U.S. Elections 2016: It's Not A Lie, If YOU Believe It

[Weeping Sore]

8 minutes ago, White Walker Texas Ranger said:

But how much of that assigning charisma scores is ex post facto because they won or lost? Was HW Bush really that much more charismatic than Dukakis?

That's a good point. HW had a kind of patrician amiability that suggested Mr. Rogers or George McFly. (Of course nice guys don't run the C.I.A., and anyone who believed he was out of the loop on Iran-Contra is a fool.) Dukakis probably should be scored higher for his ability to connect thoughtfully and emotionally, except for the penalty for appearing in the tank with that helmet and not fighting back against Republican dirty tricks (not fighting back making him seem more like pre-Marty intervention George McFly). This is definitely an edge case. Maybe HW vs Dukakis is even a tie, somewhere in the 12-13 range.

[all swedes are racist]

42 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

I personally prefer Trump saying, in the same sentence, that he can't release his tax returns because of the audit, but he would be willing to release them if Clinton released her deleted emails, thereby confirming that he can actually release them, but just doesn't want to. 

yeah, its nothing new on the lying and hypocricy front, just had to chuckle at one of the Trumplets basically distilling down to a single sentence the very philosophical reason no one should vote for Daddy Warbuckscrimes. 

"It'd be foolish to allow bumbling laypersons make all sort of unfounded assumptions or decisions about things they know little-to-nothing about"

why yes, I totally agree!

[TrackerNeil]

54 minutes ago, White Walker Texas Ranger said:

But how much of that assigning charisma scores is ex post facto because they won or lost? Was HW Bush really that much more charismatic than Dukakis?

Yup. Charisma tends to be associated with winners; those who win must have it, while those who lose lack it. Honestly, I'm not exactly sure what the term means, and if it matters in terms of the day-to-day of governing--or even winning elections.

[Commodore]

whichever candidate wins, the explanation will rightly be that the electorate is awful

[Weeping Sore]

31 minutes ago, TrackerNeil said:

.Honestly, I'm not exactly sure what the term means...

Charisma measures a character’s force of personality, persuasiveness, personal magnetism, ability to lead, and physical attractiveness. This ability represents actual strength of personality, not merely how one is perceived by others in a social setting. Charisma is most important for paladins, sorcerers, and bards. It is also important for clerics, since it affects their ability to turn undead. Every creature has a Charisma score.

You apply your character’s Charisma modifier to:

• Bluff, Diplomacy, Disguise, Gather Information, Handle Animal, Intimidate, Perform, and Use Magic Device checks. These are the skills that have Charisma as their key ability.

As Trump has gone through this entire campaign Bluffing, Performing and Intimidating more or less successfully, I would say he either has a pretty high charisma score or he's just making some really lucky rolls.

[mormont]

5 hours ago, Fez said:

 But that's not the place where the race should be, Clinton should be beating Trump like a rented mule; and she was a few weeks ago.

What's this obsession with beating mules? Rented or not, beating your mule is cruel! Unfair to mules! Can't Clinton just beat him like a carpet or something for once?

2 hours ago, Swordfish said:

Except comparison isn't what is happening here.

Er, it is, in fact.

2 hours ago, Swordfish said:

This is another fine example of the state of discourse in politics.  Any criticisms of HRC draw petty personal attacks. 

If you think that was a personal attack, you need to recalibrate a bit.

[A Horse Named Stranger]

Just now, Commodore said:

whichever candidate wins, the explanation will rightly be that the electorate is awful

 

No.

Whichever candidate wins, the electorate will get exactly the President it deserves.

If Trump wins the election, the US deserves President Trump, and the continued conservative majority at the US Supreme Court. 

[DanteGabriel]

5 hours ago, TrackerNeil said:

If I have learned one thing from 2016 it's that nothing Hillary Clinton does will be good enough. She's not even allowed to get sick without full disclosure. 

BTW, isn't Colin Powell the Late Lord Frey of American politics? He avoids taking any position until just before the end of the game, and he never takes any position until he's sure that's where most Americans are going to end up. A profile in political courage he is not.

I think of Powell as the Barristan the Bold of US politics. A soldier years removed from his reputation-making triumphs who was so focused on his honor that he ignored and excused the rot in the regime he served. He's been compromised since he waggled that vial of fake anthrax at the UN to sell Bush the Lesser's invasion of Iraq. 

[Swordfish]

7 minutes ago, mormont said:

What's this obsession with beating mules? Rented or not, beating your mule is cruel! Unfair to mules! Can't Clinton just beat him like a carpet or something for once?

