Jon Snow's bittersweet end?

[Bonkers]

Knowing GRRM's style of realistic story telling, and his promise of "bittersweet" ending to the series, I had a terrible thought...."what would be the MOST bittersweet thing he could throw at me to truly believe he had achieved that promise?"    ...and then it hit me.  Jon Snow. 

Jon's character arc is so finely crafted and as a reader I cannot help but root for him to find out who he is, take the mantle and be credited with recognition for his deeds and empowered by his knowledge of who he really is (bloodline).  He has brought the Wildlings south to safety, and will no doubt be remembered by the surviving Freefolk - and their children's children -  as a hero, and (once resurrected) a god-like figure.  His story will most likely follow a similar path to a degree as the show, in that he will unite the broken north, and most likely work with Dany to defeat the WW's.  He may even be connected to the dragons at some point. 

His story seems to be the only main character that is aware and actively fighting the real threat to the world - the WW's, however he does not do it for prophesy, or glory, he does it out of necessity.  Jon fight's the fight believing he is doing it for the benefit of all people, and he even died doing so, he is just doing what he knows he needs to do.  It seems to me he is living the prophesy without knowing the prophesy, whilst so many others are actively trying to fulfill it (Rheagar, Melisandre, Sannis, Dany, Drogo etc.). 

GRRM leaves so many hints, clues, tastes of Jon's past that we just want more, and we want him to know too.  He has been broken down and cast aside by nearly everyone for being a bastard son of Ned's, yet he still has a good heart and a noble goal.  We as readers know there is so much more to Jon and we can't wait for him to finally discover who he is.  But what if he never does?  That would be awful!   

I am one of those who believe that in Lyanna's tomb rests her bones, Rhaegar's harp, a wedding cloak with Targ sigil, her withered and dried crown of winter roses (given to her at Harrenhal) and a letter sealed with Rhaegar's Targ seal at the ToJ (probably explaining his bloodline, true Targ name etc).  Everything needed to prove his heritage.  (I also believe the black rose petals Ned remembered in her hands at the ToJ in his fever dream were actually the dried petals from the blue roses on that crown, turned black from age that she held while dying)  .... But what if Jon is not the one to discover this?  What if Bran sees it in a vision and it is only proven later, after Jon dies in the final battle? 

The MOST bittersweet ending I could get from GRRM is that Jon lived his life fulfilling a prophesy he knew nothing really about, never considering it.  That he was truly the Prince that was Promised and never knew, he just did what he felt he had to do.  That Jon died fulfilling that prophesy - twice - because it was his destiny.  All the people trying to fulfill it around him, but he was the real deal.  That he dies never knowing that, and never discovering who he really was.  That would be truly bitter.  However, the sweet part of the coin comes in the form of a tragic justice, kinda like Jimmy Dean.  James Dean only made three movies, he died before the third, Giant, was even out of post-production.  He became, and remains,  one of the most iconic figures in Hollywood history.  He died thinking he was just a poor actor trying to make some money, that he wasn't all that good and that he was a nobody.  Boy, was he wrong!  Jon Snow could be the same.  He may die before he realizes who he truly is and what he has done for the realm.  But his memory will be that of heroes, he will go down in folklore and have songs made of him.  He would be a hero/god to the freefolk, a king and legend to the realm. He will be remembered as the 'greatest warrior' of the age and have fantastic stories told of him throughout the ages. 

Please GRRM, that is a bittersweet end I would be heartbroken over, but I think there would still remain some satisfaction in the knowledge that he would be forever remembered for who he was and what he did. 

 

What do you guys think would be the most bittersweet ending, from Jon or otherwise?!!

 

[Cridefea]

6 hours ago, Bonkers said:

 

What do you guys think would be the most bittersweet ending, from Jon or otherwise?!!

 

First of all, I LOVE your profile pic! 

I think that the "bittersweet ending" is referred to all the stories in ASoIaF and, for me, it means a happy ending with many deaths among the main characters. As for Jon, I think he will know his origin, but he could die in the end. It would be bittersweet 'cause it's sad but the right thing (spoiler from the show) or maybe it could be the right thing if he will become a WW at some point.

[BRANDON GREYSTARK]

The bittersweet ending all the wolves will come together win the new war for the Dawn , give the Boltons and Freys their well deserved deaths , then go their own way Arya back to Essos ,Sansa to the Vale ,Bran back to the cave ,Rickon if still alive as warden in the North and Jon to the land of always winter to keep the new pact .

[ThePrinceThatKnewNothing]

I like your idea of a bittersweet ending. That would actually be tragic for Jon to never know who he truly is. I had an idea that Jon would sacrifice himself for Dany and for the realm. I know people don't want it but I believe Jon and Dany will fall in love. And I believe him sacrificing himself will be Dany's betrayal for love. 

