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Podrick Payne?


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Nevets,

Quite re Jeyne Poole.  Presumably GRRM always had planned her role as F'Arya. That really is my point. Everyone is introduced for a reason. Podrick is one such. Why bother with his back story. Because it matters.

Like so many, many others in this story he grew up without knowing his parents - Gendry, Jon, Dany, Aegon, even Tyrion did not know his mother. The three "royal"  kids did not know their parentage either. Sweet Robin will grow up an orphan as will Rickon. Edrik Dayne - who are his father and mother.

 

The reality is that Podrick did not know his mother and has a hazy recollection of his father. He is 12 in SoS which makes him 10 when we meet him in GoT. he was living with a relative for a few years and travelling with a hedge knight, So probably since he was 7 he would know nothing of his parents. What he told Brienne would be simply what he was told. He would have no other recollection.

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11 minutes ago, Luddagain said:

Faereth

Fair point

:)

When I have time (as in after my dissertation deadline at the end of the month) I'm planning to do a whole re-read of the novels and I'm going to pay particular attention to our dear Pod. I just feel he's been a bit overlooked on this here forum and he deserves an in depth study. 

I personally don't buy into the whole Tyrion Tysha are his parents theory but he's a young squire that's been around all sorts of important conversations and events. As someone who is v quiet he's often forgotten about I really want to see collected together just exactly what he's been witness to. 

I don't feel that he will die at the hands of LSH, not even as a way to truly test/break Brienne as I think Pod is worth more as a character then to serve that function. 

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It's true Pod did a hugely significant thing by saving Tyrion, but it's also true that, plot-wise, Tyrion could have been saved by any of his men; it didn't have to be Pod (and Pod is an unlikely saviour).

So there's still a mystery over why this character has been used in this way.

Another mystery is why bother to have Pod related to Illyn Payne - so far they have nothing in common. Perhaps they both represent the King's Justice / the king's justice? Illyn does, I think - when Jaime left KL, justice departed with him - and Cersei did not have a replacement.

On the Payne arms - I've played around with a few ideas. Bronn and the Cleganes chose their arms to mark the event that elevated them in rank - the Paynes could be the same. So I first thought the gold coins might point to the Reynes' rebellion, which was about money. I even thought maybe the Paynes are Reynes who changed sides and changed their name. But on the whole, I think that was too recent, and besides, I'd like the purple to represent some royal connection. Maybe the chequy represents the Game of Thrones as a cyvasse board, with Lannister gold dominating.

A lot of maybe's with this character!

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7 hours ago, Springwatch said:

<snip

On the Payne arms - I've played around with a few ideas. Bronn and the Cleganes chose their arms to mark the event that elevated them in rank - the Paynes could be the same. So I first thought the gold coins might point to the Reynes' rebellion, which was about money. I even thought maybe the Paynes are Reynes who changed sides and changed their name. But on the whole, I think that was too recent, and besides, I'd like the purple to represent some royal connection. Maybe the chequy represents the Game of Thrones as a cyvasse board, with Lannister gold dominating.

A lot of maybe's with this character!

The Lannisters were kings once, so being descended from a Lannister (bastard or trueborn) could potentially bring that in. Also descent from any house that uses purple in their arms. I have a list somewhere. I shall check for Westerlands houses.

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23 hours ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

The Lannisters were kings once, so being descended from a Lannister (bastard or trueborn) could potentially bring that in. Also descent from any house that uses purple in their arms. I have a list somewhere. I shall check for Westerlands houses.

Hope you find something - I'm sure the colours aren't just random.

And I've been thinking again about Tywin - he really loves his Payne bannermen doesn't he? It's strange because Tywin is a tough character who doesn't show any kindness. But when King Robert has to find a gift for his bride's father - an important gift, this is a royal wedding - he knows that what would please Tywin would be a job for Illyn Payne. And then Tywin goes and forgives Pod.

So maybe the Paynes have done some great service to Tywin, and that is why he wants to reward them. And maybe that is the service that is pictured in the coat of arms.

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Ilyn Payne lost his tongue because a remark he made about Tywin being the real ruler of Westeros angered Aerys.  Tywin evidently feels he owes Ser Ilyn because of this, hence the job as King's Justice.   It has also probably made him predisposed to being generous to members of House Payne, hence his sparing of Podrick's life.