Er, it is, in fact.

 

Er... It isn't, in fact.

How fun!

 

I'm with you on the mule thing though.  Mules are very under appreciated.

[The guy from the Vale]

14 minutes ago, Notone said:

 

No.

Whichever candidate wins, the electorate will get exactly the President it deserves.

If Trump wins the election, the US deserves President Trump, and the continued conservative majority at the US Supreme Court. 

The USA might deserve Trump, although I doubt it. But since the US president is the most powerful person on Earth, the question becomes if the world deserves Donald Trump.

[DireWolfSpirit]

54 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said:

I think of Powell as the Barristan the Bold of US politics. A soldier years removed from his reputation-making triumphs who was so focused on his honor that he ignored and excused the rot in the regime he served. He's been compromised since he waggled that vial of fake anthrax at the UN to sell Bush the Lesser's invasion of Iraq. 

Well said, also his son was pretty much a doormat for the media conglomerates when he was running the FCC. A position that should have been more rightly suited for protecting the public interests, was used to rubber stamp whatever the media monopolies wanted. The publics finite bandwith, plundered and auctioned to the well heeled. The Powell's were never above cronyism. Father and son both sellouts behind the scenes.

[A Horse Named Stranger]

Which is true. The position of the President of the United States is probably the most powerful in the world; BUT it's an US election, not a world election. And in a way, the rest of the world kinda deserve him, too. 

Esp. the European Union had quite some time to establish itself as some sort of counterweight and thus reduce the influence of the (POT)US. So the size of the fallout is at least partly self-inflicted.

[Fez]

48 minutes ago, Commodore said:

whichever candidate wins, the explanation will rightly be that the electorate is awful

What about McMullin? Is he your guy?

[Kalbear]

Gotta say, this last week is pretty depressing. Clinton's numbers continue to decline, Trump continues to improve with independents for no reason that I can remotely understand, and stupid shit continues to dominate the news cycle.

[TrackerNeil]

30 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

Gotta say, this last week is pretty depressing. Clinton's numbers continue to decline, Trump continues to improve with independents for no reason that I can remotely understand, and stupid shit continues to dominate the news cycle.

I feel the same. I don't normally hold people's voting choices against them, not very much, but I can't say the same of those voting for Trump, or even just sitting out the race.

[Shryke]

1 hour ago, DanteGabriel said:

I think of Powell as the Barristan the Bold of US politics. A soldier years removed from his reputation-making triumphs who was so focused on his honor that he ignored and excused the rot in the regime he served. He's been compromised since he waggled that vial of fake anthrax at the UN to sell Bush the Lesser's invasion of Iraq. 

Oh please. That fucker cut his teeth whitewashing the My Lai Massacre. The guy's reputation is just like McCain's: it's media-created flim-flam.

[BloodRider]

21 hours ago, Mudguard said:

Yeah, there does seem to be a difference.  The bigots voting for Clinton appear to be getting a pass from Clinton while the bigots voting for Trump get called out.  I'll give her huge props if she's willing to call 1/3 of her supporters deplorable bigots/racists/sexists, but I doubt that will happen.

No.  The difference is that Trump says racist things, and specifically has an outreach to the racist elements of his party.  Do you understand why that is an important distinction?   It's one thing to have a racist grampa in the family.  It's another thing entirely to ask him to tell racist jokes at neighborhood gatherings.  You don't then get to excuse your racist behavior by saying - I bet you have racists in your family.  Well, yeah.  Probably.  How bout we deal with that when you quit taking gramps to the library with a megaphone to give his speech about the good ole days of Operation Wetback.

I get that you think you are being clever and witty.  But quite frankly, you are not.  You are being actively racist.  Not blase "that's not my problem" indifference to racism, but just flat out "I want to talk shit about large swaths of humanity with impunity, and I get pissy like a spoilt kid when I get called out" kinda racism.  

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Shryke,

McCain didn't choose to stay in the Hanoi Hilton with other American POWs when he could have come home early?

[drawkcabi]

Around here the VFW, a bunch of the big properties of farmland they all got huge TRUMP banners on them, I can't stand it.  

[BloodRider]

6 hours ago, TrackerNeil said:

I find it curious that losing candidates in elections are always blamed for not winning, as if the way the public votes is utterly dependent upon how X candidate performs. If Americans are turning increasingly towards a bullying, lying bigot as the leader of the free world, it's not Hillary Clinton who's to blame.

People who mono-source the blame are to blame.