opinions on Viserys

[INCBlackbird]

I've recently started to really appreciate this character, mainly because I decided to write an essay on him (that I'm still working on) And I just realised that I have no clue how he's received in the fandom. He's not spoken about that much, I guess because he didn't live very long. So yeah, I'm curious. what do you all think about Viserys Targaryan.

[Liver and Onions]

Well, in retrospect, I feel pity for him. He's become a horrible person by the time we see him, and no surprise. He was orphaned at a young age, stripped of security and home, the only guy taking care of him died, he and his sister were turned out on the street... He somehow managed to protect young Dany during those years. (I can't recall how long they've been with Illyrio) When we see him in AGOT, he's devoid of diplomacy and blinded by his own elitism, making me wonder how he managed to survive, let alone take care of Dany. I doubt if he possessed great skill at arms. The World of Ice and Fire even gives us background on how Aerys was planning to disinherit Rhaegar in favor of Viserys. All of this clearly built up, and this isn't even taking into account a genetic pre disposal to madness present in the Targaryen line.

So... he's unquestionably awful, but he's not just some mad monster. We can see why he is the way he is. And I'm not surprised if Dany misses the brother who protected her while not mourning the man he came to be.

[Vaedys Targaryen]

15 minutes ago, Liver and Onions said:

Well, in retrospect, I feel pity for him. He's become a horrible person by the time we see him, and no surprise. He was orphaned at a young age, stripped of security and home, the only guy taking care of him died, he and his sister were turned out on the street... He somehow managed to protect young Dany during those years. (I can't recall how long they've been with Illyrio) When we see him in AGOT, he's devoid of diplomacy and blinded by his own elitism, making me wonder how he managed to survive, let alone take care of Dany. I doubt if he possessed great skill at arms. The World of Ice and Fire even gives us background on how Aerys was planning to disinherit Rhaegar in favor of Viserys. All of this clearly built up, and this isn't even taking into account a genetic pre disposal to madness present in the Targaryen line.

So... he's unquestionably awful, but he's not just some mad monster. We can see why he is the way he is. And I'm not surprised if Dany misses the brother who protected her while not mourning the man he came to be.

You pretty much just said everything that is on my mind in regards to Viserys.

[The Wolves]

I love him. He is the character besides Catelyn Tully that I feel pity for the most. 

He is also the reason I really really really hate the rebels(excluding Ned) and Robert's Rebellion. 

When we meet him he's the only character IMO that has the right to rage violently at the world. He's the only character where I can say that I understand why he's the way he is and has every right to be full of rage, sadness, and be broken. I'm not excusing of defending Viserys actions but he didn't deserve what happened to him, living through the deaths' of his whole family and having to carry the Targaryen legacy on his 7yr old shoulders plus making sure his baby sister survived(the rebels dealt him such an unfair blow and I hate them for that)it wasn't fair at all. 

 

[Lurid Jester]

He was a raging D-bag that got what he deserved.  Even Selmy comments that as a small child Viserys was showing signs of being the wrong side of the coin. 

No pity.  No remorse.  

Quote

"Some truths are hard to hear. Robert was a . . . a good knight . . . chivalrous, brave . . . he spared my life, and the lives of many others . . . Prince Viserys was only a boy, it would have been years before he was fit to rule, and . . . forgive me, my queen, but you asked for truth . . . even as a child, your brother Viserys oft seemed to be his father's son, in ways that Rhaegar never did."

ASoS Dany VI

 

[sifth]

He was a horrible cunt that beat his own sister and threatened the life of her child. According to Ser. Barry he was pretty horrible as a child as well.

[1000th Lord Commander]

Definitely carried the Targ madness, which blinded him to much of what he could have accomplished. He would have been a horrible king, no matter how he sat the throne, and if he had he would have swiftly been assasinated or deposed.

And yet look at Dany, without the madness. She hatches dragons, frees slaves and assembles herself an army with little to no help from others. Imagine if Viserys had ended up with the greatness side of the coin? He could have realised that Westeros could be taken later, after uniting the Free Cities or something equally as grand

[Rob Storm]

I see him basically as Aerion Brightflame without the skill at arms.  They weren't insane like Aerys or Blessed Baelor but they were entitled princelings who lacked basic intelligence to understand when their lives were in danger.  Acting out in a strange place with thousands of people of a different culture is just so stupid.  As is drinking wildfire or being an idiot around Breakspear.  Obviously Viserys faced a much more difficult life than Aerion and its hard to say how going from being fawned over at court to an orphan on the streets would change a person.  

