Obsidian under Winterfell?

[SisterWithoutBanners]

There has been a lot of theories concerning what's in the crypts of Winterfell, but I have not found any threads about obsidian (please link below if you have). 
- So, in the books we are told that there are hot springs beneath Winterfell, and that this is what keeps the castle warm, even in winter. And what are hot springs? Well, they are heated by the Earth's mantle. This can happen in volcanic areas, where the water is heated by magma.
- Obsidian is an ancient form of volcanic glass. In the books they seem to use both the term obsidian and dragonglass for the same thing (but I may be wrong about this). 

Do you guys think that it is possible that the hot springs stem from a vulcano - and that there may be a source of obsidian beneath Winterfell?

[Cridefea]

7 minutes ago, SisterWithoutBanners said:

There has been a lot of theories concerning what's in the crypts of Winterfell, but I have not found any threads about obsidian (please link below if you have). 
- So, in the books we are told that there are hot springs beneath Winterfell, and that this is what keeps the castle warm, even in winter. And what are hot springs? Well, they are heated by the Earth's mantle. This can happen in volcanic areas, where the water is heated by magma.
- Obsidian is an ancient form of volcanic glass. In the books they seem to use both the term obsidian and dragonglass for the same thing (but I may be wrong about this). 

Do you guys think that it is possible that the hot springs stem from a vulcano - and that there may be a source of obsidian beneath Winterfell?

I don't know if there are already theories, but I like this idea! This would be the very "song of ice and fire". Obsidian is produced when lava cools very rapidly. 

[SisterWithoutBanners]

1 minute ago, Cridefea said:

I don't know if there are already theories, but I like this idea! This would be the very "song of ice and fire". Obsidian is produced when lava cools very rapidly. 

Thank You! I think it is an interesting thought, and not so tin-foil as many of the other theories going around. 

[BricksAndSparrows]

Yeah, I like this idea a lot. Especially since there is often talk of "Dragon eggs," below Winterfell. I could see how dragon glass could become dragon eggs in a game of telephone spanning a couple hundred years. It seems like a very believable explanation for the dragon eggs story. Especially when you consider the progression of previous rumors, like the death of King Robert or Joff.

[Lost Melnibonean]

Yes. Check this short thread. 

[Lord Vance II]

I suppose it's possible, but is it enough to make an impact in the war against the Others? Maybe. 

[SisterWithoutBanners]

19 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Yes. Check this short thread. 

Ah, I really like this! Thank you!

[SisterWithoutBanners]

1 hour ago, Lord Vance II said:

I suppose it's possible, but is it enough to make an impact in the war against the Others? Maybe. 

I think it would help to have some weapons against the Wights at least. It might not be enough, but if there actually is obsidian under Winterfell, and they are able to find it, it would arm more people with a weapon that actually kills them. I know this is a lot of "what if", I just thought it would be worth a mention!

[spauldo17]

2 hours ago, Lord Vance II said:

I suppose it's possible, but is it enough to make an impact in the war against the Others? Maybe. 

It certainly could be enough.  Think about it from a logical perspective:  The only thing that we know of that kills Others are valyrian steel and obsidian.  There aren't enough valyrian blades around to outfit an army, so at some point GRRM will have to present the protagonists with a source of obsidian.  Otherwise the battle is over before it begins. 

That just leaves us with one question: where will they find all the obsidian they will need?  The Night's Watch buried some obsidian in caches but presumably not enough.  So Winterfell is as likely a place as any, especially considering the hot springs, and geographical importance in relation to the Others.  The crypts of Winterfell have long been a place of mystery and intrigue, with something down there that has been hinted at but never talked about.  Why can't it be obsidian?

[Cridefea]

6 hours ago, spauldo17 said:

It certainly could be enough.  Think about it from a logical perspective:  The only thing that we know of that kills Others are valyrian steel and obsidian.  There aren't enough valyrian blades around to outfit an army, so at some point GRRM will have to present the protagonists with a source of obsidian.  Otherwise the battle is over before it begins. 

That just leaves us with one question: where will they find all the obsidian they will need?  The Night's Watch buried some obsidian in caches but presumably not enough.  So Winterfell is as likely a place as any, especially considering the hot springs, and geographical importance in relation to the Others.  The crypts of Winterfell have long been a place of mystery and intrigue, with something down there that has been hinted at but never talked about.  Why can't it be obsidian?

[Mat92]

On 9 September 2016 at 10:36 PM, spauldo17 said:

That just leaves us with one question: where will they find all the obsidian they will need?  The Night's Watch buried some obsidian in caches but presumably not enough.  

Could you imagine if the last book was just the North trying to find hidden caches of this stuff like Harry Potter trying to find Horcruxes in time for Voldemort arriving? Haha.

Seriously though, I like this theory! Much more plausible than a dragon beneath Winterfell. 
I have no idea how George is going to give everyone a fighting chance without something randomly popping up. At least he's set up a lot of groundwork for a variety of different possibilities. And I'd want something more than just 3 dragons rocking up at the right time to save the day (which I doubt will happen so obviously).

[spauldo17]

On ‎9‎/‎11‎/‎2016 at 3:39 AM, Mat92 said:

Could you imagine if the last book was just the North trying to find hidden caches of this stuff like Harry Potter trying to find Horcruxes in time for Voldemort arriving? Haha.

