Coolbeard the Exile Posted September 15, 2016 Share Posted September 15, 2016 Brynden Rivers is one of the coolest characters in asoiaf but i don't know what his agenda is. Is he an agent of the others or is he trying to stop them? Brynden Rivers seems from A world of ice and fire to be a good guy. He supported the good and smart king in the blackfyre rebelion staying true despite chance of personal gains. He was a very good hand of the king and there seems to be no signs of him being evil. It is implied that he killed Daemon Blackfyre with magical arrows but i don't think that makes him bad or evil. He was a loyal and faithful servant of house Targaryen and took the black when his king told him without to much of a protest. He became lord commander of the nights watch and then he dissaperared beyond the wall. Now we know him as the three eyed crow and he seems to be working for the others. This dosn't make any sense to me. Before he always ruled seemingly with the goal of prosperity. So why would he be working with the Others who seem to be all about destroying the entire world. What do you think of this dude guys and what are his motives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Scribe of Naath Posted September 15, 2016 Share Posted September 15, 2016 He's pure, unadulterated badass, IMO. One of my favourite characters in the series. There's really nothing to suggest the idea that he is working for the Others - his previous characterization does not line up with that. The guy has always done what he has felt was good for the realm, even if it involved soiling his own honour (killing Aenys so that Egg could comfortably become King.) In that sense, the man is one of the most selfless characters of the series. He's even given up the diginity and peace of a clean death for the existence we see in ADWD - that's a pathetic way of existing, IMO, and even Bran feels the same thing ("What if I don't want to remain, when you're gone."). He's obviously lingering in that manner for the realm. What's going to be really interesting, however, is how is uber-practical worldview clashes with Bran's Ned-influenced rigid "honor" code - and it's very debatable as to which one is right or morally superior, and which is wrong, especially when Bran might soon find himself in a position where his decisions could affect thousands of lives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fattest Leech Posted September 15, 2016 Share Posted September 15, 2016 Bookmarking to come back to later... but yeah, Brynden is one of the most layered characters GRRM created for this world and my top favorite... even above the "heroes". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurid Jester Posted September 15, 2016 Share Posted September 15, 2016 A lot can change when you join the weir.net. So far we don't know how much of Brynden Rivers remains and how much might actually be the collective speaking through him. I hope he's a good guy but I have a nagging feeling that something is wrong with him. I just can't put my finger on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiveFirstDieLater Posted September 15, 2016 Share Posted September 15, 2016 I don't think he is the three eyed crow... He's Blood Raven not a Crow But I do think there is evidence he could be in league with or the cause of or a puppet of the Others... He also seems to not really have scruples when it comes to honor... In fact it seems like he is an Oathbreaker (left the Wall without dying), violating guest right (killing the Blackfyre got him sent to the Wall by Egg), and as mentioned above shoots Daemon's Sons so as to kill the father... Textbook lack of honor So vengeance on the realm that has now ousted his family from power, with the help of the Children of the Forrest who have their own reasons for vengeance against the realms of men seems a distinct possibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dariopatke Posted September 15, 2016 Share Posted September 15, 2016 Maybe he is (more likely IMO) maybe he isn't, but even if he is we can not determine if he is evil, bad anything not good because we do not know much about Others amd we do not anything about their agenda. If I have to guess I would say humans broke some pact written long time ago, I would also say first 12 commanders of NW also married Others, but this is off topic. My point is that it doesn't matter what side it picks in regards of his personality. I always prefered Bittersteel but Brynden is definetly among better characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgrav Posted September 15, 2016 Share Posted September 15, 2016 Bloodraven's IRL mythology counterpart is Odin, who is unambiguously on the "good" side. I might have to refresh on my Prose Edda, but if I recall correctly, Odin's role is much more passive than the other gods. He's the guy who sees the future of how Ragnarok goes down, so he's not too caught up in the petty dramas the rest are prone to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coolbeard the Exile Posted September 16, 2016 Author Share Posted September 16, 2016 It seems to me that Brynden Rivers is on the side of the Others. It if fairly obvious that Brynden Rivers is Crasters father. All the dates and ages match for that to be and also it is said that his father was from the night's watch. Craster is recruiting more Others for the Others by sacrifising his male children to them. And when he gets killed by the night's watch Brynden Rivers sends his goon Coldhands to brutaly slaughter the night's watch who killed his son Craster. Why would he do this if he is good? It was because he got angry that his son got killed and the Others only known source of new Others. He also seems very sinister in his now Bloodraven form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One-eyed Misbehavin Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 Considering how long the others have been around.... Very unusual to think that BR is their man It just seems more likely that he has been aware of their coming for awhile and had to stick around until someone else powerful enough (bran) can learn all of his powers and search through the weir-net for some advice for the humans on the battle for dawn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One-eyed Misbehavin Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 Does anyone believe "there must always be a stark in Winterfell" has anything to do with others/pact. Im still sticking with my post 1st read through theory. That Grendel's underground cave comes out in the crypts of WF and with no Stark blood there it could be that the magic is gone/reduced where others can pass underneath the wall unaffected boom! