Aenarion Posted September 11, 2016 Share Posted September 11, 2016 I'm just curious what happened to them, and why they were extinguished. I know they rebelled against the Stark in Winterfell. . . . but I'm curious about the whole story (if it exists). PS. Am I remembering wrong, or did they rebel with the Boltons at the same time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scorpion92 Posted September 11, 2016 Share Posted September 11, 2016 Greystarks were given Wolf's Den to rule, they allied with Boltons against Starks of Winterfell, and were extinguished basically for their treason. I think this is a great foreshadowing for Karstarks. They will go extinct in the next books just like Boltons, Umbers, Manderlys, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aenarion Posted September 11, 2016 Author Share Posted September 11, 2016 What makes you think the Umbers and Manderlys will as well? I also don't see why the Karstarks should too. There is still Alys, and wasn't one of the Karstark boys (the one with Robb's foot soldiers) a hostage? I'm curious, why were the Boltons extinguished along with the Greystarks? Do we know? I find it hard to believe that the King in the North would extinguish a family that is related to his own completely, and then be like, "Hey, Boltons! Nice to see you there. You promise to raise no new rebellions? AWESOME! Peace out." Especially the Starks of old (Theon, I'm looking at you!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minstral Posted September 11, 2016 Share Posted September 11, 2016 1 hour ago, Aenarion said: What makes you think the Umbers and Manderlys will as well? I also don't see why the Karstarks should too. There is still Alys, and wasn't one of the Karstark boys (the one with Robb's foot soldiers) a hostage? I'm curious, why were the Boltons extinguished along with the Greystarks? Do we know? I find it hard to believe that the King in the North would extinguish a family that is related to his own completely, and then be like, "Hey, Boltons! Nice to see you there. You promise to raise no new rebellions? AWESOME! Peace out." Especially the Starks of old (Theon, I'm looking at you!). It could be that the Greystarks were actually the heads of the rebellion while the Boltons were allies. As Roose says to Jaime, he believes that Robb should have bent his knees because with submission comes pardons, except for those who you make examples out of. It is very likely that he is considering what his family has done in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runaway Penguin Posted September 11, 2016 Share Posted September 11, 2016 Well family can be extinguished for example is all male members perish on the battlefield. After all look at Boltons: a lord, a legitimized bastard... And that's it. Two lucky arrows and they are extinguished... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Yozza Posted September 11, 2016 Share Posted September 11, 2016 The Greystark's rebelled against the Stark's and put their support behind House Bolton and they got extinguished for it. 4 hours ago, Aenarion said: What makes you think the Umbers and Manderlys will as well? I also don't see why the Karstarks should too. There is still Alys, and wasn't one of the Karstark boys (the one with Robb's foot soldiers) a hostage? I'm curious, why were the Boltons extinguished along with the Greystarks? Do we know? I find it hard to believe that the King in the North would extinguish a family that is related to his own completely, and then be like, "Hey, Boltons! Nice to see you there. You promise to raise no new rebellions? AWESOME! Peace out." Especially the Starks of old (Theon, I'm looking at you!). I was wondering about why he thought Umber and Manderly too. Manderly seems set to survive (good number of troops, secretly supporting Stannis..) and GreatJon is still alive too, as are his younger sons and brothers as far as we know (possibly also prisoners). The Karstarks I have to agree will likely become extinct. Stannis might burn Arnolf, his children and his grandchildren for the Nightlamps theory which leaves Alys (married to Sigorn Thenn) and Harrion (a Lannister prisoner). It wouldn't surprise me if Harrion was executed for his sisters 'treason'. As for why the Bolton's were never fully wiped out, it could be the case that when the Bolton's rebelled they weren't betraying their kin and that it was probably kind of expected too. The Greystark's however had turned against their cousins and tried to overthrow them. It was probably seen as the less forgivable crime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Suburbs Posted September 12, 2016 Share Posted September 12, 2016 On 9/11/2016 at 2:06 AM, Minstral said: It could be that the Greystarks were actually the heads of the rebellion while the Boltons were allies. As Roose says to Jaime, he believes that Robb should have bent his knees because with submission comes pardons, except for those who you make examples out of. It is very likely that he is considering what his family has done in the past. Either that, or the last Greystark died during the fighting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Light a wight tonight Posted September 12, 2016 Share Posted September 12, 2016 They changed their name to Greystoke and became the ancestors of Tarzan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GallowsKnight Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 On 9/11/2016 at 2:27 PM, Aenarion said: I'm curious, why were the Boltons extinguished along with the Greystarks? Do we know? I find it hard to believe that the King in the North would