Seriously though, I like this theory! Much more plausible than a dragon beneath Winterfell. 
I have no idea how George is going to give everyone a fighting chance without something randomly popping up. At least he's set up a lot of groundwork for a variety of different possibilities. And I'd want something more than just 3 dragons rocking up at the right time to save the day (which I doubt will happen so obviously).

What an anti-climactic ending, just the night's watch trading in their swords for shovels and digging up the entire north-of-the-wall area looking for obsidian...

[Mat92]

On 12 September 2016 at 8:47 PM, spauldo17 said:

What an anti-climactic ending, just the night's watch trading in their swords for shovels and digging up the entire north-of-the-wall area looking for obsidian...

Exactly haha. Even if this is remotely the case, it would be more likely that someone - Benjen? - would know where they all are and does this off-page. 

I mean, I guess if there was one, there has to be more right?

[Roose on the Loose]

Yellowstone has both Old Faithful and Obsidian Cliff.  I couldn't find a good map of obsidian sources, but I would expect it to be correlated with geothermal activity.

The bit I don't understand is how the ground below Winterfell can have both artesian hot springs and multi story crypts that aren't constantly flooded.

 

[Clegane'sPup]

On 9/9/2016 at 10:36 AM, spauldo17 said:

so at some point GRRM will have to present the protagonists with a source of obsidian.

I don’t know what is going on in the crypts of WF. I’m thinking tis sumthin rather suspicious though. Bran and his companions removed swords from the tombs which mighta let the Starks ghostesses start wandering around.

As to the obsidian/dragonglass/frozen fire, there is a stash under Dragonstone. SoS c.78  Stannis upon hearing that the obsidian kills Others/WW sends word to have his castellan start mining. Problem is I don’t know if any of that obsidian/dragonglass/frozen fire was able to leave Dragonstone before Dragonstone came under siege in FfC.

SoS c.78 "On Dragonstone, where I had my seat, there is much of this obsidian to be seen in the old tunnels beneath the mountain," the king told Sam. "Chunks of it, boulders, ledges. The great part of it was black, as I recall, but there was some green as well, some red, even purple. I have sent word to Ser Rolland my castellan to begin mining it. I will not hold Dragonstone for very much longer, I fear, but perhaps the Lord of Light shall grant us enough frozen fire to arm ourselves against these creatures, before the castle falls."

[Lurid Jester]

On September 9, 2016 at 9:03 AM, SisterWithoutBanners said:

I think it would help to have some weapons against the Wights at least. 

Normal weapons will work against the wights.  May not "kill" them but you can surely dismember the buggers. 

Also, When talking to Aemon and Stannis about the dragonglass cache he mentions striking a wight and the dagger shattering.  I think it's Aemon who says that normal weapons and fire should be good enough.

dragon glass and VS for the Others themselves. 

[Clegane'sPup]

10 minutes ago, Lurid Jester said:

Normal weapons will work against the wights.

I like your avatar. Reminds me of a mischievous prickly little bugger. 

A person can hack a wight and it somehow keeps moving. Fire,setting it on fire makes the tasty bbq.

[Lurid Jester]

3 minutes ago, Clegane'sPup said:

I like your avatar. Reminds me of a mischievous prickly little bugger. 

A person can hack a wight and it somehow keeps moving. Fire,setting it on fire makes the tasty bbq.

It was the original inspiration.

I think the idea was normal weapons, but those with a specific function. Arrows and daggers, and such are obviously out.  Heavy cleaving weapons that completely ruin the body would still be useful.  Think some big ass barbarian hacking the legs off wights while someone bats cleanup behind him. 

I think the issue is that obsidian is too brittle for anything other than weapons soecifically for the Others, and when Sam tried his dagger on the wight it did nothing but shatter. 

[SisterWithoutBanners]

On 13.9.2016 at 10:33 PM, Clegane'sPup said:

I don’t know what is going on in the crypts of WF. I’m thinking tis sumthin rather suspicious though. Bran and his companions removed swords from the tombs which mighta let the Starks ghostesses start wandering around.

As to the obsidian/dragonglass/frozen fire, there is a stash under Dragonstone. SoS c.78  Stannis upon hearing that the obsidian kills Others/WW sends word to have his castellan start mining. Problem is I don’t know if any of that obsidian/dragonglass/frozen fire was able to leave Dragonstone before Dragonstone came under siege in FfC.

SoS c.78 "On Dragonstone, where I had my seat, there is much of this obsidian to be seen in the old tunnels beneath the mountain," the king told Sam. "Chunks of it, boulders, ledges. The great part of it was black, as I recall, but there was some green as well, some red, even purple. I have sent word to Ser Rolland my castellan to begin mining it. I will not hold Dragonstone for very much longer, I fear, but perhaps the Lord of Light shall grant us enough frozen fire to arm ourselves against these creatures, before the castle falls."

Ah, I never noticed this in the books!

[SisterWithoutBanners]

On 13.9.2016 at 10:58 PM, Lurid Jester said:

It was the original inspiration.

I think the idea was normal weapons, but those with a specific function. Arrows and daggers, and such are obviously out.  Heavy cleaving weapons that completely ruin the body would still be useful.  Think some big ass barbarian hacking the legs off wights while someone bats cleanup behind him. 

I think the issue is that obsidian is too brittle for anything other than weapons soecifically for the Others, and when Sam tried his dagger on the wight it did nothing but shatter. 

I thought the chapter about Jon and the wights in the Old Bears chamber showed that normal weapons don't work against the wights?