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Bittersteel: Sympathetic or unlikeable?


Canon Claude

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He is created as a character to be unlikeable, gloomy, bitter and with an one track mind. As a figure in the history of Westeros he stands out as the panultimate trouble maker. At the same time there are some aspects one can relate.

He thought he diserved more of... everything and it was denied to him. Perhaps he did and got nothing. That does make him a bit sympathetic. In the end he took arms and set to make things right by him. Like his father desposition, the world could burn for all he cared.

He is one of the guys that i really would like NOT to read about. We have to accept that some characters in ASoIaF's history are ment to be left alone.

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I like Bittersteel, he is driven and dedicated, real force behind of Blackfyre rebellions. He was great warrior and leader, his strong sense of commitment and loyalty was hinted multiple times, Stannis parallel is inevitable. Also he demanded his skull to be gilded and carried on a banner so he can return to Westeros with triumph, you don't get much more badass than that.

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I think that he's a little of both. From a Targaryen point of view he is of course a villain but his loyalty and dedication to the Blackfyre cause is not something that can easily be ignored and those are admirable traits. From the looks of it, it don't seem like personal enrichment or being driven to take power was part of him and much more. Like other others have said I hope we get more on him and I hope that Dunk and Egg will meet him and that we'll get more info in the Blood and Fire book.

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6 hours ago, Equilibrium said:

I like Bittersteel, he is driven and dedicated, real force behind of Blackfyre rebellions. He was great warrior and leader, his strong sense of commitment and loyalty was hinted multiple times, Stannis parallel is inevitable. Also he demanded his skull to be gilded and carried on a banner so he can return to Westeros with triumph, you don't get much more badass than that.

This. I can see why people hate him, but he is one of my favourite characters. That amount of commitment and that iron will, just impressive. But there is one thing where Bittersteel is better than Stannis and it is that Stannis fights for his claim and Aegor fought for his half brother and then his children, but I have to admit that parallel is pretty strong and there was a time when Stannis fought for his brother.

Plus I like this whole idea about GC, them being exiled and trying to return home and they are one of reasons why I root for Aegon, I just want to see Bittersteels skull in Throne room.

To sum up, I admire him and like to read about him.

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I think he's cool and had a reason to dislike both Bloodraven and Daeron, after all, it was thanks to Daeron he didn't get to grow up near his father or in the capital at all. Not just Daeron but he took the initiative to force Aegon to send him and Barba packing. I think the World of Ice and Fire is quite biased towards Daeron, they make him sound perfect, like he never did anything wrong. Taking away Daenerys from Daemon? Bringing the Dorne uner the fold, but under the circumstances that were more favorable to Dorne than the rest of Westeros? It was as if he had said "no, I don't really care what my own people say or think, I will make alliance with their old and bitter enemies and let them be my councillors!" Bloodraven accepted everything just as long as he got to do what he did-dabble in the black arts and get more influence and power. I don't dislike BR generally but as a person I think I am more like Aegor than Brynden, or if I lived in that world, I'd choose to be Aegor rather than Brynden. I am not much into scheming and working behind the scenes...well, working behind the scenes is not always bad but being involved in dirty politics and scheming is. Anyway, Bittersteel was a resolute man who'd take no shit from anyone and he urged Daemon to not play second fiddle to Daeron and to take what was his; after all, we DON'T KNOW wether the rumours Aegon set off about Dragonknight being Daeron's true father are false, we don't and we never will.

Anyway, Daemon represented a more orthodox version of the Targaryen king, would be, more oldfashioned perhaps, but still a more dashing version and one that has respect for the traditions and the chivalry. Him and Aegor were the very embodiment of knighthood. Yes, Aegor was pissed all the time, but can you blame him? He did enjoy war and fighting too much, but so what-he was half-Bracken, hehe. Without him at his side, I don't think Daemon would have the nerve to start the rebellion. Even with ser Fireball there.

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Completely unlikable. Even though I understand him perfectly what I dislike the most is how he urged and convinced Daemon to press his claim. His constant anger annoys me despite the fact that I generally like bitter characters because I do not think that anger is the best advisor. But maybe I'm biased because Bloodraven is one of my favourite characters

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Bitter his steel may have been, but worse was his tongue.

I love characters with a bitter tongue: Tyrion, Stannis, Olenna. One may not relate to them, but they bring some spice to the text.

