NFL 2016 Week 2: extending the mustache ride in LA

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

Lol, someone's a little defensive about their sports hero.....

 

Look, the truth is most people have to fail, sometimes several times, before they find success, so I'm not going to hold it against BB that he couldn't fix La Factory De Sadness. And quite frankly, going 11-5 with Matt Cassel is the equivalent of Raptor Jesus descending from the heavens.

[Jaime L]

9 hours ago, James Arryn said:

Way too derivative to deserve that title. Maybe if Giotto hadn't done the originals Brady would be in the conversation, but all you can really say at this point is he's an excellent draftsman. 

I think you're missing his subtle commentary on animal cruelty.

5 minutes ago, lancerman said:

So my answer is "lol no". That doesn't even take into account how Belichick had to game plan around Garrapolo and Brissett, while with Brady he changes the game plan every week to attack the opposing defenses weakness. They are far less versatile without Brady. Belichick just isn't as dumb as most coaches to let his back up be some scrub like the Colts were a few years back. 

Edit: and that's with me spotting Cassel the week one game that Brady started in 2008. 

I mean obviously Brady is a top 3 QB all time. It's silly to compare him with Cassel, Brissett or handsome Jimmy. I think Tywin was a bit hasty in his wording in terms of "matters".

Brady based on resume probably should be considered the greatest QB of all time. The only thing stopping it from being a slam dunk is Belichick's undeniable greatness and everything he does that makes things easier for his QBs. Destroying a (probable) playoff team with a raw as fuck QB like Brissett in which Belichick had 3 days to get him ready just highlights again the extent Belichick helps attach the "winner" designation to anyone who QBs for him. 

[lancerman]

4 minutes ago, Jaime L said:

I think you're missing his subtle commentary on animal cruelty.

I mean obviously Brady is a top 3 QB all time. It's silly to compare him with Cassel, Brissett or handsome Jimmy. I think Tywin was a bit hasty in his wording in terms of "matters".

Brady based on resume probably should be considered the greatest QB of all time. The only thing stopping it from being a slam dunk is Belichick's undeniable greatness and everything he does that makes things easier for his QBs. Destroying a (probable) playoff team with a raw as fuck QB like Brissett in which Belichick had 3 days to get him ready just highlights again the extent Belichick helps attach the "winner" designation to anyone who QBs for him. 

True but you would be hard pressed to find a QB who wasn't a product of his situation. Montana had Walsh, a revolutionary offense, and Jerry Rice in his prime. Manning will probably go down as the QB who consistently had the most generous offering of offensive skill positions his entire career . Marino had Shula who won SB's with someone else. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

12 minutes ago, Jaime L said:

I mean obviously Brady is a top 3 QB all time. It's silly to compare him with Cassel, Brissett or handsome Jimmy. I think Tywin was a bit hasty in his wording in terms of "matters".

What I meant to say is that if you could one of them for 10 years, you take Belichick. 

[DanteGabriel]

1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said:

Can we finally say once and for all, it's Belichick, not Brady, that matters.

It's a little of both. I personally put it at 60/40 Belichick/Brady. And I think an underrated part of Brady's value is what a good soldier he is -- falling in line with his coach's plans instead of complaining or resisting when the coach gets rid of his most reliable receiver  or protects him with a hodge podge line, and rolling with the adaptable game plans that Belichick likes to feature. Not every QB would tolerate playing in this structure, especially not an elite veteran.

Somewhat related: this week Michael Irvin said that, if the Pats beat the Texans playing Brissett at QB, he would scratch the "Lombardi" off his three Super Bowl trophies and write in Belichick. He even tweeted about it.

At the risk of exposing myself to more Phil Simms voluntarily, I will intrepidly watch next week's Inside the NFL and report back on the status of Irvin's trophies. The things I do for love of this thread...

[Altherion]

1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said:

Can we finally say once and for all, it's Belichick, not Brady, that matters.

Not really, no. If you think about it, he has won one game so far against a decent team (the first one, which was uncomfortably close -- a bit lucky there with the missed field goal at the end). Although it is surely partly due to Darth Hoodie's competence, the Texans were just awful last night. 14 of the 27 points came off of 2 kickoff return fumbles (who does that?). Another 7 points (the 41-yard run) came at the end when the Patriots had blatantly given up on scoring and were trying to run out the clock. And they had no offense whatsoever -- forget touchdowns, they barely managed to leave their half of their field and apparently never made it closer than the Patriots 35.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

32 minutes ago, Jaime L said:

I think you're missing his subtle commentary on animal cruelty.

 Did he come up with those conceptually? Cause that Angry Birds one is pretty damn funny. 

[Rockroi]

Who was better: Brady or Belichick?  FIRST WORLD PROBLEMS FTW!!!!

Anyway, how in the world can the rest of the league react?  AWhat do you do if you are a fan of ANY other team?  You get up there, you look at your schedule and think, "We have X, Y... have a tough game against Z... but if we play our cards right we can go 3-1 or maybe 4-0 and ... look, with Brady out we could have a two-game lead on home-field!  I mean, the Pats start the season ON THE ROAD against a NFC powerhouse with a male model as a QB who had only seen time in blowouts.  I mean, they gotta lose that one!