[Jon's Queen Consort]

On 25/9/2016 at 9:38 AM, Bonkers said:

What do you guys think would be the most bittersweet ending, from Jon or otherwise?!!

I don't agree. I find more bittersweet for him to know that he isn't Ned's son and continue living than dying and never learning the truth about his parentage.

On the other hand, I believe that the bittersweet if for him to *betray* Ned, by breaking his vows, and becoming the King with the obligation to rebuilt Westeros being the bitter part and sweet for him to have a wife and children.

[Jô Maltese]

IMHO the bittersweet ending for Jon will be the death of the people he loves, probably because of his own choices for the greater good (he is one in 1000, unlike Ned or Jaime). Rickon? Arya? Dany?

[Aegon VII]

I agree with some of the other posters that the bittersweet end will apply to a lot more characters than just one. But with Jon being the main character it only makes sense that his would be the most bittersweet of all. One idea would be that he's remembered in history as a bad guy. A NW deserter who tried to bring the wildlings south. He could be remembered as a villain on par with the nights King. I like your idea of him never learning his heritage. 

Other ideas would be that he could kill Arya while she has another face on or kill his love dany to forge lightbringer (I don't think they'll fall in love, just throwing it out there). 

[TheDemonicStark]

I think Jon will become King after learning his true heritage, but he doesn't want to be, and has been forced into the role. Thus, he ends up lonely at the top. 

[The Wolves]

I think Jon will be dead dead when the series is over with cause that's life. 

[Dex drako]

"Now, I rest ... but you, Lord Snow, will be fighting those battles forever" 

there could be more turth to that then he knew lol but honestly people blow  the whole bittersweet ending think out of proportions. just because the over all ending is bittersweet doesn't mean no one gets a happy ending 

[Runaway Penguin]

1 hour ago, The Wolves said:

I think Jon will be dead dead when the series is over with cause that's life. 

Not sure he would be killed twice. By a twist, he might end up practically immortal by whatever will be used to revive him... Which in itself would be a pretty tough fate.

[Clegane'sPup]

He has lived his life as the bastard son of Eddard Stark. His whole life has been a lie. I think he learns of his parentage in a very discreet manner. Once he learns the truth of his parentage he must make a decision. I think he decides to remain Jon Snow, bastard of WF.

The thing he wanted to know most of his childhood was who his mother was. He finally finds out. He stays in the north and helps rebuild WF and House Stark knowing the truth of his parentage. He keeps his secret until his dying day.

[khal drogon]

Probably he will become the new Night's King as the prince that was promised to the Others.

[Sir Matthis Light]

When I hear or see the word "Bittersweet" I think of the word "Price". What that "Price" is I have no idea, but I do know I won't like it.

[Scorpion92]

Jon and Dany are two reformators and "breakers of chains", and "chains" in this case are traditions, superstitions, social and political system that are keeping down Westeros in dark age of feudalism and blood right. Everything they did and will do will destroy feudalism and bring much more democratic and better social system to a new country (and I do mean new, because Westeros will be reborn after Long Night).

I am of the opinion that they are both parts of "a prince that was promised" prophecy (Jon and Dany both have parts of "a prince that was promised", which makes me believe that neither will be the one, and we know how George likes to mess with prophecies), and their efforts will create a new and better world for future generations. But neither will survive and see "a dream of spring".

It shall be their son - "a prince that was promised", "Lighbringer", "a SONg of ice and fire" - whose birth will finally bring hope for devastated world and who shall be named Eddard Stark - the founder of a new royal dynasty of Westeros. That is right, House Stark will win eventually the game of thrones (not that they will sit the Iron Throne, because Cersei will burn it down along with capital, they shall have a new capital next to God's Eye and their castle will be in the image of destroyed Winterfell).

Sansa will be ruling the new realm as Queen Regent in her nephew's name (and be a mother to the kid, to contrast the situation with Jon and Catelyn) alongside her husband, Tyrion Lannister - Prime Minister and Minister of Finance (and a father figure to the prince).

They will also be parents to Lannister twins, a girl and boy, of Jaime and Brienne (both will die in the Throne Room against Cersei and Robert Strong trying to protect Arya and Sansa), therefore fulfilling the prophecy of "a dragon with three heads" (if Jaime is Mad King's bastard, then his twins shall have dragon blood too).

Tyrion will parallel Tywin and become a father figure to three kids - little Ned Stark and his niece and nephew (the girl will be Catelyn Lannister, book it).

The book will end with new generation of Stark and Lannister kids growing up together and be siblings to each other, to hammer down George's main philosophy of this series about how the war is futile and unneccessary and very ugly and destroys thousands of lives. That is a perfect bittersweet ending to me.

[Bowen Marsh]

Jon should just really stay dead.  After all, one of the ironies of the story is his treason at the wall.  He knew the coming threat.  He was entrusted by his brothers to defend the wall.  But he betrayed all of that for one little girl, fArya/Jeyne.  His actions actually caused the biggest mess at the wall since the Night's King.  He doesn't deserve to get resurrected. 

