trickster Posted September 30, 2016 Share Posted September 30, 2016 5 hours ago, Nictarion said: The numbers Dalton is putting up with a really poor oline suggest quite the opposite. He literally has one weapon with Eifert out. His 2nd leading receiver right now is Giovanni Bernard, a running back. Dalton is easily a top 10 QB. You sure about that. In the AFC QBs who are clearly better 1. Brady 2. Fat Bastard 3. Luck 4. Rivers In the NFC QBs clearly better 1. Rodgers 2. Wilson 3. Palmer 4. Brees 5. Ryan 6. Manning 7. Romo 8. Newton Then you MAY need to consider Elite Flacco, Derek Carr, Alex Smith in the AFC and Stafford and Bradford from NFC. I am not even considering Winston/Mariota and Wentz. So not an easy top 10 QB imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay B. Posted September 30, 2016 Share Posted September 30, 2016 You forgot Newton, also. I would put Dalton in the 11-15 range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mexal Posted September 30, 2016 Share Posted September 30, 2016 Not going to argue where Dalton belongs in the list of QBs. Last year, he was excellent. This year, he's been good, but incapable of scoring in the Red Zone. A few things that are frustrating when I watch. 1. His weapons are limited to AJ Green, similar to pre-2013. Lafell, Boyd, Uzomah are all new and not great right now. Losing Marvin Jones was huge as predicted. 2. The running game is the worst in the league. For a team with two 2nd round pick RBs who have shown to be pretty good at different points of their career, they're averaging under 3 ypc. That's not really on them from what I've seen but on the OL which has gotten zero push and is incapable of blocking in space. 3. Zampese, our latest OC, hasn't found a groove yet. We move the ball fine between the 20s but holy fuck are we the worst team in the red zone right now. Fix this trend and this team becomes very dangerous. If the Bengals manage to beat Dallas next week and come out of their first 6 games against NYJ, Pitt, Den, Mia, Dal, NE at 3-3, they'll be in a pretty decent position. The back half of their schedule isn't all that tough and as long as they stay healthy, they should be able to find a way back into the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trickster Posted September 30, 2016 Share Posted September 30, 2016 1 hour ago, Ramsay Blow said: You forgot Newton, also. I would put Dalton in the 11-15 range. My bad, I thought I had him on the list..corrected now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nictarion Posted September 30, 2016 Share Posted September 30, 2016 1 hour ago, trickster said: You sure about that. In the AFC QBs who are clearly better 1. Brady 2. Fat Bastard 3. Luck 4. Rivers In the NFC QBs clearly better 1. Rodgers 2. Wilson 3. Palmer 4. Brees 5. Ryan 6. Manning 7. Romo Then you MAY need to consider Elite Flacco, Derek Carr, Alex Smith in the AFC and Stafford and Bradford from NFC. I am not even considering Winston/Mariota and Wentz. So not an easy top 10 QB imo. Yes. I'm sure. There's maybe 5 or 6 guy's on that list I put in front of him. These things are subjective ofc, but Dalton's stats speak for them self. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trickster Posted September 30, 2016 Share Posted September 30, 2016 3 minutes ago, Nictarion said: Yes. I'm sure. There's maybe 5 or 6 guy's on that list I put in front of him. These things are subjective ofc, but Dalton's stats speak for them self. Just curious, who are those 5 or 6? Plus Newton obviously. That number is astoundingly small. And yes my list is subjective. But still..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mexal Posted September 30, 2016 Share Posted September 30, 2016 4 minutes ago, trickster said: Just curious, who are those 5 or 6? Plus Newton obviously. That number is astoundingly small. And yes my list is subjective. But still..... Think the obvious ones are: Brady, Brees, Roethlisberger, Newton, Rodgers and Wilson. Every other player after that has their own issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nictarion Posted September 30, 2016 Share Posted September 30, 2016 Just now, Mexal said: Think the obvious ones are: Brady, Brees, Roethlisberger, Newton, Rodgers and Wilson. Every other player after that has their own issues. Pretty much this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trickster Posted September 30, 2016 Share Posted September 30, 2016 Don't want to be a total homer, but are we saying Dalton and Luck are on the same tier? