Werthead

Star Trek: Discovery

407 posts in this topic

9 hours ago, DaveSumm said:

 Plus it reeeeeeally looks like 10 years before Pine & Quinto and not Shatner and Nimoy despite which universe they claim it's in.

True. I can't exactly blame them for doing that because while fans know this is supposed to be set in the TV verse, I think the majority of new/casual viewers will expect it to be connected to the new films. Not sure how many casual fans will have the CBS service but it seems like the new show is designed for people watching outside the US. Unless it's in terms of trailer promotion :P

8 hours ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

That was dreadful.  So many things wrong.  Starting with the failure to learn that the prequel isn't the best way to go.

I'm still frustrated they didn't go with a next next gen route. So many opportunities and no risk of wrecking continuiuty. Are viewers really this obsessed with nostalgia? I'm not convinced, I think it's far more likely that we are suffering from a generation of writers who want to bask in the nostalgia writing the shows they loved. The prequel allows them to do that as they can write fan fic on throwaway lines in those shows. Whereas looking ahead requires them to break new ground.

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One of the less enticing trailers I've seen in a long while. They do not seem to grasp at all what Star Trek was about. And I agree that making a prequel is a very bad idea.

But the thing that puzzles me the more is the continuously mutating the klingon looks... what's the problem with the make-up from the TNG era? It was menacing, it was distinct, it was cool, it was iconic. Where did that unexplainable obsession to change it came from?

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, red snow said:

True. I can't exactly blame them for doing that because while fans know this is supposed to be set in the TV verse, I think the majority of new/casual viewers will expect it to be connected to the new films. Not sure how many casual fans will have the CBS service but it seems like the new show is designed for people watching outside the US. Unless it's in terms of trailer promotion :P

I was about to discuss the destruction of Vulcan but then I realised that wouldn't have happened yet......so the only difference is that 20 years before, a ship called the Kelvin mysteriously got attacked and no one ever saw the perpetrator again. What's the odds that they never mention the Kelvin and therefore leave it in either universe?

4 hours ago, red snow said:

I'm still frustrated they didn't go with a next next gen route. So many opportunities and no risk of wrecking continuiuty. Are viewers really this obsessed with nostalgia? I'm not convinced, I think it's far more likely that we are suffering from a generation of writers who want to bask in the nostalgia writing the shows they loved. The prequel allows them to do that as they can write fan fic on throwaway lines in those shows. Whereas looking ahead requires them to break new ground.

Yea there doesn't currently seem to be any major reason to set this when they have. Other than "hey look, Sarek! Mudd!" and just an excuse to not be at peace with the Klingons. The Klingons have become like the Daleks in DW, a crutch they'd be better off leaving alone. 

Ah, to see the Federation 16 years after Voyager with the capabilities of modern sci-fi shows......

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10 hours ago, RumHam said:

If only, but it's Seth McFarland of Family Guy fame.

 Oh snap!  It was Late! That's my Excuse!  It was autocorrect!  A hurricane!  Black helicopters!

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1 hour ago, DaveSumm said:

I was about to discuss the destruction of Vulcan but then I realised that wouldn't have happened yet......so the only difference is that 20 years before, a ship called the Kelvin mysteriously got attacked and no one ever saw the perpetrator again. What's the odds that they never mention the Kelvin and therefore leave it in either universe?

Yea there doesn't currently seem to be any major reason to set this when they have. Other than "hey look, Sarek! Mudd!" and just an excuse to not be at peace with the Klingons. The Klingons have become like the Daleks in DW, a crutch they'd be better off leaving alone. 

Ah, to see the Federation 16 years after Voyager with the capabilities of modern sci-fi shows......

At least it doesn't feature the Borg - leave that until season 2 if ratings are struggling.

I want this to work as it maybe increases the chance of a "after voyager" show at some point. Although I'd happily see this show die if it was standing in the way of such a show.

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Posted (edited)

Post-Voyager would be too overpowered with tech for my tastes.  I'm happy to go earlier, because there are plenty of room for good stories.

My only requirement from this show is that Michele Yeoh pick ups a bat'leth and wrecks some Klingons before she dies.  Sadly from that trailer I don't think that seems like it'll happen, and she'll be gone fairly quickly.

 

Edited by SpaceChampion

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58 minutes ago, SpaceChampion said:

Post-Voyager would be too overpowered with tech for my tastes.  I'm happy to go earlier, because there are plenty of room for good stories.

I know what you mean, I struggle to think of what exactly I'd want to see on a new ship technology wise. But then I think pitching it largely the same but with modern effects would make it all look so much smoother anyway. Call em quantum torpedoes, job done. It's not really the concept of a prequel I mind, just that it's so close to TOS that it makes it that much harder to squeeze it into your head canon that this series turns into that one. 

One idea I had is that the Federation could discover a highly labour intensive and energy intensive way of creating wormholes to anywhere. They only have one roll of the dice, so they create one to a different galaxy, send a ship through and explore. It'd be a good chance to completely start from scratch with all the races, although you could argue it's kind of what Voyager was supposed to do but just didn't do very well. But it seems there's not much left in this galaxy, what with the Borg in the Delta Quadrant, Dominion in the Gamma, Feds in the Alpha, Klingons bordering the Beta.

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7 hours ago, The hairy bear said:

But the thing that puzzles me the more is the continuously mutating the klingon looks... what's the problem with the make-up from the TNG era? It was menacing, it was distinct, it was cool, it was iconic. Where did that unexplainable obsession to change it came from?

There's a small but vocal subset of critics who claim that the 1980s/1990s look was "blackface" and racist, and they very much wanted them to go in a different direction.

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2 hours ago, Werthead said:

There's a small but vocal subset of critics who claim that the 1980s/1990s look was "blackface" and racist, and they very much wanted them to go in a different direction.