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgrav Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 3 hours ago, One-eyed Misbehavin said: Does anyone believe "there must always be a stark in Winterfell" has anything to do with others/pact. Im still sticking with my post 1st read through theory. That Grendel's underground cave comes out in the crypts of WF and with no Stark blood there it could be that the magic is gone/reduced where others can pass underneath the wall unaffected boom! Then why did Coldhands have to wait north of the wall for Bran? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurid Jester Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 3 hours ago, One-eyed Misbehavin said: Im still sticking with my post 1st read through theory. That Grendel's underground cave comes out in the crypts of WF and with no Stark blood there it could be that the magic is gone/reduced where others can pass underneath the wall unaffected boom! Wait, what? 4 hours ago, Knight of valour said: It seems to me that Brynden Rivers is on the side of the Others. It if fairly obvious that Brynden Rivers is Crasters father. All the dates and ages match for that to be and also it is said that his father was from the night's watch. Craster is recruiting more Others for the Others by sacrifising his male children to them. And when he gets killed by the night's watch Brynden Rivers sends his goon Coldhands to brutaly slaughter the night's watch who killed his son Craster. Why would he do this if he is good? It was because he got angry that his son got killed and the Others only known source of new Others. He also seems very sinister in his now Bloodraven form. Interesting idea. I'd always assumed that Coldhands was avenging the betrayed NW members by killing the traitors. Aside from Craster being the right age, is there anything else to suggest the parentage of Bloodraven? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aryagonnakill#2 Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 4 hours ago, Knight of valour said: It seems to me that Brynden Rivers is on the side of the Others. It if fairly obvious that Brynden Rivers is Crasters father. All the dates and ages match for that to be and also it is said that his father was from the night's watch. Craster is recruiting more Others for the Others by sacrifising his male children to them. And when he gets killed by the night's watch Brynden Rivers sends his goon Coldhands to brutaly slaughter the night's watch who killed his son Craster. Why would he do this if he is good? It was because he got angry that his son got killed and the Others only known source of new Others. He also seems very sinister in his now Bloodraven form. 19 minutes ago, Lurid Jester said: Wait, what? Interesting idea. I'd always assumed that Coldhands was avenging the betrayed NW members by killing the traitors. Aside from Craster being the right age, is there anything else to suggest the parentage of Bloodraven? I think you guys are both forgetting that the mutineers were following Bran & Co, and that after Coldhands killed them, the group ate them. It was a perfectly logical move that does not have to be explained away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgrav Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 Yeah, literally anyone less than like 60 years old could be BR's descendant, if time frame is the only consideration. This is one of those situations where meta-considerations like narrative purpose and literary tradition come into play. BR's obvious equivalence to Odin should provide a rough template for the character that rules out certain plot directions, such as him being evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maester of Valyria Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 Spitballing here, but anyway: If Bloodraven is Craster's father, then mightn't that be the reason the Others are returning now? Because they've only been able to gain more Others since Bloodraven was sent to the wall, sired Craster, and Craster started having incest-babies? And now they have enough force to move south again? I don't know. Like I said, just spitballing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Scribe of Naath Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 BR is not Craster's father, people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aryagonnakill#2 Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 4 minutes ago, Maester of Valyria said: Spitballing here, but anyway: If Bloodraven is Craster's father, then mightn't that be the reason the Others are returning now? Because they've only been able to gain more Others since Bloodraven was sent to the wall, sired Craster, and Craster started having incest-babies? And now they have enough force to move south again? I don't know. Like I said, just spitballing. In an ssm somewhere GRRM has said that other people besides Crastor make the sacrifices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macgregor of the North Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 9 minutes ago, aryagonnakill#2 said: In an ssm somewhere GRRM has said that other people besides Crastor make the sacrifices. I have always assumed this but have never read the ssm. Im gonna try and hunt for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Scribe of Naath Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 4 minutes ago, Macgregor of the North said: I have always assumed this but have never read the ssm. Im gonna try and hunt for it. If you don't post it here,please ping me when you find it . I never knew there were others making the sacrifices too.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fattest Leech Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 9 minutes ago, Little Scribe of Naath said: If you don't post it here,please ping me when you find it . I never knew there were others making the sacrifices too.. I believe it was some of the coans along the east coast... But I can't remember for sure... And I want to see this SSM as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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