extinguish a family that is related to his own completely, and then be like, "Hey, Boltons! Nice to see you there. You promise to raise no new rebellions? AWESOME! Peace out." Especially the Starks of old (Theon, I'm looking at you!). Heaps of reasons. The Lord and heirs of the Greystarks might have fallen on the field of battle. Being extinguished unintentionally. Or they may have been the only true leaders of the Rebellion, the Boltons only allies/followers. Or the Boltons had people on both sides. Or the Boltons had withdrawn to the Dreadfort and the Starks compromised because they didn't want a long siege over winter. Or someone might have taken over house Bolton by marrying a female heir and the Boltons restored their name a generation later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scorpion92 Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 On 9/11/2016 at 0:27 AM, Aenarion said: What makes you think the Umbers and Manderlys will as well? I also don't see why the Karstarks should too. There is still Alys, and wasn't one of the Karstark boys (the one with Robb's foot soldiers) a hostage? Manderlys are too ambitious which will bite them in the ass. Wyman Manderly wants to become Lord Regent in Rickon's name. Once Stannis defeats Boltons, he will give Stannis what he wants - money, fleet and army - to take Iron Throne in exchange for regency over Rickon. And Jon will not be sitting at the Wall after his resurrection - he will march south with wildlings demanding transfer of Rickon's regency in order to become Regent himself and order the northern houses to man the nineteen castles at the Wall. By that time Stannis will leave the North and be involved in his own storyline down south (which will involve his defeat by Dany at Dragonstone). So I expect a huge battle over Rickon between coalition of northern nobles led by Manderly vs Jon, wildlings and other northern houses which are aware of Robb's will and decide not to ignore it despite Rickon's return. Manderlys got expelled from the Reach for their big ambitions, and they barely survived. I think it is foreshadowing their destruction. Besides, in my honest opinion, Davos will join Jon's campaign once he hears of Stannis' "defeat" at crofter's village and witnesses his resurrection (by that time he would have given Rickon to Manderly as promised and gone to Castle Black to serve Shireen now that Stannis is "dead"). We saw White Harbor through Davos' eyes - one of the most important places and one of the gateways to the North. I believe Jon will award White Harbor to Davos Seaworth as he is the most experienced navy commander and expert in all things concerning sea. King of Winter Jon Stark drove out the pirates from White Knife and built Wolf's Den to protect it. A lot of northern families tried to hold it and manage it until SOUTHERN family Manderly finally built a strong city and fleet and solved this problem for Starks once and for all. Davos is a southerner and has big experience with ships, so I can think no one better at Jon's side to award White Harbor to. I mean, I can write on and on about this, but basically my train of though is this - when Jon becomes King in the North, he will become king NOT BECAUSE he is next in line of succession or he is named by Robb as his heir or following feudal law system logic. He will be named king because he earned through his deeds, not his blood, which what he has been doing all along in this story. Basically, his storyline and the lifestyle of Free Folk is that of a democracy. And i wholeheartedly believe that Jon will inject "Free Folk" mindset of electing your leaders instead following someone because of his name and blood. And in order to do that, you need to destroy the old and establish new. For example, I think besides Davos getting awarded White Harbor by Jon, I see him giving Last Hearth to Tormund Giantsbane (there is an awesome essay by cantuse that hints at him being Hoarfrost Umber's bastard son) and Karhold to Sigorn Thenn, Hornwood to Larence Snow, and lands of defeated northern nobles to loyal wildling chiefs. I think Barrowton and Rills will be free of Houses Dustin and Ryswell as I do not see them surviving in Winds of Winter. We also have maiden Lady Cerwyn and young maid Lady Eddara Tallhart for a reason in this story that can be married off to wildling chiefs and leaders the way Alys Karstark and Sigorn got married. In other words, I see Jon changing the political fabric and destroying the old feudal system in the North and injecting it with "Free Folk" seeds of democracy prior the Long Night. Of course I do not have textual references to support all my claims, but I sincerely believe this is Jon's arc in Winds of Winter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trigger Warning Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 Boltons were likely far more powerful than the Greystarks, the war draws on, House Stark gets the upper hand, they come to terms, guessing the preservation of the Greystarks wasn't high on Bolton priorities. Maybe for example the Greystarks pushed a Bolton backed claim on Winterfell, Boltons withdraw support when things aren't going their way, Greystarks no longer have the power to defy Winterfell. Most wars in history weren't all out wars of unconditional surrender and destruction, especially in the European Middle Ages. The potential risk of further wars and rebellion in the future may be less than the current risk of prolonged war with a powerful vassal in the present, even if you're winning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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