Things Robb could have done to prevent the disaster?

[Valens]

And the Red Wedding, of course. I think he should have listened at least a little to Roose Bolton and should have not executed Rickard Karstark. Plus, he should have married Walder's daughter and just kept her at home and shagged Jeyne instead. But really, what really was the biggest and worst mistake he made to me is executing Rickard, because after all, he fought for his father in Robert's Rebellion and was willing to follow him to war against anybody. He was fiercely loyal and a brave warrior. He just was too rough on the inside and that became his undoing. But vengeance is vengeance, after all, he lost two sons to Kingslayer. Plus, Robb should have told Edmure of his plans to trap Tywin's forces so Edmure would have not defended that crossing of Red Fork. I think it was rather inevitable however that Robb would perish, because he got his "kingship" too early and he was too young to play the game of thrones. But at least he could have been murdered by Lannisters rather than people who were supposed to be his allies.

[RoamingRonin]

Return to the north after Ned was beheaded. Perhaps he should have never left at all.

[Valens]

12 minutes ago, RoamingRonin said:

Return to the north after Ned was beheaded. Perhaps he should have never left at all.

I concur. He had no business going for The Lannisters, he should have just defended his realm.

[King Ned Stark]

Put Helman Tallhart or Robett Glover in charge of his second army, and keep Theon close.  That should take care of most of it.

[Light a wight tonight]

Executing Karstark was controversial, but he had gone against his king's specific orders and had eliminated two very valuable hostages, who could have been useful in an exchange for maybe Sansa and Arya (nobody knew that Arya had escaped). Karstark had to be severely punished of Robb would have lost control of his other vassals. Sending Karstark to the Wall might have been sufficient, but it might not have.

And you have to remember that Karstark brought both his sons to the war. It's his fault that both of his heirs were killed. 

[King Ned Stark]

1 minute ago, Light a wight tonight said:

Executing Karstark was controversial, but he had gone against his king's specific orders and had eliminated two very valuable hostages, who could have been useful in an exchange for maybe Sansa and Arya (nobody knew that Arya had escaped). Karstark had to be severely punished of Robb would have lost control of his other vassals. Sending Karstark to the Wall might have been sufficient, but it might not have.

And you have to remember that Karstark brought both his sons to the war. It's his fault that both of his heirs were killed. 

I've always wondered why Karstark was not allowed to take the black, plot convenience I suppose.

[Light a wight tonight]

Just now, King Ned Stark said:

I've always wondered why Karstark was not allowed to take the black, plot convenience I suppose.

IMO, Robb needed to show the Northern lords that he wouldn't stand for this kind of thing. The example of the Greatjon not taking Robb seriously until Grey Wind took off one of his fingers may have influenced Robbs thinking there.

[Universal Sword Donor]

I'm gonna combine a bunch of excellent suggestions here:

1) Marry whichever Frey and have his sidepiece if he wants. He can't really object as his dad 'did it' (whole honor thing he prattled on about wrt Jeyne), and the result was his best friend. On top of that Walder can't really complain as he has any number of bastards and many of his heirs (Ryman, Black Walder, et al) engage in the same behavior.

2) Put Robett Glover, Halys Hornwood, or some other veteran of RR in charge of the infantry. Exclude Roose and Umber from that list for reasons we already know.

3) Don't send Theon back. IB still attack and conquer the more or less useless western edges of the North and don't take WF. Can even send a separate envoy (non-Mallister of course) to present the offer if necessary, word it as an alliance not a "put a crown on your head".

4 Keep Rickard as a hostage at RR, execute him after the war if necessary. He can be even used as a trade chip with the Lannisters as he is the one who ordered Willem and Tion murdered.

5) Keep Edumure advised on all plans, with specifics. He did a fine job defending the Fords but that's not what Robb wanted. When a general has specific strategic goals, he should give specific instructions.

I'm sure there are other things we can armchair QB.

[King Ned Stark]

4 minutes ago, Light a wight tonight said:

IMO, Robb needed to show the Northern lords that he wouldn't stand for this kind of thing. The example of the Greatjon not taking Robb seriously until Grey Wind took off one of his fingers may have influenced Robbs thinking there.