It seems like there is a spectrum to Targ madness and to me he lies near Aerion rather than the others mentioned on that spectrum.  

[Ser Belwas The Strong]

Viserys yet another victim of the mad Queen, i do feel sorry for him, all his life protected his sister, found her a suitable husband, raised her to a position of power only to be betrayed and insulted by the mad Queen and Jorah even letting him die at the hand of the savages.

A hell of a character, a really sad story.

[Byfort of Corfe]

A guy in over his head who abused his younger sister, even to the point of almost raping her.  Life may have dealt him a hard hand but that's the same hand that Dany was dealt.  He sells his sister to Drogo not because he thinks that Drogo is a good match for her but because he and Illyrio want Drogo's army.  When Drogo finally kills him not even Dany mourns him, you can pity that or you can say that he drove everyone who might have cared for him away.  IMO he probably would have been as bad a King as Joffrey, with whom he has much in common.

[INCBlackbird]

13 hours ago, Lurid Jester said:

He was a raging D-bag that got what he deserved.  Even Selmy comments that as a small child Viserys was showing signs of being the wrong side of the coin. 

No pity.  No remorse.  

 

Well, children tend to be influenced by their parents, and take what they tell them as an unanalysed truth. While Viserys was a child Aerys was already mad, he didn't even allow him to be alone with his own mother because he was paranoid that even she meant him harm, so I don't think it's surprising that Viserys was influenced by that and didn't act like a normal child.

Given what we know from Daenerys about how Viserys cared for her and protected her but changed his demeaner over time I don't think he started off bad, he became so over time through what happened to him.

Also, I don't really think that the Targaryan coin is an actual thing. Like in universe people believe it but that doesn't make it true. If you look at any dynasty of kings/emperors in history there's always the good ones, the bad ones and the mad ones. Because power is not so easy to handle, many people aren't equiped for it. I don't think that's a Targaryan thing, that's a human thing. Another human thing is to simplify things as in "they're either great or mad" even though if you look at Daenerys for example, she does both good and bad things and if you look at how polarised the opinions on her are on the forum and all the people who call her either amazing or mad. To mee it seems like she is a combination of both and it depends on what you as a person focus on what you call her. I think that shows exactly that the Targaryan coin thing is bullshit, GRRM made Dany defy the Targaryan stereotype.

[The Marquis de Leech]

The Targaryen coin thing is indeed an exaggeration. Only two Targaryens display dynasty-destroying madness (Aerion Brightflame and Aerys II). The likes of Baelor the Blessed are mad, but harmless, while Maegor the Cruel was vicious, but seemingly sane.

Viserys? It's hard to separate any genetic mental illness from the terrible experiences he went through as a child. It's why I have far more sympathy for him than Joffrey, who is literally just a spoilt brat. Viserys *lost everything*, and has been scarred ever since, to the point where he thinks if he can just get his precious crown, everything will be OK again.

Incidentally, Harry Lloyd did an amazing job with TV!Viserys, in terms of evoking empathy for the character.

[SeanF]

46 minutes ago, Roose Boltons Pet Leech said:

The Targaryen coin thing is indeed an exaggeration. Only two Targaryens display dynasty-destroying madness (Aerion Brightflame and Aerys II). The likes of Baelor the Blessed are mad, but harmless, while Maegor the Cruel was vicious, but seemingly sane.

Viserys? It's hard to separate any genetic mental illness from the terrible experiences he went through as a child. It's why I have far more sympathy for him than Joffrey, who is literally just a spoilt brat. Viserys *lost everything*, and has been scarred ever since, to the point where he thinks if he can just get his precious crown, everything will be OK again.

Incidentally, Harry Lloyd did an amazing job with TV!Viserys, in terms of evoking empathy for the character.

I think that's right.  The first time I read AGOT, I was delighted when he got his crown of gold, but thanks to Harry Lloyd's portrayal, I now pity him (without excusing him).  I don't know whether he would have turned out better if life had dealt him a better hand, or if he would always have been horrible, though.

 

[SeanF]

4 hours ago, Ser Belwas The Strong said:

Viserys yet another victim of the mad Queen, i do feel sorry for him, all his life protected his sister, found her a suitable husband, raised her to a position of power only to be betrayed and insulted by the mad Queen and Jorah even letting him die at the hand of the savages.

A hell of a character, a really sad story.