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4 hours ago, Springwatch said:

Hope you find something - I'm sure the colours aren't just random.

And I've been thinking again about Tywin - he really loves his Payne bannermen doesn't he? It's strange because Tywin is a tough character who doesn't show any kindness. But when King Robert has to find a gift for his bride's father - an important gift, this is a royal wedding - he knows that what would please Tywin would be a job for Illyn Payne. And then Tywin goes and forgives Pod.

So maybe the Paynes have done some great service to Tywin, and that is why he wants to reward them. And maybe that is the service that is pictured in the coat of arms.

I did find three for sure other than House Payne. Brax, Peckledon, and Plumm all have purple on their arms.

Brax are a mixture of First Men and Andal. Their arms are a purple unicorn on silver. Their seat is Hornvale.

Peckeldon are of unknown ancestry but that's so not a First Men name, so probably Andal or later. Their arms are ten purple stars on a field of yellow (4, 3, 2, and 1). Their word is "Unflinching." 

Plumm arms are three purple roundels (2 and 1) on a gold field. Their words are "Come Try Me."  They are First Men and Targaryen. 

It's interesting that none of the three uses purple in the field, as House Payne does, but uses it instead for the charges. I don't know if that's remotely significant. If any of the three houses are in Pod's makeup I'd say Plumm would be the most potentially game-changing because that would give him Targaryen blood. Somebody mentioned him in the thread about unlikely people to sit the IT in the end. If he's part Plumm it becomes a lot less unlikely.

Westerlands houses with unknown arms are:
Casterly of Casterly Rock
Clifton
Lannister of Lannisport
Lanny (possible Lannister offshoot)
Lantell (possible Lannister offshoot)
Sarwyck of Riverspring
Westford
 

1 hour ago, Nevets said:

Ilyn Payne lost his tongue because a remark he made about Tywin being the real ruler of Westeros angered Aerys.  Tywin evidently feels he owes Ser Ilyn because of this, hence the job as King's Justice.   It has also probably made him predisposed to being generous to members of House Payne, hence his sparing of Podrick's life.

I agree with your assessment, Nevets. Ilyn's tongue being removed was a swipe at Tywin as much as a punishment for Ilyn.

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On 14/03/2017 at 9:17 AM, Nevets said:

  And even if she was pregnant there would be no way, thanks to the rape, of knowing whose child it was.  Which, along with the punishment aspect, may have been the point.

Tyrion was with her for 2 weeks playing husband and wife. There was ample time for her to be pregnant to Tyrion and not the multitude of guards that raped her post Tyrion.

If Podrick has any offspring that are dwarves, one could support that theory lol

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7 hours ago, Weirwood Ghost said:

Tyrion was with her for 2 weeks playing husband and wife. There was ample time for her to be pregnant to Tyrion and not the multitude of guards that raped her post Tyrion.

If Podrick has any offspring that are dwarves, one could support that theory lol

By the way, what was the reason for believing he is the son of anyone important?  Because I sure don't see any reason to.

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8 hours ago, Nevets said:

By the way, what was the reason for believing he is the son of anyone important?  Because I sure don't see any reason to.

Might be the House Payne arms or the fact that this nobody kid saved Tyrion's life, killed a KG, and is accompanying Brienne is hard for some people to accept.

We do get rather restless between books, and hidden identities are fun.

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1 hour ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

Might be the House Payne arms or the fact that this nobody kid saved Tyrion's life, killed a KG, and is accompanying Brienne is hard for some people to accept.

We do get rather restless between books, and hidden identities are fun.

Oh, I agree, and there are hidden identity theories I can get into, like Lem=Richard Lonmouth,or even Ashara Dayne=Jyana Reed (although I like Septa Lemore better).  But they have to make sense and there has to be something - anything - in the books to back them up.  Besides, I like Podrick just the way he is.:D

 

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If you look back on page 2 thread you'll see why I suggest he could be more significant than we think. A lot of stories have the character under everyone's noses who becomes the surprise obvious candidate. I'm not saying Podrick is the son of anyone important, I've just always viewed him as having more to him than we think.

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