "prepare" his wife because she's not wet, and nobody - least of all a man with a lot of sexual experience like Theon - prepares a woman sticking his dick into her (sorry for the bluntness).
I think Theon is talking about the first night right, mentioned by Ramsay shortly before
" Ramsay smiled his wet smile. "Does she make your cock hard, Reek? Is it straining against your laces? Would you like to fuck her first?" He laughed. "The Prince of Winterfell should have that right, as all lords did in days of old. The first night. But you're no lord, are you? Only Reek. Not even a man, truth be told ".
(Ramsay had the perfect timing for a humiliating joke about the lack of the cock btw, and yet...)
Moreover, this scene in ADWD mirrors  another one  involving Theon and oral sex, but now the parts are inverted:
"When he raised his head from her breast, the skin was dark red where his mouth had marked her. "It would please me to teach you something new. Unlace me and pleasure me with your mouth."
"With my mouth?"
His thumb brushed lightly over her full lips. "It's what those lips were made for, sweetling. If you were my salt wife, you'd do as I command." (ACOK, Theon I)

And please, if he has been emasculated, please explain to me this particular part :

" He wanted to hit her, to smash that mocking smile off her face. He wanted to kiss her, to fuck her right there on the table and make her cry his name. But he knew he dare not touch her, in anger or in lust. Reek, Reek, my name is Reek. I must not forget my name. "

He thinks that he doesn't dare, not that he can't because he hasn't his "equipment".
There are a lot of reasons that make me doubt about the emasculation, for example Theon rides without particular pain, and above all, chopping a cock  off is a very risky practice if done incorrectly  and needs a lot of care (and Rams is a sadistic psycho not a maester), and Theon lives in very unsanitary conditions (understatement of the century).

Oh and people who say that the confirmation was given because GRRM wrote the episode in which Theon has been emasculated, well, in the DVD commentary he denies having written those torture scenes involving Theon and Ramsay, he explicitly says that "it's 100% Dave and Dan's work, I watched it for the first time when the episode was broadcast"

I don't say that nothing happened down there, but imho it's wrong to say that it definitely happened, at least now.

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56 minutes ago, Anirbas said:

Theon smells because he is forbidden to wash and change his clothes and lives in the dungeons covered of dirt, vomit, blood and feces. Or in the chennels with the bitches.

While I admit that the part "and that other thing" is very ambiguous, I'll never get why people take the wedding night as a proof of the supposed emasculation. Ramsay asks him to "prepare" his wife because she's not wet, and nobody - least of all a man with a lot of sexual experience like Theon - prepares a woman sticking his dick into her (sorry for the bluntness).
I think Theon is talking about the first night right, mentioned by Ramsay shortly before
" Ramsay smiled his wet smile. "Does she make your cock hard, Reek? Is it straining against your laces? Would you like to fuck her first?" He laughed. "The Prince of Winterfell should have that right, as all lords did in days of old. The first night. But you're no lord, are you? Only Reek. Not even a man, truth be told ".
(Ramsay had the perfect timing for a humiliating joke about the lack of the cock btw, and yet...)
Moreover, this scene in ADWD mirrors  another one  involving Theon and oral sex, but now the parts are inverted:
"When he raised his head from her breast, the skin was dark red where his mouth had marked her. "It would please me to teach you something new. Unlace me and pleasure me with your mouth."
"With my mouth?"
His thumb brushed lightly over her full lips. "It's what those lips were made for, sweetling. If you were my salt wife, you'd do as I command." (ACOK, Theon I)

And please, if he has been emasculated, please explain to me this particular part :

" He wanted to hit her, to smash that mocking smile off her face. He wanted to kiss her, to fuck her right there on the table and make her cry his name. But he knew he dare not touch her, in anger or in lust. Reek, Reek, my name is Reek. I must not forget my name. "

He thinks that he doesn't dare, not that he can't because he hasn't his "equipment".
There are a lot of reasons that make me doubt about the emasculation, for example Theon rides without particular pain, and above all, chopping a cock  off is a very risky practice if done incorrectly  and needs a lot of care (and Rams is a sadistic psycho not a maester), and Theon lives in very unsanitary conditions (understatement of the century).

Oh and people who say that the confirmation was given because GRRM wrote the episode in which Theon has been emasculated, well, in the DVD commentary he denies having written those torture scenes involving Theon and Ramsay, he explicitly says that "it's 100% Dave and Dan's work, I watched it for the first time when the episode was broadcast"

I don't say that nothing happened down there, but imho it's wrong to say that it definitely happened, at least now.

Agreed, a lot of the things people use as evidence don't necessarily make sense when you think about it, this is the explanation I've always liked: http://emiliosandoz.tumblr.com/post/91408667498/why-booktheon-still-has-his-dick-and-what-it

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52 minutes ago, Anirbas said:

While I admit that the part "and that other thing" is very ambiguous, I'll never get why people take the wedding night as a proof of the supposed emasculation. Ramsay asks him to "prepare" his wife because she's not wet, and nobody - least of all a man with a lot of sexual experience like Theon - prepares a woman sticking his dick into her (sorry for the bluntness).