We don't know a lot about Aegor Rivers, and what we know is from Targraryen point of view for whom he was a pain in the ass for decades. I think he was a little like Stannis in his determination and inclemency.

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On 26-9-2016 at 5:31 AM, siyxx said:

Totally unlikable. Such a great nickname to be wasted on this gloomy, bitter, broody man. 

Well... he is called BITTERsteel, you might have expected it.

To me, it seems GRRM writes ALL Brackens to be unlikeable and ALL Blackwoods to be likeable (I know Bloodraven also has a creepy vibe, but he still seems to be a good guy despite this, so far at least). He is clearly picking sides, which makes me wonder if this is going to be subverted in the coming books.

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2 hours ago, Ser Scott Malkinson said:

Well... he is called BITTERsteel, you might have expected it.

To me, it seems GRRM writes ALL Brackens to be unlikeable and ALL Blackwoods to be likeable (I know Bloodraven also has a creepy vibe, but he still seems to be a good guy despite this, so far at least). He is clearly picking sides, which makes me wonder if this is going to be subverted in the coming books.

I disagree. Bloodraven seems incredibly unlikeable. And he seems to have been killing people for a long time because they don't fit in his plan for the world.

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3 hours ago, James Steller said:

I disagree. Bloodraven seems incredibly unlikeable. And he seems to have been killing people for a long time because they don't fit in his plan for the world.

I think it is possible to like Bloodraven as the pragmatic guy who does horrible things because they are necessary. He seems to be on the right side. And that's sort of what I meant with my comment: the Blackwoods always seem to be on the right side and the Brackens on the wrong side, from the audience's point of view. Bloodraven supports Daeron and ends the Blackfyre Rebellion by killing Daemon and his sons, while Bittersteel is said to have planted the seeds of rebellion in Daemon's head. Tytos Blackwood keeps fighting for the Starks after the Red Wedding and gets besieged (probably keeps fighting only BECAUSE he gets besieged, but I'm talking about the image being painted to us) by Jonos Bracken, who quickly switched sides and is found by Jaime with a whore with Jeyne's crown. In tWoIaF in the Riverlands-section, it is also mentioned how when the Blackwoods formed a host to attack the ironborn invaders, they were themselves attacked in the rear by the Brackens.

So maybe you didn't like Bloodraven, but I hope you agree with me that the basic image GRRM is trying to point out is Blackwoods good, Brackens bad. And that makes me wonder if that is a ruse, SPECIFICALLY in regards to Bloodraven. Because, as I mentioned, Bloodraven is a creepy guy. Therefore, I think GRRM made the Blackwoods so likeable, and thus made the Brackens so unlikeable, to make us trust Bloodraven DESPITE him being such a horrible person. And then let it turn out that he isn't trying to help Bran and save mankind.

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7 hours ago, Ser Scott Malkinson said:

Well... he is called BITTERsteel, you might have expected it.

To me, it seems GRRM writes ALL Brackens to be unlikeable and ALL Blackwoods to be likeable (I know Bloodraven also has a creepy vibe, but he still seems to be a good guy despite this, so far at least). He is clearly picking sides, which makes me wonder if this is going to be subverted in the coming books.

I pretty much agree with this and I think its kind of a valley in GRRM's writing to have a fundamental conflict between one House of utter unredemable assholes and one House of smart, good and honorable people. In fact across thousands of years I can say two, exactly two things, the Brackens ever did that was right, join with the Blackwoods against the Andals and fight for Hoster against Aerys. While every Blackwood we see makes the right choice. It simply don't feel like A Song of Ice and Fire to me.

And the Peakes gets a similar treatment but more on that another time.

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On 25.9.2016 at 8:45 PM, The Princess of Ghosts said:

Completely unlikable. Even though I understand him perfectly what I dislike the most is how he urged and convinced Daemon to press his claim. His constant anger annoys me despite the fact that I generally like bitter characters because I do not think that anger is the best advisor. But maybe I'm biased because Bloodraven is one of my favourite characters

I sort of agree, also because I like BR. Though we got to know BR a little in Dunk&Egg while we know almost nothing about Bittersteel. He could be everything between Alliser-tier angry and Stannis-tier honorable.

I hope the story behind BR and Bittersteel goes a little deeper than the "Two brothers fell in love with the same woman and now hate each other"-stereotype. BR says something a long the lines of "I lost a brother I loved, a brother I hated" to Bran. It would be interesting if it turned out he wasn't talking about two brothers but one.

 

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