NFL 2016 Week 2: extending the mustache ride in LA

[DanteGabriel]

1 minute ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

I think that's the thing about him that is so maddening. He's clearly built the smartest, most disciplined team and system in the league. He has a leg up on everyone due to his natural football intelligence and his work ethic. And he can't seem to resist the temptation of seeking out an edge that pushes the definition of the rules over the line. 

Belichick cheated. It sucks. I am mad he defied the league memo prior to Spygate and jeopardized his legacy and the team's. Bob Kraft reportedly called him "a real schmuck" when they discussed it.

But it makes me mad that this shit doesn't stick to other known cheaters. That's why I engaged with the asinine Hall of Fame blackball proposal.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

Just now, sperry said:

There is a lot of good and bad that comes with the ego required to be world class at something.

 Very true. Just look at his sparkling personality!

 

/I don't care what any of you say about his "A Football Life" the man is a colorless boor.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

1 minute ago, DanteGabriel said:

But it makes me mad that this shit doesn't stick to other known cheaters. That's why I engaged with the asinine Hall of Fame blackball proposal.

I'm with you on that. Nothing he's been caught doing validates that level of punishment.

[DanteGabriel]

8 minutes ago, briantw said:

As far as Elway goes, if a team pays a player outside of the salary cap, the team should be punished, not the player, as the team is who benefits.  That's pretty much consistent with how all sports leagues handle such infractions.  What I would do is void the player's contract, fine the team a substantial amount, and dock them draft picks.  

Okay, let's punish the team. Cheating the salary cap and assembling an illegal roster sounds pretty bad to me. Let's void their championships won while cheating. Congratulations on the repeat championships, Green Bay Packers, and congrats to the Falcons for their first title!

But seriously, a player gets more money than a team should be able to pay them, and you say it's only the team that benefits? Seems like biased reasoning to me. I think it'd be fair to use Elway's acceptance of an illegal contract to taint everything he's done.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

 Pretty solid article on the genius of Belichick, spurred by his latest trouncing of the Texans...

  http://www.csnne.com/new-england-patriots/tom-curran-bill-belichick-adds-another-chapter-genius-legacy-new-england-patriots?utm_source=fark&utm_medium=website&utm_content=link&ICID=ref_fark

[Jaime L]

1 hour ago, lancerman said:

He went to a pro bowl and led another team to the playoffs. So it's sort of disengenious to act like he could only win with Belichick. 

And again let's be real, he inherited a 16-0 team. The team's record was worse than with Brady. His stats we're significantly worse than Brady. 

You know who was a real nobody after he started. Painter from the 2010 Colts. That's a guy who never did anything in the NFL again. 

So if you want to use the Cassel argument, we should admit he did things without Belichick, he was put in about as good a situation as possible, and he still compared very unfavorably to Brady. 

 

Matt Cassel was garbage. I'm not going to give him credit for Jamaal Charles dragging him to a playoff appearance with a superhuman season anymore than I'm giving Christian Ponder credit for when AP did the same for him. 

Hell the only reason he had a career was because Bill Belichick drafted and developed him for 4 years. I feel very confident that if any other team had drafted Matt Cassel, he's out of the league in a couple years.

Also note: Jimmy G can actually play but I think he should feel just as lucky about the organization that drafted him. Hell Tom Brady too. We've seen this play out a million times - a QB's fortunes are intimately tied to which team drafts them.  

[DanteGabriel]

3 minutes ago, Jaime L said:

Matt Cassel was garbage. I'm not going to give him credit for Jamaal Charles dragging him to a playoff appearance with a superhuman season anymore than I'm giving Christian Ponder credit for when AP did the same for him. 

Hell the only reason he had a career was because Bill Belichick drafted and developed him for 4 years. I feel very confident that if any other team had drafted Matt Cassel, he's out of the league in a couple years.

Also note: Jimmy G can actually play but I think he should feel just as lucky about the organization that drafted him. Hell Tom Brady too. We've seen this play out a million times - a QB's fortunes are intimately tied to which team drafts them.  

Brady has publicly entertained the same thoughts -- that he was lucky to be drafted and developed where he was, and he might have washed out of the league if he'd been drafted by, say, Arizona. Also: have the Cardinals been respectable for long enough now that people have mostly forgotten how consistently bad they were 15 or 20 years ago? We're only ten years removed from the "crown their asses" rant, right?

[dbunting]

So is Pete Carrol also on this black ball list?

To me, pushing the limit of the rules is just fine, no problem with it. If 80% of the teams were spying back then, the NFL should punish itself for allowing it.