The point is that when refusing he tries to say he doesn't have something associated with sex, and "that other thing" is pretty damning. I've never seen a sensible alternative to his penis.

Quote

And please, if he has been emasculated, please explain to me this particular part :

" He wanted to hit her, to smash that mocking smile off her face. He wanted to kiss her, to fuck her right there on the table and make her cry his name. But he knew he dare not touch her, in anger or in lust. Reek, Reek, my name is Reek. I must not forget my name. "

He thinks that he doesn't dare, not that he can't because he hasn't his "equipment".

 

It's not a statement on his capability. He dare not take any enjoyment out of touching/hurting her lest Ramsay punish him for it, and he doesn't need a penis to touch/hurt her.

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17 minutes ago, The Drunkard said:

The point is that when refusing he tries to say he doesn't have something associated with sex, and "that other thing" is pretty damning. I've never seen a sensible alternative to his penis.

Where is it stated that he tries to say he doesn't have something associated with sex? And again, why does a (former) ladykiller like Theon think that he have to make Jeyne wet with his dick?
A few chapters later the Bastard's Boys mock him because he dared to touch Ramsay's wife with his lips:

"Lord Ramsay means to cut your lips off when all this is done," said Damon, stroking his whip with a greasy rag. My lips have been between his lady's legs. That insolence cannot go unpunished. "As you say."

Theon knows that it's another ramsay's trap: he knows he doesn't have the first night right mentioned by Ramsay and that he'll be punished for that.

 

17 minutes ago, The Drunkard said:

It's not a statement on his capability. He dare not take any enjoyment out of touching/hurting her lest Ramsay punish him for it, and he doesn't need a penis to touch/hurt her.

Yes, but he says that he wants to fuck her on the table a few lines before.

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7 hours ago, Anirbas said:

Where is it stated that he tries to say he doesn't have something associated with sex? And again, why does a (former) ladykiller like Theon think that he have to make Jeyne wet with his dick?

Read the bolded parts of the quotes I initially provided.

He has only taken toes and fingers and that other thing, when he might have had my tongue, or peeled the skin off my legs from heel to thigh.

-

"Reek, get over here. Get her ready for me."

For a moment he did not understand. "I … do you mean … m'lord, I have no … I …"

Yes, but he says that he wants to fuck her on the table a few lines before.

Eunuchs still have desire.

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I just reread The Prince of Winterfell Chapter and would agree with most posters that it seems he is castrated.  Are there any good Roose quotes to Theon or Ramsey that suggest either scenario? From memory it seemed Roose was mad that Ramsey ruined the heir to the iron islands, which I assume to mean that he is incapable of reproducing thus incapable being used as a consort to help the Boltons position.  

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11 hours ago, The Drunkard said:

Read the bolded parts of the quotes I initially provided.

He has only taken toes and fingers and that other thing, when he might have had my tongue, or peeled the skin off my legs from heel to thigh.

-

"Reek, get over here. Get her ready for me."

For a moment he did not understand. "I … do you mean … m'lord, I have no … I …"

 

Eunuchs still have desire.

I read those quotes ten thousand times probably, but I asked you to tell me why in the wedding night scene he's definitely trying to say that he hasn't something sex related. Ramsay mentioned about the first night right, that the Prince of Winterfell would have. (the chapter is named the Prince of Winterfell ironically)
And again Ramsay commands him to get his wife ready for sex not to fuck her: I don't know if you know what foreplay is, you don't make a woman wet sticking your dick into her (and poor Jeyne is "dry as a bone"), even a serial rapist like Ramsay Bolton knows that (he proposes the cunnilingus after all), why not Theon "I bedded more girls than I could name" Greyjoy?
You don't need a cock to make a woman sexually aroused (source: I'm a woman)


For the "that other thing" part I've already admitted that it's ambiguous, but it's also true that's very odd that Theon lists his *precious* manhood so nonchalantly with fingers and toes, and then he thinks that Ramsay could do worse:
 

Quote

"They had taught him his name, they had, they had, but it had been so long that he'd forgotten. If I say it wrong, he'll take another finger, or worse, he'll … he'll … He would not think about that, he could not think about that. There were needles in his jaw, in his eyes. His head was pounding."



He uses the future tense, so it's something that Ramsay hasn't done yet (or that he did and that he could do again, so unless Theon has more than a dick  it doesn't make sense at all. And no, he's not talking about testicles ). And it's so terrible that he can't even think about it. But what's worse for a man than losing his dick? I am genuinely curious. Moreover, when he mentions "that other thing" he's almost nonchalant. Congrats for your self-control when you think about your chopped off cock, TG.

For the spearwife part: of course eunuchs still have desire, but if he hasn't a penis, and he knows that "I have no...that other thing" he would have said that he couldn't; there's no mention of that, only that he doesn't dare because he's afraid of punishment.

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IMO opinion the author goes out of his way to heavily imply that his penis was cut off.  He didn't come out and say it because it's less impactful if he has a character just say, " hey I cut your penis off"  that's just not good writing. He wrote it the way he did for a reason. 

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