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Podrick Payne?


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I'm sure it has been mentioned on here many times, but Brienne and Pods Adventure sort of has elements of Dunc and Egg the main elements being A knight and his/her squire. As we now know Brienne is actually a descendant of Dunc and if you  remember in AFFC Brienne gets a shield painted to resemble one she saw in her fathers armory long ago. It was actually the same as Duncs shield a tree with a  falling star. So we know Brienne is a descendant of someone of significance, does this mean Pod is? I'm not saying he is some secret king. But could he be someone other than we think he is? His only living relative (as far as I can remember) is Ilyn Payne who conveniently had his tongue removed by King Aerys. 

Please let me know if I have missed anything.  Or put me forward to a thread which has already covered this. 

Many thanks 

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I'm preety sure that Pod is just Pod, but there are other parallel characters that ressembles Dunk and Egg, Sir Rolly "Duck" as Dunk parallel and Young Griff as Egg's. Even Arya and the Hound have some resselmblence, with much more diferences in this version, of course. But it's Interesting, Sir Duckfied was probabbly really knighted, but he is inexperient just like Dunk was, Dunk was possibly kinghted too, (even if later than the time of the three novellas so far) but maybe he was not, we don't know for sure. Sandor even refuse the title of kinght and Brienne just wished to be a knight.

All the four are not a classic or typical knight, but they all seem to be learning the true sense of knighthood (not really sure if Sandor will ever be a true knight, but he is definitly a lot better than he was before, so maybe in the future), and they all are protecting a young lad wich has an undercover identity, except for Pod i think.

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Rolly and Aegon? Why is that? I can't find a single resemblance to Dunk and Egg there. 

I think Dunk and Egg resemble the Quijote and Sancho. Quijote was a low rank knight-errant (a little soft in the head after a life of reading books) and Sancho was a kinda old and quite experienced (and much more clever than Quijote) squire. They are mostly companions.

Arya and Sandor, sure, travel together, but Sandor is her captor. I don't really see a resemblance to Dunk and Egg there, apart of that they travel together.

Pod and Brienne for me are more in the tune of Dunk/Egg and Quijote/Sancho. Brienne goes around pursuing her quests and Pod is the silent (yet somewhat clever) squire. Dunk leads the way, Egg refines the direction. 

I don't think Pod is more than just Pod. But surely George mirrors his best ideas along the books (the pairing of charismatic characters in pursue of a common quest, etc).

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1 hour ago, John Suburbs said:

Do we know that Brienne is descended from Dunk for sure? There's some compelling evidence, but AFAIK there's no confirmation, or am I wrong?

And just for consideration, there was some theorizing a while back that Pod might actually be a girl, but again AFAIK there is no hard evidence for it.

We do not. It's probable but not confirmed.

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re: King Merrett: "descendants of Dunk in the series." 

Yes, we are pretty sure that Hodor is a grandson, maybe great grandson of Old Nan and Duncan. On Bran's first vision through the weirwood-net, he saw a young "Old Nan" kissing a 7-foot knight under the weirwood. Apparently, Duncan dropped bastards all over the 7 Kingdoms.

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8 hours ago, John Suburbs said:

Do we know that Brienne is descended from Dunk for sure? There's some compelling evidence, but AFAIK there's no confirmation, or am I wrong?

And just for consideration, there was some theorizing a while back that Pod might actually be a girl, but again AFAIK there is no hard evidence for it.

GRRM confirmed it at Balticon

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15 hours ago, Lord Asher Forrester said:

Dunk was possibly kinghted too, (even if later than the time of the three novellas so far) but maybe he was not, we don't know for sure.

Nobody knows for sure if Dunk was knighted or not - they would only find out if Dunk admitted that he was not. It would seem strange then to knight him when he is generally accepted as a knight.

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The similarities between Brienne & Pod to Dunc & Egg are definitely there.   It's easy to forget all of these people are very young.   Pod is just a little boy, maybe 13 when he enlists with Brienne.  (Though I would expect Brienne to be older than Dunc.)  Where there is a more streamlined knight/squire relationship between Dunc & Egg there is more of a story about protection and loyalty between Brienne and Pod.  And I'm with our OP here, I do think Pod may well be someone of huge importance later in the story.   Not a secret somebody, but that his many horrific experiences are honing his character to do something great as Pod.  That is, if he isn't already dangling from a tree.  I've recently discovered something interesting about House Payne that I hope, but can't come close to proving, comes to fruition directly through Pod.    

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12 hours ago, zandru said:

Apparently, Duncan dropped bastards all over the 7 Kingdoms.

Dunk doesn't have to be "dropping bastards" over the 7 Kingdoms for the few characters we see that might be descended from. It's a 100 years prior, there's time for descendants to branch out. Really probably only 1 very likely bastard, up North whom Hodor is descended from.

