MoreOrLess Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 Dorne in the books does to me definitely give the impression of retrospective plotting leaving inconsistency's The role on the show was pretty limited but I actually think you could argue that made a good casting more important, the big advantage of having a great actor well cast is that he can make an impression with limited screen time and build up. As it is I do think the character comes across as likeble and his death shocking although personally I think it should probably have happened at the climax of season 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Ravenstone Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 On 9/25/2016 at 10:12 AM, A spoon of knife and fork said: The Dorne plot in the books is terrible - at least Doran's character is morally consistent in the show. He just wants peace, period. Meanwhile in the books he expects the Targaryens to be pleased to have his help now that Daenerys has her own dragons and army and therefore don't need it, after ignoring them for 15 years. And while he likes to pretend to favor peace he actually is just as bloodthirsty as anyone and would accept child murder if it was required by whatever Targaryen he ends up backing. He's a hypocrite and a failure. And unlike in the books, when he fucks up he pays for it. In the books he screws up and has a rebellion on his hands but is saved by someone ratting out Arianne. Personally, I think that Doran's death was necessary in order for there to ultimately be a conflict between Dorne and Daenerys' forces. If Doran was left alive, then he would be a perfect ally for Daenerys to court - a rational, reasonable man who wants peace but who in the end would rather a Targaryen than a Lannister sit the Iron Throne. Instead, she has as her "allies" some over the top bloodthirsty villains who like to murder innocent children, including the niece of her top adviser. There is simply no way that this isn't going to be a problem that Dany and Tyrion will have to grapple with next season. I'd argue by killing Doran, D&D are actually returning to the future book storyline (which D&D likely know from conversations with GRRM) - wherein Danaerys will have to content with Aegon and his Dornish allies before she can finally take down Cersei. She will have to grapple with a choice between doing what's right and doing what's politically/militarially expedient - the kind of choice that she's by now faced numerous times. All that said - Siddig hasn't read the books. So a response to his comments can't really be "oh they should have followed the books and not wasted such a good actor" since he doesn't have that perspective anyway. His comments can basically be summed up as "I got a lot of conflicting information about how much and when I would film." Which makes sense, as obviously D&D did decide to increase and later decrease the amount of emphasis they put on the Dorne storyline. They probably had a bit more of a build up to Doran finally being murdered planned at first... and realized that people would rather be looking at the major, established characters rather than a bunch of over the top villains that Dany is going to take out next season anyway. Bringing the focus back to the main cast is a consistent strategy they have taken. It's why they even included Dorne in the first place (give Jaime and Bronn something to do). GRRM has said that Dorne won't play out anything like in the show Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dragon has three heads Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 I just can't forgive the show for this shit any more. here I was at season 5 ep 1 just hoping for it too all work out. nope. It somehow keeps winning writing awards for butchering the most engaging work of sic fi/fantasy ever written. Fuck. No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lockjaw of House Boltagon Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 Weren't we all, though? I will say, DnD deserve some kudos for actually making Dorne look worse in the show than in the books, which was no easy feat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Ravenstone Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 On 10/18/2016 at 5:22 PM, Lyin' Ned said: Weren't we all, though? I will say, DnD deserve some kudos for actually making Dorne look worse in the show than in the books, which was no easy feat. Book Dorne was alright. There wasn't anything badly written there. At worst you can write it off as not being terribly interesting. Show Dorne was just a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen of Procrastination Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 12 minutes ago, Lyin' Ned said: Darkstar and the Sand Snakes are badly written, IMO. I really loved Book!Dorne, but I can understand why others didnt't. I agree about Darkstar, but I acutally like Sandsnakes in the books (still I can understand why some people find them cartoonish). However, one of the problems with the Sandsnakes in the show is that they are not really diverse. In the books they look different, have different character traits and unique skill sets. In the show they seem all the same to me. Even as a book reader I found it hard to figure out who is who and I couldn't really tell them apart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dornishdragon Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 I also love book Dorne and it was the worst adaptation of the show so far so I understand Alexander Siddig, he was a good casting choice but could have been much better used if they introduced the Dornish Master Plan, and Arianne Martell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonSnow4President Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 2 hours ago, Lyin' Ned said: Darkstar and the Sand Snakes are badly written, IMO. Yeah, they're not great. Of course, the vast vast vast majority of the Dorne storyline is about the conflict within the Martell family, and focuses on Doran, Arianne, and Quentyn, and clearly ties into the Aegon story. The Sandsnakes likely serve a supporting purpose and will do something, but it's for the main characters to react to. Compare the screentime focus in Dorne on the show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firefae Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 He would have been an amazing Doran, no doubt of it. He did the best he could with what he got, and was the most likeable character in Dorne. I like Dorne in the books, but I can see why people don't like it. I think we will see more of Dorne in TWOW and that we delve more into it and the 'Dornish Masterplan', and in the Sand Snakes and Darkstar, who could become interesting characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyman Manderly's Meat Pies Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 3 hours ago, Lady of Whisperers said: However, one of the problems with the Sandsnakes in the show is that they are not really diverse. In the books they look different, have different character traits and unique skill sets. In the show they seem all the same to me. Even as a book reader I found it hard to figure out who is who and I couldn't really tell them apart. This is extra ironic because one's Italian, one's Maori, one's Chinese. Worse is I like all 3 actresses. They really got screwed here. Luckily at least Jessica got a main gig on Iron Fist and a cult following for her minor Star Wars character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen of Procrastination Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 25 minutes ago, Wyman Manderly's Meat Pies said: This is extra ironic because one's Italian, one's Maori, one's