You're probably right.  It's easy to forget Robb was fifteen.  Do you think that Robb was trying to hard to be "a son of Eddard Stark" as Jon told the clansmen? Yet, it seems to me at least, that Ned is arguably the most loved and respected of all the great lords.  It's hard for me to envision a Stark, especially the Ned, not allowing any man to take the black.  I imagine that was his thoughts for Jaime and Tywin and the sack of Kings Landing fiasco.  And of all the lords', the northern ones should understand.  Even the Karstark men should understand.

[Runaway Penguin]

Returning North would leave the Riverlands open to ravaging. 

 

One thing: He should have kept Roose close by - maybe as chief of staff. 

Another, he should have told Edmure his general plan. He also should have made sure he keeps the garrison at Twins. Reinforce it because of the Ironborn.

Also... Since he tasked Manderly with keeping reserve, task him with stationing a sizable contingent at Winterfell at all times.

Obviosly he should have avoided getting involved with Jeyne, however when he did, he was in a pickle either way. He should have claimed spoils of war.

As for Karstark, hanging the "watcher" ("Here you have a man who is craven and does not own up!") and sending the rest to the Wall would also send a message.

[Bironic]

On 9.9.2016 at 9:52 PM, Universal Sword Donor said:

I'm gonna combine a bunch of excellent suggestions here:

1) Marry whichever Frey and have his sidepiece if he wants. He can't really object as his dad 'did it' (whole honor thing he prattled on about wrt Jeyne), and the result was his best friend. On top of that Walder can't really complain as he has any number of bastards and many of his heirs (Ryman, Black Walder, et al) engage in the same behavior.

2) Put Robett Glover, Halys Hornwood, or some other veteran of RR in charge of the infantry. Exclude Roose and Umber from that list for reasons we already know.

3) Don't send Theon back. IB still attack and conquer the more or less useless western edges of the North and don't take WF. Can even send a separate envoy (non-Mallister of course) to present the offer if necessary, word it as an alliance not a "put a crown on your head".

4 Keep Rickard as a hostage at RR, execute him after the war if necessary. He can be even used as a trade chip with the Lannisters as he is the one who ordered Willem and Tion murdered.

5) Keep Edumure advised on all plans, with specifics. He did a fine job defending the Fords but that's not what Robb wanted. When a general has specific strategic goals, he should give specific instructions.

I'm sure there are other things we can armchair QB.

All of this

As well as these two

6) not crowning yourself King in the North and Trident, this made all negotiations with Stannis and Renly almost impossible, also he would have never been able to hold the Trident with only the North to back him up.

7) He shouldn't have allowed the Riverlords to reclaim the Trident, this split his forces and was basically playing into Tywins hands.

[Ez Ahai]

If I'd been Rob I'd have personally executed Jaime Lannister. He had to have known his sisters were not going to be delivered on some level, Tywin would've gone mad and made some horrific mistake I'd then capitalized on.

[King Ned Stark]

59 minutes ago, Runaway Penguin said:

Returning North would leave the Riverlands open to ravaging. 

 

One thing: He should have kept Roose close by - maybe as chief of staff. 

Another, he should have told Edmure his general plan. He also should have made sure he keeps the garrison at Twins. Reinforce it because of the Ironborn.

Also... Since he tasked Manderly with keeping reserve, task him with stationing a sizable contingent at Winterfell at all times.

Obviosly he should have avoided getting involved with Jeyne, however when he did, he was in a pickle either way. He should have claimed spoils of war.

As for Karstark, hanging the "watcher" ("Here you have a man who is craven and does not own up!") and sending the rest to the Wall would also send a message.

Funny enough, if I recall correctly, Jon tells Stannis that "my father relied on Roose, but never trusted him."  If Jon knew that, one would think Robb, and Catelyn, would know that.

One could say having a Tully as a mother that he was more "southron influenced", but I call it plot convenience.