Daenerys behaved like Patient Griselda towards her brother.

[Ashes Of Westeros]

34 minutes ago, Roose Boltons Pet Leech said:

Viserys? It's hard to separate any genetic mental illness from the terrible experiences he went through as a child. It's why I have far more sympathy for him than Joffrey, who is literally just a spoilt brat.

Good points. I guess Viserys was an unstable child, prone to cruelty and his traumatic experiences and lack of guidance just made it worse. He became an awful man in the end, but at least we see why he became like this. He develped a fixation on the crown and lost any sense of reality what eventually got him killed.

I think that Targaryen madness is more a legend that the truth. Though many Targs were kind of unstable and vicious, the main reason wasn't a mental illness but a deep sense of superiority sucked in with mother's milk. Even descent Targaryens such as Egg have a propensity for it and Viserys is unquestionably a bright example of it.

[SeanF]

1 hour ago, INCBlackbird said:

Well, children tend to be influenced by their parents, and take what they tell them as an unanalysed truth. While Viserys was a child Aerys was already mad, he didn't even allow him to be alone with his own mother because he was paranoid that even she meant him harm, so I don't think it's surprising that Viserys was influenced by that and didn't act like a normal child.

Given what we know from Daenerys about how Viserys cared for her and protected her but changed his demeaner over time I don't think he started off bad, he became so over time through what happened to him.

Also, I don't really think that the Targaryan coin is an actual thing. Like in universe people believe it but that doesn't make it true. If you look at any dynasty of kings/emperors in history there's always the good ones, the bad ones and the mad ones. Because power is not so easy to handle, many people aren't equiped for it. I don't think that's a Targaryan thing, that's a human thing. Another human thing is to simplify things as in "they're either great or mad" even though if you look at Daenerys for example, she does both good and bad things and if you look at how polarised the opinions on her are on the forum and all the people who call her either amazing or mad. To mee it seems like she is a combination of both and it depends on what you as a person focus on what you call her. I think that shows exactly that the Targaryan coin thing is bullshit, GRRM made Dany defy the Targaryan stereotype.

With royalty, or anyone who exercises untrammelled power, I think it can be hard to distinguish extreme behaviour from insanity.

I think that Daenerys is written to be a polarising character.  If she ultimately turned out to be a great ruler, that would be consistent with her story up till now;  and if she turned out to be a vicious nightmare, that would also be consistent with her story up till now.  Her coin is still spinning.

[SeanF]

It's interesting that in Dany's first chapters, we see how horribly abusive Viserys is towards her.  He threatens her, gropes her, intends to beat her, and infamously tells her "I'd let his entire Khalasar fuck you, all forty thousand of them, and their horses too, if that what it takes to get me an army." 

But, in ADWD, Dany almost looks back on him fondly, quotes him approvingly, and reveals, in her final chapter, that she feels immense guilt and remorse over his death.  That's very human, if irrational.

[The Wolves]

58 minutes ago, SeanF said:

It's interesting that in Dany's first chapters, we see how horribly abusive Viserys is towards her.  He threatens her, gropes her, intends to beat her, and infamously tells her "I'd let his entire Khalasar fuck you, all forty thousand of them, and their horses too, if that what it takes to get me an army." 

But, in ADWD, Dany almost looks back on him fondly, quotes him approvingly, and reveals, in her final chapter, that she feels immense guilt and remorse over his death.  That's very human, if irrational.

[INCBlackbird]

5 hours ago, SeanF said:

With royalty, or anyone who exercises untrammelled power, I think it can be hard to distinguish extreme behaviour from insanity.

I think that Daenerys is written to be a polarising character.  If she ultimately turned out to be a great ruler, that would be consistent with her story up till now;  and if she turned out to be a vicious nightmare, that would also be consistent with her story up till now.  Her coin is still spinning.

I agree, So many people are affected in rather extreme ways by their behavior. And I also think that since they are a public person, a lot of people have a lot of opinions on them and it's sometimes hard to know which ones are correct, also because the way these figures go down in history depends on the impression they left on most people, it's a simplified but version that is then often exaggerated.

And yes I think so as well. And that's why I think she shows perfectly that rulers aren't as simple as they are remembered to be, whether or not Dany goes down in history as a great ruler or a mad queen she still has aspects of both. The outcome will probably be what decides how people will remember her.

[Ser Duncan of Flea Bottom]

I don't hate Viserys to be honest, I pity him, but of course I would never wish a king like that, he was insane, Mad King 2.0