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mexal Posted September 30, 2016 Share Posted September 30, 2016 1 minute ago, trickster said: Don't want to be a total homer, but are we saying Dalton and Luck are on the same tier? Sure, why not. Luck has been horribly inconsistent over his career. Yes, he was crowned the next Peyton Manning before he came out of college but he hasn't lived up to actually being Peyton Manning. Luck was great in 2014 but he's been pedestrian every year since with some wow throws but some terrible decision making as well. Will he be better than Dalton? Probably. But can it be argued Dalton has been better? Of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhom Posted September 30, 2016 Share Posted September 30, 2016 I've only seen a snippet of Saints games this year, but are we giving Brees the benefit of the doubt because he has been so great in the past? Is he still a top 5 QB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mexal Posted September 30, 2016 Share Posted September 30, 2016 16 minutes ago, Rhom said: I've only seen a snippet of Saints games this year, but are we giving Brees the benefit of the doubt because he has been so great in the past? Is he still a top 5 QB? Nah. He was great last year and has been really good this year. The biggest issue that team has is their defense is horrendous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkynJay Posted September 30, 2016 Share Posted September 30, 2016 I looked through that list and have Dalton at 8 or 9 based on the names on it. Based on how they have played the last two years I am pushing him ahead of Ryan and Rivers. I don't think Romo plays again so in a technical sense he has to come off the list as well. But I am putting Stafford into the top ten in one of their places. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbunting Posted September 30, 2016 Share Posted September 30, 2016 10 hours ago, Nictarion said: I like our white tiger uni's. Would be even better with a white & black helmet though. That would have been interesting. Instead of the basically a blank white sheet uniform that they wore. Would have made more sense to have the helmets match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime L Posted September 30, 2016 Share Posted September 30, 2016 3 hours ago, Mexal said: 3. Zampese, our latest OC, hasn't found a groove yet. We move the ball fine between the 20s but holy fuck are we the worst team in the red zone right now. Fix this trend and this team becomes very dangerous. This is an outrageous statement. It's like you haven't even watched the DC Grudens at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mexal Posted September 30, 2016 Share Posted September 30, 2016 3 minutes ago, Jaime L said: This is an outrageous statement. It's like you haven't even watched the DC Grudens at all. Hah, I haven't! But, Gruden was awesome 2013, his 3rd year, at RZ play calling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maithanet Posted September 30, 2016 Share Posted September 30, 2016 5 minutes ago, Mexal said: Hah, I haven't! But, Gruden was awesome 2013, his 3rd year, at RZ play calling. He was good last year at red zone play calling. But this year, with essentially all the same offense, we are atrocious. Even counting last game, Cincy is 30% red zone td efficiency (29th in the league), while we are 21% (31st in league). But apparently we should thank our lucky stars we aren't the #32 Texans, who are a baffling 14.9%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime L Posted September 30, 2016 Share Posted September 30, 2016 9 minutes ago, Maithanet said: He was good last year at red zone play calling. But this year, with essentially all the same offense, we are atrocious. Even counting last game, Cincy is 30% red zone td efficiency (29th in the league), while we are 21% (31st in league). But apparently we should thank our lucky stars we aren't the #32 Texans, who are a baffling 14.9%. That's an amazing stat. I can see why the Texans didn't want to make it to the RZ at all against the Patriots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted September 30, 2016 Share Posted September 30, 2016 3 hours ago, Rhom said: I've only seen a snippet of Saints games this year, but are we giving Brees the benefit of the doubt because he has been so great in the past? Is he still a top 5 QB? He's been really good against bad defenses (Oak and Atl) and not so hot against the one decent defense he's faced (NYG). He sure as hell has the weapons to still be great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperry Posted September 30, 2016 Share Posted September 30, 2016 Dalton played last season with A.J. Green, Mohammed Sanu, Marvin Jones, and Tyler Eifert, as well as a very good running back duo. He should have put up historic numbers. When people evaluate quarterbacks they do a really bad job of factoring in the talent those guys are playing with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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