Then Pats 2-0.  And a D that seemed hit or miss.  So... WAIT!  THEN a ROOKIE... THIRD STRING QB!  Okay, surely the Pats will lose THAT game against a 2-0 power-house D and a QB who beat them in the regular season last season!  I mean, an unproven rookie QB ... AH FUCK!!!!!!!!  Pats blow... the .... doors... off the Texans ... 27-0.  

Okay, I don't want to shine the Pats too much.  The Running game worked and Brisett avoided the killer mistake and made the right passes.  Great O-Line and, strangely enough, a fucking great punting game that always had the Texans with their back to the wall.  That was all vital. 

BUT COME ON HOUSTON!  Why did you suck so hard?  That team DID NOT COME TO PLAY!  That team rolled over faster than a French forward army.  That team was utterly unprepared; two terrible turnovers on special teams, a bad INT by Osweiller, and then that pathetic moment where Billy O'Brien - who I like - had to be told ... BY HIS PUNTER - to challenge a play.  The Pats ran with IMPUNITY on one o fthe most vaunted lines in the NFL.  

I mean, maybe the game would have been different if JJ Watt had played.  

But overall, the Texans came into Foxboro and played like an entire state caught in headlights.  Utterly unprepared, unenthused, and utterly overwhelmed.  How do you play a prime-time game against a Conf rival and go in there and shit the bed THAT badly?  (I mean... other than the 2014 Pats @ KC)?  How do you let that all happen?  That way? That much?  What a fucking shit-pile that was.  I know this is way way way way wwaaaaaaayyyyyy premature... but if the Texans collapse after this loss, I would not be surprised.  I mean, I am already scratching them off a legit challenge in the playoffs; how can that team ever play the Pats again and be like, "Yeah... we got this?"  But I would not be surprised if they imploded and lost like 6 of the next 7 (granted, they play the Colts and TItans in there so ... ).  How can you trust your coach after that?  How do you trust the D after that? 

Again, I like Billy O'Brien a lot; he was a great OC here and even got in Brady's grill when the GOAT got unbearable.  And, yes, the 2014 Pats righted the ship after a CRUSHING loss to the Chiefs on the road and in prime-time.  But I just do not feel like any team can fear the Texans after that.  What a team of paper-tigers.  

And Belichick is CotY, right?  

[Maithanet]

4 minutes ago, Altherion said:

Not really, no. If you think about it, he has won one game so far against a decent team (the first one, which was uncomfortably close -- a bit lucky there with the missed field goal at the end). Although it is surely partly due to Darth Hoodie's competence, the Texans were just awful last night. 14 of the 27 points came off of 2 kickoff return fumbles (who does that?). Another 7 points (the 41-yard run) came at the end when the Patriots had blatantly given up on scoring and were trying to run out the clock. And they had no offense whatsoever -- forget touchdowns, they barely managed to leave their half of their field and apparently never made it closer than the Patriots 35.

Why wouldn't you give Belichek credit for the dominant performance his defense put together?  The Patriots are decimated offensively and both BB and the Texans knew this would be a defensive struggle.  But in spite of the fact that the Texans D is very good, the Patriots, with a 3rd string rookie qb on 3 days prep, could still put together long drives.  The Texans on the other hand, could do nothing.  They weren't just outcoached, they were utterly outclassed. 

 

9 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said:

Not every QB would tolerate playing in this structure, especially not an elite veteran.

Early in the 2014 season after BB traded Logan Mankins for a 4th rounder and the Pats O line looked like a joke, Brady was grumbling a bit to the press about how he'd taken a pay cut to help the Patriots surround him with talent, but they weren't keeping up on their end of the bargain.  This storyline gained momentum after the week 4 drubbing that the Chiefs gave them on MNF.  But then what happened?   The Patriots went 12-4 and won the Super Bowl.  I think Brady is probably done questioning Belichek's moves. 

[briantw]

15 hours ago, DanteGabriel said:

But would it end the "greatest coach ever" conversation?

Personally, I think all the cheating disqualifies Belichick from the "greatest coach ever" conversation.  I think he should have been banned from the league for Spygate, and I definitely think he should be blackballed from the Hall of Fame.  Spygate was so bad that the NFL literally destroyed the evidence so that it wouldn't ruin their reputation.  In any other sport, that would mean a lifetime ban.

[Jaime L]

45 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

What I meant to say is that if you could one of them for 10 years, you take Belichick. 

Or hell 20 years. If Brady retired tomorrow the Patriots would still be a top contender for years. If Belichick retired, it would all go to shit pretty fast. Look at what every single one of his lieutenants has done outside of the Belichick cocoon, including Billy O'Brien's stellar work last night.

27 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

 Did he come up with those conceptually? Cause that Angry Birds one is pretty damn funny. 

Not sure. My guess is the 172 hours he spent in Deflategate depositions gave him plenty of time to work on his material. 