A possible series of events. He goes North. Loves young nan, leaves before he knows he's fathered a child. Or she refuses to marry him or something. Comes back south. Hodor's line.

Gets awarded Penny Tree from the crown, marries and has children. Is widowed and enters the King's guard. One of his children marry into house Tarth. - Brienne's Line

Then if you wanted you could speculate from those descendants Left/Right, the Cleganes, Tallad the Tall. But there's no evidence any of them are descended from Dunk. (Well you could make theories about Rohane Webber  to the Cleganes, but that's all they'd be).

Dunk doesn't have to become some sort of rake to have Hodor and Brienne descended from him.

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15 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

The similarities between Brienne & Pod to Dunc & Egg are definitely there.   It's easy to forget all of these people are very young.   Pod is just a little boy, maybe 13 when he enlists with Brienne.  (Though I would expect Brienne to be older than Dunc.)  Where there is a more streamlined knight/squire relationship between Dunc & Egg there is more of a story about protection and loyalty between Brienne and Pod.  And I'm with our OP here, I do think Pod may well be someone of huge importance later in the story.   Not a secret somebody, but that his many horrific experiences are honing his character to do something great as Pod.  That is, if he isn't already dangling from a tree.  I've recently discovered something interesting about House Payne that I hope, but can't come close to proving, comes to fruition directly through Pod.    

Actually, Brienne is no older than 19 at this point in the story.  Podrick's age is unclear, but certainly no older than 13.  

While I don't think he has a secret heritage, I do think he will play a big role at some point in the story.  He is tremendously loyal, and amazingly persistent and brave.  He definitely has it in him to be heroic.  It is also worth noting that he knows Sansa and would be able to identify her if they ever meet.  He could also be useful as a go-between, as Sansa might be more willing to trust him than someone like Brienne that she has never met.

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37 minutes ago, Nevets said:

Actually, Brienne is no older than 19 at this point in the story.  Podrick's age is unclear, but certainly no older than 13.  

While I don't think he has a secret heritage, I do think he will play a big role at some point in the story.  He is tremendously loyal, and amazingly persistent and brave.  He definitely has it in him to be heroic.  It is also worth noting that he knows Sansa and would be able to identify her if they ever meet.  He could also be useful as a go-between, as Sansa might be more willing to trust him than someone like Brienne that she has never met.

Good deal, I was thinking Brienne was closer to early 20's but this is good.   I thought Dunc was only 17 when he met Egg?   I've been relistening to the last half of AFFC for the past 2 weeks and Pod's age is mentioned as 13.   Prior to catching that I thought he was only 10.  I'm sure Podrick Payne is precisely who he is sans other identity, but I think the Payne family has a secret that will play largely into the story to come.   Damn asearchoficeandfire!   But yes, Pod would be the one to ID Sansa, wouldn't he?   Good point on that as it hadn't even occurred to me previously.   

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When I think that there's more to a character than meets the eye, I typically go look up their heraldry. I think GRRM hides clues here. From the Wiki:

"House Payne is a noble house from the Westerlands. It is one of the principal houses sworn to House Lannister.[1] Their arms are purple and white chequy with gold coins in the checks"

Also:  "Tyrion Lannister remarks that there is a story behind the coins on the arms of House Payne, however the events of this story are currently unknown"

So I'm wondering...what's up with those gold coins, and does it have anything to do with what we'll see from Pod as the story progresses.

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17 minutes ago, maegiithefrog said:

When I think that there's more to a character than meets the eye, I typically go look up their heraldry. I think GRRM hides clues here. From the Wiki:

"House Payne is a noble house from the Westerlands. It is one of the principal houses sworn to House Lannister.[1] Their arms are purple and white chequy with gold coins in the checks"

Also:  "Tyrion Lannister remarks that there is a story behind the coins on the arms of House Payne, however the events of this story are currently unknown"

So I'm wondering...what's up with those gold coins, and does it have anything to do with what we'll see from Pod as the story progresses.

I don't think the gold coins mean anything. I believe its just there to add a little realism to the story.

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19 hours ago, Nevets said:

Actually, Brienne is no older than 19 at this point in the story.  Podrick's age is unclear, but certainly no older than 13.  

While I don't think he has a secret heritage, I do think he will play a big role at some point in the story.  He is tremendously loyal, and amazingly persistent and brave.  He definitely has it in him to be heroic.  It is also worth noting that he knows Sansa and would be able to identify her if they ever meet.  He could also be useful as a go-between, as Sansa might be more willing to trust him than someone like Brienne that she has never met.

I hadn't thought of this either but surely he could pick Sansa out even if she is disguised as Alayne. I like the whole Brienne/Pod dynamic, it brings some old fashioned questing knight errantry to the story. 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 10/09/2016 at 10:47 AM, King Merrett I Frey said:

Rolly and Aegon? Why is that? I can't find a single resemblance to Dunk and Egg there. 