Chinese. Worse is I like all 3 actresses. They really got screwed here. Luckily at least Jessica got a main gig on Iron Fist and a cult following for her minor Star Wars character. I know that the actresses have completely different ethnic backgrounds, but they look more similar on the show than their book counterparts who are supposed to look really different. I mean that they are supposed to have different hair colours (Tyene is blond and has blue eyes and thereby looks completely different than Nymeria), eye colours etc. They also wear similar outfits in the show. I think they could have shown their diversity a bit more by giving the actresses different costumes. Apart from this look at their skill sets: Tyene is the seductress and uses daggers which are Nymeria's weapons of choice in the books. Nymeria uses the whip which is Obara's weapon and Obara uses the spear (which was also her weapon in the books). They also behave in a very similar manner in the show and don't really have their own character traits. The acressess get a lot of criticism for their acting, but I think that is unfair. Their characters are badly written and they have to deliver terrible lines. I doubt even Meryl Streep could have given us a good performance of the bad pussy line. Keira Castle-Hughes has been nominated for an Oscar and she seems to be an experienced actress. So far I've only seen Jessica in Star Wars and her role was not big enough for me to judge her acting abilities, but I look forward to seeing her in Iron Fist. In the past Netflix has done a really good job with the casting for it's shows and has used some very talented actors, so I doubt they would have casted her if she were a bad actress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsug Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 The Sand Snakes in the books were basically, "I'm the strong one!" "I'm the smart one!" "And I'm the sexy one!" The Show Snakes keep in that gimmicky vein. The best thing I can say is their costumes are cool so they come off as less comic-booky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Ravenstone Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 9 hours ago, Lyin' Ned said: Darkstar and the Sand Snakes are badly written, IMO. But why? Darkstar, I can kinda see since GRRM tried to make him cool and failed but the SS are supposed to be lacking. They're also minor villains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Ravenstone Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 16 minutes ago, dsug said: The Sand Snakes in the books were basically, "I'm the strong one!" "I'm the smart one!" "And I'm the sexy one!" The Show Snakes keep in that gimmicky vein. The best thing I can say is their costumes are cool so they come off as less comic-booky. Not really. Obara can be boiled down the strong one but Nymeria and Tyene are both smart and sexy and good at different things. Nymeria is more noble and specializes with blades and Tyene is more the sweet type that'll poison you discreetly. They're supposed to be lacking heirs to Oberyn because they each inherited specific skills from Oberyn although they're better at what they specialize than Oberyn was who is more good at everything. Tyene has his skills with poisons, Obara has his skill with a spear, Nymeria has his looks, nobility and skill with blades, Sarella has his intelligence and open mind and I'm guessing Elia has his horsemanship skills The Show Sand Snakes are if anything more gimmicky because they don't have backstories aside from Obara and have even less character. I can't really tell you the difference between Nymeria and Tyene except that Tyene is supposed to be sluttier??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonSnow4President Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 2 hours ago, Lord_Ravenstone said: Not really. Obara can be boiled down the strong one but Nymeria and Tyene are both smart and sexy and good at different things. Nymeria is more noble and specializes with blades and Tyene is more the sweet type that'll poison you discreetly. They're supposed to be lacking heirs to Oberyn because they each inherited specific skills from Oberyn although they're better at what they specialize than Oberyn was who is more good at everything. Tyene has his skills with poisons, Obara has his skill with a spear, Nymeria has his looks, nobility and skill with blades, Sarella has his intelligence and open mind and I'm guessing Elia has his horsemanship skills The Show Sand Snakes are if anything more gimmicky because they don't have backstories aside from Obara and have even less character. I can't really tell you the difference between Nymeria and Tyene except that Tyene is supposed to be sluttier??? And more importantly, the show sand snakes are a huge part of the Dorne story being told so far (for all the impact they've had, they could be a couple goons Ellaria hired, but the show chooses to show them anyway). They're literallyhalf of the named characters from that part of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon in the North Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 26 minutes ago, JonSnow4President said: And more importantly, the show sand snakes are a huge part of the Dorne story being told so far (for all the impact they've had, they could be a couple goons Ellaria hired, but the show chooses to show them anyway). They're literallyhalf of the named characters from that part of the world. But Show Dorne is such a small storyline in the show, saying the Sand Snakes are a huge part of that story isn't saying much at all. They're still incredibly minor characters in the show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Ravenstone Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 1 hour ago, Dragon in the North said: But Show Dorne is such a small storyline in the show, saying the Sand Snakes are a huge part of that story isn't saying much at all. They're still incredibly minor characters in the show. That's how big Dorne is in the books. Dorne gets 4-5 chapters altogether. And the SS only appear in two scenes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meera of Tarth Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 On 21/10/2016 at 4:24 PM, Lady of Whisperers said: I really loved Book!Dorne, but I can understand why others didnt't. I agree about Darkstar, but I acutally like Sandsnakes in the books (still I can understand why some people find them cartoonish). However, one of the problems with the Sandsnakes in the show is that they are not really diverse. In the books they look different, have different character traits and unique skill sets. In the show they seem all the same to me. Even as a book reader I found it hard to figure out who is who and I couldn't really tell them apart. they also have different degrees of motivation for revenge and this happens in only one Book scene iirc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meera of Tarth Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 On 22/10/2016 at 1:14 AM, dsug said: The Sand Snakes in the books were basically, "I'm the strong one!" "I'm the smart one!" "And I'm the sexy one!" The Show Snakes keep in that gimmicky vein. The best thing I can say is their costumes are cool so they come off as less comic-booky. yeah nipples in armours don't usually appear in comic books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsug Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 1 hour ago, Meera of Tarth said: yeah nipples in armours don't usually appear in comic books. i want you to know that i rolled my eyes when i read this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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