Wonder how Michael Dorn feels about being told he was acting in blackface... :lol: 

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The thing that confuses me is that Bryan Fuller said they were going to be setting the show in the "Captain Pike" era, before TOS, so they would be matching the aesthetics of the first Star Trek pilot.  (aka The Cage).  This looks absolutely nothing like that.  It looks more like Enterprise.  More jumpsuits?  Fuller also said that it would be in the "regular" Star Trek timeline, not the JJ-Trek one. 

As for the Klingons, I wouldn't have cared if they had ridgy Klingons, but why do they look completely different, even from the ridgy Klingons? 

I have a feeling that the network dropped the hammer on Fuller and made him go away from the look he wanted. 

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Posted (edited)

2 hours ago, Werthead said:

There's a small but vocal subset of critics who claim that the 1980s/1990s look was "blackface" and racist, and they very much wanted them to go in a different direction.

They seem to have basically the exact same skin tone in this, not to mention the fact that not all of them were dark skinned, Kang and Kor certainly weren't. I get the arguement for the look of the Klingons in the Original series, because in this day and age, that really teeters on the edge of acceptablity, but the 80/90s look, I don't see it..

That said, if they are just trying to work around the actually kind of racist look of the Klingons of the Original Series, and these are ones affected by the whole augment virus thing, I'm fine with it.

Overall, the trailer feels too Abrams-esque, too much flash, too modern for the setting they are putting it in when placed side by side with what came before.

Edited by GrimTuesday

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7 minutes ago, Spaßvogel said:


The thing that confuses me is that Bryan Fuller said they were going to be setting the show in the "Captain Pike" era, before TOS, so they would be matching the aesthetics of the first Star Trek pilot.  (aka The Cage).  This looks absolutely nothing like that.  It looks more like Enterprise.  More jumpsuits?  Fuller also said that it would be in the "regular" Star Trek timeline, not the JJ-Trek one. 

As for the Klingons, I wouldn't have cared if they had ridgy Klingons, but why do they look completely different, even from the ridgy Klingons? 

I have a feeling that the network dropped the hammer on Fuller and made him go away from the look he wanted. 

Fuller is not really involved anymore, so I really don't know what to expect.

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54 minutes ago, Rhom said:

Wonder how Michael Dorn feels about being told he was acting in blackface... :lol: 

JG Hertzler was white and Martok was pretty fair-skinned, but there was an argument with Robert O'Reilly, who is white, who played Gowron, who wasn't. Although as time went on they lightened his make-up a fair bit. But yeah, it's not really a controversy.

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5 hours ago, SpaceChampion said:

Post-Voyager would be too overpowered with tech for my tastes.  I'm happy to go earlier, because there are plenty of room for good stories.

My only requirement from this show is that Michele Yeoh pick ups a bat'leth and wrecks some Klingons before she dies.  Sadly from that trailer I don't think that seems like it'll happen, and she'll be gone fairly quickly.

 

That's us placing current development on the trekverse. To be honest, even pre-TOS is going to be "caveman-like" to what we should be capable of in the future (barring "dark ages"). The world of trek from Enterprise to Voyager is probably more static than our world has been over the last 50 years and if you can warp space/time and beam people around the world would be unrecognisable from what we currently have. Trek was always about looking at how we would look from today's world in one that was idealised and conveniently had technology that allowed us to connect to alien worlds/civilizations.

The way I look at sci-fi is, in essence, like fantasy where civilizations and technology largely stay the same. Although I do love when either genre manages a convincing sense of change.

3 hours ago, Werthead said:

There's a small but vocal subset of critics who claim that the 1980s/1990s look was "blackface" and racist, and they very much wanted them to go in a different direction.

Original series I could see the argument but "Next gen" on I find that hard to believe. I certainly hope it wasn't a shout-loud group that caused this to occur. I always equated Klingons as Klingons - not a stand in for a race (although if i were to draw parallels with a race I'd have thought Mongols of the Khan era because they were a kick ass military race without peer)

It's like changing Daleks because they portray people who can't use their legs in a negative way.

Pretty sure they change is more to a) put their stamp on the show b ) keep it JJ movie friendly and c) hopefully continue playing with the virus notion they had to explain TOS - film changes.

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I can't tell exactly how different they are, new Klingons seem to have the central ridges and foreheads, though not as pronounced , but the main difference is that all the new ones appear to be hairless, so they look a lot different than the more Next Generation looking Klingons with the long hair and beards.

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They kinda remind me of the Remans honestly. :dunno: 

Wonder if there was an outcry over actors protraying Andorians performing in Blueface?

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Posted (edited)

Remans, maybe. I was thinking Xindi.  Either way, it's stupid. 

Edited by Jaxom 1974

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8 hours ago, Leofric said:

I can't tell exactly how different they are, new Klingons seem to have the central ridges and foreheads, though not as pronounced , but the main difference is that all the new ones appear to be hairless, so they look a lot different than the more Next Generation looking Klingons with the long hair and beards.

I feel like they are becoming more reptilian from JJ to here.

Makes me wonder what the showrunners are trying to achieve - did they seriously think "fans will love this totally different take on Klingons". I'm sort of hoping they are still going for "fan rage" publicity and that there is an organic story for why they look like this. That way we can get the ones we like if it turns out those new klingons are a reason people are tuning out.

Yet again though, if the show had been set in the future they'd at least have an opportunity to change their appearance. If they just wanted to be at war with Klingons then looking at our own history, peace treaties don't last forever.

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Very unimpressed by that trailer.

"The Federation doesn't fire first!"

"We HAVE to!"

 

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I thought the "You can't plot a course without a star" line was the worst line of the ones I've heard.

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