I don't understand all the hate for the Patriots. Reminds me of how Dallas was treated back in the 90's.

[Bronn Stone]

Belichick is just better at cheating than anyone else.  GOAT.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

Just now, dbunting said:

I don't understand all the hate for the Patriots. Reminds me of how Dallas was treated back in the 90's.

 Well yeah, it's fair to say that jealousy plays a part in this. Pretty much every dynasty in every professional sport (with the possible exception of the Spurs maybe?) has had to deal with these sort of micro-criticisms. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

48 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

I think that's the thing about him that is so maddening. He's clearly built the smartest, most disciplined team and system in the league. He has a leg up on everyone due to his natural football intelligence and his work ethic. And he can't seem to resist the temptation of seeking out an edge that pushes the definition of the rules over the line. 

It's actually pretty easy to understand. If you're better than everyone else, but you think they're cheating then you might cheat too.

The best example is Bonds. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

47 minutes ago, Reny of Storms End said:

The true test of Belichek's greatness would be to see his record after a full season with Ryan Lindley at QB. 

That doesn't seem fair. At least let him have a real QB. How about Clipboard Jesus? 

[Joe Pesci]

Well maybe it's Edelman beating the Bills next Sunday...

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/09/23/report-jacoby-brissett-tore-a-thumb-ligament-may-need-surgery/

[DanteGabriel]

2 minutes ago, Joe Pesci said:

Well maybe it's Edelman beating the Bills next Sunday...

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/09/23/report-jacoby-brissett-tore-a-thumb-ligament-may-need-surgery/

Oh for fuck's sake. 

At least we can look forward to the entertaining press conferences where reporters ask Rex Ryan if he thinks two Ryan brothers can beat Belichick with no QBs.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

 All this Belichick talk this morning has got me crawling down the Rabbit Hole. Just read an interesting article about Ernie Adams, the so-called Belichick's Belichick...

 https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/01/29/mysterious-ernie-adams-patriots-man-behind-curtain/IrNCfgrysUphGpkcIjEaBL/story.html

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

I take it back. Bring in Lindley!!!!! 

"Whatcha gonna do, Whatcha gonna do when we Bag Boy you!?!?!?!?!?"

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

12 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

I take it back. Bring in Lindley!!!!! 

"Whatcha gonna do, Whatcha gonna do when we Bag Boy you!?!?!?!?!?"

BY GOD KING! THAT MAN HAS A FAMILY! 

[Joe Pesci]

So Brissett stays in the game with a thumb injury, Cutler takes himself out of the game with a similar injury. The shitstorm is going to be hilarious. Poor Droopy can't win...

[Jaime L]

1 hour ago, DanteGabriel said:

Brady has publicly entertained the same thoughts -- that he was lucky to be drafted and developed where he was, and he might have washed out of the league if he'd been drafted by, say, Arizona. Also: have the Cardinals been respectable for long enough now that people have mostly forgotten how consistently bad they were 15 or 20 years ago? We're only ten years removed from the "crown their asses" rant, right?

Yeah, my team, the Browns, the Bills, the Vikings, they break every young QB they get. Maybe each of these teams has been taking the wrong guys - I think the Browns clearly have - but I also wonder which of the washouts could've been successful if they'd gone to a more functional franchise in terms of protecting and developing their young talent. Would Big Ben be a star if the Skins drafted him? Not sure at all. How about Aaron Rodgers somewhere that isn't GB and didn't sit him for 3 years? Hard to say.  

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

9 minutes ago, Jaime L said:

Yeah, my team, the Browns, the Bills, the Vikings, they break every young QB they get. Maybe each of these teams has been taking the wrong guys - I think the Browns clearly have - but I also wonder which of the washouts could've been successful if they'd gone to a more functional franchise in terms of protecting and developing their young talent. Would Big Ben be a star if the Skins drafted him? Not sure at all. How about Aaron Rodgers somewhere that isn't GB and didn't sit him for 3 years? Hard to say.  

Why are we in that grouping? Ponder was a bust, but the others weren't:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/draft-finder.cgi?request=1&year_min=1961&year_max=2016&draft_round_min=1&draft_round_max=30&draft_slot_min=1&draft_slot_max=500&pick_type=overall&team_id=min&pos=qb&college_id=all&conference_id=any&show=all&order_by=default

I really liked Teddy, and Culpepper was beasting until his knee went out too. Frankly we haven't drafted many QBs in the higher rounds, and the results seem fairly mixed.