All the bitterness doesn't have to come at the end.  Although it would be a treat for me for Jon to stay dead some fans would find that bitter.  I could see the deaths of Arya, Bran, Cersei, and Jaime.  The entire north will remain blanketed by ice for fifty years or more.  All the noble families and houses in the north, gone. 

[Curled Finger]

@Bonkers, I get what you mean.    Jon is the obvious hero and your favorite, I suspect.   I think your scenario would be devastating for all Jon fans, not just bittersweet.   I read GRRM likened his bittersweet ending to that of The Lord of the Rings, which was, a brilliant ending in my humble opinion.   As @Sir Matthis Light supposes, this probably means a price.  I think it's safe to say we've all pondered the price of normalizing seasons, balancing forces, fair rule and complete annihilation of the Others.   ASOIAF is so entrenched in ancient mythology, fairy tale and real history it transcends your basic fantasy tale.   So how will it play out?  

If Jon is the hero of the tale, and it's not an unreasonable assumption, does his not learning his true parentage serve his or the greater tale overall?   I suppose it could be done masterfully by this author, but I can't see how it would serve other than to frustrate the readers.   What does it matter to Jon if it has no impact on his arc?   All these characters are tragic and tragic was the word that came to mind when I asked myself.   

Take heart, whatever happens to Jon will serve Jon's story as much as Jon's fans.   It would almost be easier for some Jon fans not to deal with Jon's Targness--to allow him to keep on his badass way as a bastard son of Ned Stark.   

[The Wolves]

31 minutes ago, Mr. Bowen Marsh said:

Jon should just really stay dead.  After all, one of the ironies of the story is his treason at the wall.  He knew the coming threat.  He was entrusted by his brothers to defend the wall.  But he betrayed all of that for one little girl, fArya/Jeyne.  His actions actually caused the biggest mess at the wall since the Night's King.  He doesn't deserve to get resurrected. 

All the bitterness doesn't have to come at the end.  Although it would be a treat for me for Jon to stay dead some fans would find that bitter.  I could see the deaths of Arya, Bran, Cersei, and Jaime.  The entire north will remain blanketed by ice for fifty years or more.  All the noble families and houses in the north, gone.

To the bolded, y'all theories are getting more and more ridiculous.

Does anyone pay attention to the books anymore? 

[Ashes Of Westeros]

8 hours ago, Aegon VII said:

One idea would be that he's remembered in history as a bad guy. A NW deserter who tried to bring the wildlings south. He could be remembered as a villain on par with the nights King. I like your idea of him never learning his heritage. 

I agree with it. Probably Danenerys would be remebered as a hero, who send her dragons to fight the Others, but Jon will be remebered as a villain. Or he learns about his parentage but it will make no difference. Or that he will never be loved himself. He did many things for love but he would never know how it feels to be loved.

[Ser Scott Malkinson]

On 25-9-2016 at 2:44 PM, Cridefea said:

First of all, I LOVE your profile pic! 

I think that the "bittersweet ending" is referred to all the stories in ASoIaF and, for me, it means a happy ending with many deaths among the main characters. As for Jon, I think he will know his origin, but he could die in the end. It would be bittersweet 'cause it's sad but the right thing (spoiler from the show) or maybe it could be the right thing if he will become a WW at some point.

A happy ending with a lot of deaths does not make an ending bittersweet IMO. I interpret it to mean a somewhat happy ending at a great cost, which would include some major deaths, but other forms of tragedy as well. If we look at what GRRM has to say about it:

Quote

The number one question people ask me about the series is whether I think everyone will lose—whether it will end in some horrible apocalypse. I know you can’t speak to that specifically, but as a revisionist of epic fantasy—

I haven’t written the ending yet, so I don’t know, but no. That’s certainly not my intent. I’ve said before that the tone of the ending that I’m going for is bittersweet. I mean, it’s no secret that Tolkien has been a huge influence on me, and I love the way he ended Lord of the Rings. It ends with victory, but it’s a bittersweet victory. Frodo is never whole again, and he goes away to the Undying Lands, and the other people live their lives. And the scouring of the Shire—brilliant piece of work, which I didn’t understand when I was 13 years old: “Why is this here? The story’s over?” But every time I read it I understand the brilliance of that segment more and more. All I can say is that’s the kind of tone I will be aiming for. Whether I achieve it or not, that will be up to people like you and my readers to judge.

 

ETA: The Last of Us spoilers

Spoiler

The Last of Us would be an example of a bittersweet ending without main characters dying. It's still a somewhat happy ending, but it's a bit sad as well, and a bit ambiguous. I think GRRM may be going more for this sort of mix than for a typical hero-sacrifices-himself-to-save-the-world-type-ending or even a LotR-type-ending.