[DanteGabriel]

8 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

Early in the 2014 season after BB traded Logan Mankins for a 4th rounder and the Pats O line looked like a joke, Brady was grumbling a bit to the press about how he'd taken a pay cut to help the Patriots surround him with talent, but they weren't keeping up on their end of the bargain.  This storyline gained momentum after the week 4 drubbing that the Chiefs gave them on MNF.  But then what happened?   The Patriots went 12-4 and won the Super Bowl.  I think Brady is probably done questioning Belichek's moves. 

Was Brady himself grumbling to the press? I remember I certainly bought in to a theory that criticisms voiced by Young and Dilfer came from Brady. And I ranted right after the KC loss that Belichick's neglect of offensive talent had written too many checks for Brady to cash and that he should hold out. I have also learned my lesson since then.

I'd not be surprised if Brady complained in private about the roster moves, but I think overwhelmingly he has been a dutiful (large and well oiled) cog in the Belichick machine.

[Maithanet]

6 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said:

Was Brady himself grumbling to the press? I remember I certainly bought in to a theory that criticisms voiced by Young and Dilfer came from Brady. And I ranted right after the KC loss that Belichick's neglect of offensive talent had written too many checks for Brady to cash and that he should hold out. I have also learned my lesson since then.

I'd not be surprised if Brady complained in private about the roster moves, but I think overwhelmingly he has been a dutiful (large and well oiled) cog in the Belichick machine.

I didn't realize there was any question, I thought it was obviously from Brady.  And really, Brady was right to complain at the time.  With most coaches, trading your best O lineman for a 4th rounder in a year with real championship hopes would be a terrible move. 

[DanteGabriel]

5 minutes ago, briantw said:

Personally, I think all the cheating disqualifies Belichick from the "greatest coach ever" conversation.  I think he should have been banned from the league for Spygate, and I definitely think he should be blackballed from the Hall of Fame.  Spygate was so bad that the NFL literally destroyed the evidence so that it wouldn't ruin their reputation.  In any other sport, that would mean a lifetime ban.

This is a dumb post. Yes, the NFL destroyed the tapes after letting a room full of journalists watch them on a loop.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

Wait a minute, it just dawned on me that there is a far more important question to ask:

 

Would @Rockroi be more or less volcanic if the Patriots stunk? 

[dbunting]

I guess looking at this I would say they are pretty equally important to the team success. Belicheck wasn't exactly tearing up the league before he and Brady came together. Brady shared time as a college QB and damn near went undrafted, so again, he didn't come into the NFL like Manning did.

As to is he the best coach ever...I think he is close to it. Comparing coaching now to what it was back in the 60's is really not fair. I guess I'd say there has been none better since the 2000's?

So 1960's Lombardi, 1970's Chuck Noll / Don Shula / Tom Landry, 1980's Bill Walsh / Bill Parcells, 1990's Jimmy Johnson / Marv Levy, 2000's Belicheck, 2010's Belicheck? 

 

I am sure my list could be refined by looking deeper into it but these all came to mind as being considered the best in a decade. Feel free to mock my list!

 

[Joe Pesci]

1 hour ago, DanteGabriel said:

At the risk of exposing myself to more Phil Simms voluntarily

If complications occur due to overexposure and we don't hear from you again after Tuesday night, know your sacrifice will be remembered.

[lancerman]

1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said:

Lol, someone's a little defensive about their sports hero.....

 

Look, the truth is most people have to fail, sometimes several times, before they find success, so I'm not going to hold it against BB that he couldn't fix La Factory De Sadness. And quite frankly, going 11-5 with Matt Cassel is the equivalent of Raptor Jesus descending from the heavens.

Really?

Funny because I remember Cassel  2 years later playing with the Chiefs leading them to 10-6 and their first playoff appearance in years, along with a pro bowl. 

I know it's not anything like going 11-5 after a 16-0 season. Guess Todd Haley is Raptor Jesus. 

 

Lets to just ignore that Bledsoe who was far and away the second best QB Belichick ever had went 5-11 and then 0-2 in the same season Brady helped them to a Super Bowl. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

@DanteGabriel,

I'd put it more at a 75-23 ratio. I've never seen a coach who can do more with less than BB can. I mean, he's running an offense designed around tiny white guys and a dominate no-name defense. 

Jamie,

100% agree. 

Brian,

I have to disagree. Most people believe that Rice is the best WR ever, yet he's admitted to using stickum for a long stretch of his career. I don't see anyone whose changed their mind after learning that. 

[lancerman]

1 hour ago, briantw said:

Personally, I think all the cheating disqualifies Belichick from the "greatest coach ever" conversation.  I think he should have been banned from the league for Spygate, and I definitely think he should be blackballed from the Hall of Fame.  Spygate was so bad that the NFL literally destroyed the evidence so that it wouldn't ruin their reputation.  In any other sport, that would mean a lifetime ban.

I'm fine with this if you want to go through a list of who you want to disqualify. 

Probably means Montana, Rice, Elway as well. 

Oh and every team in the league who was doing the same thing as the Patriots when the rule Spygate was a violation of wasnt enforced until a new commissioner came in.  Including the ones that admitted it to it. So let's ban Cowher and Johnson.  

Jesus. Do you actually know what Spygate was?