[dariopatke]

Dont allow himself to be King and wait which Baratheon brother wins. Stay at RR at follow Tywin to Blackwater and take them in the rear, this can result to either crushing defeat or heroic victory, but still better than what happened, at least they would have kind equal forces. If battle is won bend the knee to Stannis, return to home (where Bran and Rickon would still be because I would send a raven to Balon) and defeat Mance and have 30 children, he married a Frey after all, expectations are high and live peacefully. If he falls at BW... well he is a hero who tried to save his sister and avenge his father.

[Runaway Penguin]

Having him separate for the first battle kinda made sense - esp. as Bolton had enough other Northern lords with him to keep him in line. However after that he should have been recalled to Riverrun and replaced. After all, he was defeated...  Give his army to Blackfish.

Keeping Theon with him would also be important. After all given Theon's psychological state, he would be able to play the note "See? Your father takes you for dead, but you are still my friend and my brother in arms  - despite your father's wishes I shall not kill you and when we are done with Tywin, I will support your claim to the Seastone chair by force of arms if necessary!"

Hard to do anything about being King in the Nurf, but maybe he should have taken the Kingslayer with him instead of keeping him in Riverrun, esp. if he noticed the distress of his mother.

 

[dornishdragon]

Robb is a very important character because it shows that even winning every battle wars can be lost other ways (specially due to strategic and political decisions). 

Robb did mistakes after mistakes some of the more serious were the following: 

He should have taken Theon south. Trusting in a Greyjoy ward that lived his live wishing to do something important was really a bad decision. One of the major Northern lords should have stayed there guiding Bran. 

He should have not crowned himself King in the North and in the Trident. That was quite negative to his negociations with the Baratheon brothers and he should have realized that he needed atleast one of them, preferenciably Renly, to beat the Lannisters. 

He shouldn't had beheaded Rickard Karstark. The Karstarks are one of the biggest Northern forces and they have a  strong bond with the Starks so losing their support was the beginning of his downfall. Plus the man was acting out of grief he should have given him a discount, keeping him as a hostage. 

Finally the biggest error, why the hell did he marry Jeyne Westerling? Bedding a girl is no reason to marry her is just a mistake that specially on his position shouldn't have lead to another more serious mistake. A Westerland house with no significant military power is much less important than the Lord of the Trident, with his large army, specially considering that he holdes grudges and is vindictive.  

 

[Jon Fossoway]

4 hours ago, RoamingRonin said:

Return to the north after Ned was beheaded. Perhaps he should have never left at all.

The Ned was apparently very loved in the north. Robb had to march south after he was taking prisoner; he couldn't just march back when he was beheaded. As long as the Lannisters were in the Throne, an independent north would have never been secured. Some idiot northman crowned him King in the North, and at that point things went past the no-return limit.

[fenr1s]

2 hours ago, dariopatke said:

Dont allow himself to be King and wait which Baratheon brother wins. Stay at RR at follow Tywin to Blackwater and take them in the rear, this can result to either crushing defeat or heroic victory, but still better than what happened, at least they would have kind equal forces.

 

His combined strength outnumbered Tywin's army by at least 7000-10000 men after the Whispering wood.

If Robb had marched down the Kingsroad after the battle of the Whispering Wood, it would have come to a fieldbattle against Tywin in which Robb would have had superior numbers and the army with higer morale.

[RoamingRonin]

5 hours ago, Light a wight tonight said:

IMO, Robb needed to show the Northern lords that he wouldn't stand for this kind of thing. The example of the Greatjon not taking Robb seriously until Grey Wind took off one of his fingers may have influenced Robbs thinking there.

At this point Robb had married Jeyne Westerling. So it would have been possible for him to give Karstark a lighter sentence considering his own transgressions. Robb was hanging on to the last of his strength when he killed Karstark. He wasn't in the same position as he was when Greywind attacked the Greatjon.

[WSmith84]

6 hours ago, Valens said:

And the Red Wedding, of course. I think he should have listened at least a little to Roose Bolton and should have not executed Rickard Karstark.

Can you give me one instance, outside of Robb refusing Roose's request about the marching order, of Robb ignoring Roose? Because I can't think of any, but can think of several where he did listen.