Really not even one my friend? So who I'm talking about down there?

A lowborn knight,  thick as a castle, is impetuous and strong, and for that he hitted a highborn. but avoided the punition somehow but not without harsh consequences. Eventually this knight is raised to a white cloak by a Royal boy wich hided this royal identity as a lowborn by hiding his silver Targaryen hair. The young guy admires the lowborn knight sort of like a big brother, a protector and yet someone that can teach you things about life (as a hedge knight/sellsword).

Doesn't it fit to both stories until now, even if they have HUGE differences?

Even they names are ressembling, I mean Dunk and Rolly's nickname, "Duck", and Aegon for both the young ones.

I could go on a little more, but i think i proved my point. 

But just to be clear,by that I don't mean that their story will be played with any ressemblance more than that, but who knows right?I just meant that they have some very clear ressemblances.

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On 11/09/2016 at 1:20 AM, Michael Mertyns said:

Nobody knows for sure if Dunk was knighted or not - they would only find out if Dunk admitted that he was not. It would seem strange then to knight him when he is generally accepted as a knight.

Or we could know for sure if we see a him thinking about the memory of him being knighted . But that is the main point of the theory that he was not knighted, why the most important memory hat he could have was not shown in his thoughts yet?

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Just now, Lord Asher Forrester said:

Or we could know for sure if we see a him thinking about the memory of him being knighted . But that is the main point of the theory that he was not knighted, why the most important memory hat he could have was not shown in his thoughts yet?

My point was not about whether or not we knew if he was knighted or not. Dunk has generally been accepted by the other characters as a knight. They can't read his thoughts the way we can. Hence none of the people around him will ever know if he's lying or not unless he himself tells them.

http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/Norescon_Boston_MA_September_2_67

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On 9/9/2016 at 5:37 PM, ThePrinceThatKnewNothing said:

... Brienne and Pods Adventure sort of has elements of Dunc and Egg the main elements being A knight and his/her squire. As we now know Brienne is actually a descendant of Dunc ...So we know Brienne is a descendant of someone of significance, does this mean Pod is? I'm not saying he is some secret king. But could he be someone other than we think he is? His only living relative (as far as I can remember) is Ilyn Payne who conveniently had his tongue removed by King Aerys.

One difference is that Egg chose to follow Ser Duncan because he liked and admired him, if I recall correctly. Pod follows Brienne because he hopes to find Tyrion when Brienne locates Sansa. Maybe the motives don't really matter, if the knight / squire road trip is the main similarity.

Brienne and Pod have both undertaken their journey with the goal of supporting Lannisters - Brienne to fulfill Jaime's promise to Catelyn and Pod to locate Tyrion and ensure that he is safe. Dunc and Egg, of course, were Targaryen loyalists. This leads me to wonder, though, if we are supposed to compare the uncles in the background, Ser Ilyn Payne and Bloodraven. Payne is a devoted loyalist of Tywin Lannister, Ser Brynden is devoted to the Targaryen monarch. One guy is missing a tongue, the other guy is missing an eye. One guy is the King's Justice, the other is Hand of the King. Both have possessed or used famous swords. Ser Ilyn is traveling with Jaime, re-teaching him how to use a sword, while Pod travels with Brienne.

Interestingly, Bloodraven is teaching Bran at the same time Ser Ilyn is teaching Jaime. I suspect the coins on the Payne sigil have something to do with the mentor of Dunc, Ser Arlan of Pennytree, a village where pennies have been nailed to a tree. (Of course, anything to do with coins probably connects to Littlefinger or to Tyrion in their roles as masters of coin.)

For what it's worth, as Brienne and Pod travel together, Tyrion is traveling with Penny, who helps him to put on his armor a couple of times. Maybe their situation should be compared to (or contrasted with) Dunc and Egg, too.

It would not surprise me at all if Pod has a secret. His backstory reminds me a little bit of Ser Dontos Hollard. Pod originally squired for a guy who was executed for stealing a ham, and Pod was supposed to be killed, too, because he ate some of the ham. Tywin spared him (if I am remembering correctly) because of his connection to Ser Ilyn. Ser Dontos was spared by King Aerys at the request of Ser Barristan Selmy after the Defiance at Duskendale. Ser Dontos grew up to inflict some revenge on the Lannisters (although he was motivated by coins, too). If the parallel holds, Podrick will do something to cause pain or undermine the enemies of the Lannisters, right? But Dontos was a fan of King Renly, not working for any Targaryens, as far as we know. So it's hard to know whether to use that situation as a model to predict Pod's future.

I'm thinking out loud here, just jotting down random notes. This is a good topic, though. It's worth trying to sort out what Pod might do or be.

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