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NFL 2016 Week 3/4: The Darkness Peers Back


Jace, Extat

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8 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

 ^^^^ Interesting point, but I'm not sure I buy it. If you look at the recent crop of Superbowl winners, you pretty much have to go back to the Packers in 2011 to find one that isn't defensively top-heavy. 

2010 Packers were great defensively. 2nd in points allowed and Defensive DVOA. Aaron Rodgers hasn't won a Superbowl since their defense started regressing.

6 minutes ago, SerPaladin said:

Show of hands, who thought the Eagles had a pair of undefeated QBs on their roster in August? They could probably trade Chase Daniel away for a couple first rounders..."our QBs can't lose".

We're in "wait and see" mode depending on how Cousins looks against the Ravens but keep your phone lines open. 

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16 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

 ^^^^ Interesting point, but I'm not sure I buy it. If you look at the recent crop of Superbowl winners, you pretty much have to go back to the Packers in 2011 to find one that isn't defensively top-heavy. 

Superbowl winners tend to select differently. And while it's true that most of the winners have been good defensively (I'd argue against the Pats here, but whatever) the league as a whole hasn't been particularly defense-heavy, and point of fact we've had the highest offense production ever in that period of time with multiple 5000 yard QBs, highest scoring outputs, etc. 

This season is different in that we don't have any really good offenses yet (presumably we'll get at least one when Brady gets back) but we apparently have several really great defenses. Even 2015 wasn't that way - only Denver stood out as an incredible defense.

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2 hours ago, Jaime L said:

Eli, yes. Not the same guy. OBJ's entering his 3rd year now after, I believe, the best first two seasons ever. No way he's declining. He's just getting frustrated by CBs who know how to mess with him and an offense that seems to forget he's there in favor of the immortal Bobby Raineys and Will Tyes of the world and when it remembers him throws him 7 yard outs. 

I get why they needed to bring in Ben McAdoo to get the ball out faster from the deep ball/high risk offense they had under Gilbride, but dude, when you have a generational talent find a way to use him FFS. 

Like Ace said, it was just a joke. And trust me, the Giants were doing everything they could to get him the ball. It's just that Rhodes had him locked down and Eli was rushing all his passes so they didn't really have much of a chance. 

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16 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

This season is different in that we don't have any really good offenses yet (presumably we'll get at least one when Brady gets back)

 I'm not so sure. Atlanta and New Orleans have been putting up crazy offensive numbers. Probably in part because their own defenses are bad, so they find themselves in shootouts more often than not, and because they've faced some bad defenses. Atlanta seems especially loaded.

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Just now, Tywin et al. said:

Their D was good too. They created a ton of turnovers iirc. 

Yeah, but it wasn't as good as the offense. I guess that's kind of my barometer or definition for a top-heavy defense. The defense is the reason the team wins, more often than not. That's kind of why I stopped at the 2011 Packers. I'd still say the offense was the superior unit.

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4 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

Yeah, but it wasn't as good as the offense. I guess that's kind of my barometer or definition for a top-heavy defense. The defense is the reason the team wins, more often than not. That's kind of why I stopped at the 2011 Packers. I'd still say the offense was the superior unit.

I'd argue that the biggest reason teams in the NFL win is because they have talent at value across the board. Once teams have to start handing out major contracts to several key players they typically decline over all. 

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35 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Like Ace said, it was just a joke. And trust me, the Giants were doing everything they could to get him the ball. It's just that Rhodes had him locked down and Eli was rushing all his passes so they didn't really have much of a chance. 

They really weren't. They didn't even glance his way until they were down 14-0. Trust me, I very was paying close attention to this due to a very tight FFL matchup where I needed OBJ to perform. God it was infuriating. 

Also it's super easy for any CB to stick with a WR if the QB is trying to get rid of the ball in under 1.5 seconds every time. The Giants played scared. Maybe they would've lost worse if they gave Eli free reign to make things happen Big Ben style, but at least they would've forced the Vikings D to be as great as we all believe they are. 

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2 hours ago, Jaime L said:

They really weren't. They didn't even glance his way until they were down 14-0. Trust me, I very was paying close attention to this due to a very tight FFL matchup where I needed OBJ to perform. God it was infuriating. 

Also it's super easy for any CB to stick with a WR if the QB is trying to get rid of the ball in under 1.5 seconds every time. The Giants played scared. Maybe they would've lost worse if they gave Eli free reign to make things happen Big Ben style, but at least they would've forced the Vikings D to be as great as we all believe they are. 

This was my diagnosis as well.

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8 hours ago, Jaime L said:

They really weren't. They didn't even glance his way until they were down 14-0. Trust me, I very was paying close attention to this due to a very tight FFL matchup where I needed OBJ to perform. God it was infuriating. 

Also it's super easy for any CB to stick with a WR if the QB is trying to get rid of the ball in under 1.5 seconds every time. The Giants played scared. Maybe they would've lost worse if they gave Eli free reign to make things happen Big Ben style, but at least they would've forced the Vikings D to be as great as we all believe they are. 

Pretty much this. They drive me insane but they've been doing it for the last few years now. Playing scared, letting other teams dictate the game and getting away from their strengths. Vikes D is great but like you said, go at them. They looked so soft yesterday.

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19 hours ago, Jaime L said:

They really weren't. They didn't even glance his way until they were down 14-0. Trust me, I very was paying close attention to this due to a very tight FFL matchup where I needed OBJ to perform. God it was infuriating. 

Also it's super easy for any CB to stick with a WR if the QB is trying to get rid of the ball in under 1.5 seconds every time. The Giants played scared. Maybe they would've lost worse if they gave Eli free reign to make things happen Big Ben style, but at least they would've forced the Vikings D to be as great as we all believe they are. 

Well to be fair they didn't do anything in general for their first few drives. They did target Beckham 9 times, and they might have been trying to target him more, but Eli kept throwing the ball away, sometimes for seemingly no reason. 

I think you're also not giving our DBs their due credit. The Giants WRs got very little separation the entire game, and this has been a pattern for the entire season. Last week the Panthers top 2 receivers were targeted a grand total of 3 times. The dominate pass rush certainly helps a lot, but our DBs are really damn good on their own. 

 

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5 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Well to be fair they didn't do anything in general for their first few drives. They did target Beckham 9 times, and they might have been trying to target him more, but Eli kept throwing the ball away, sometimes for seemingly no reason. 

I think you're also not giving our DBs their due credit. The Giants WRs got very little separation the entire game, and this has been a pattern for the entire season. Last week the Panthers top 2 receivers were targeted a grand total of 3 times. The dominate pass rush certainly helps a lot, but our DBs are really damn good on their own. 

 

A good secondary will typically make a defensive line seem much better too, while a good line w/out a decent secondary is very exploitable.  A few years ago the vikings had a good line & a good linebacker core, but constantly got torched by their weak secondary.  This secondary is really good.

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The biggest thing about the Vikings D is how deep they are. The ability to keep guys fresh and rotate is huge. That's the model that Alabama is built on in college football, but you usually can't do that in the NFL with 53 man rosters and a salary cap.

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21 minutes ago, sperry said:

The biggest thing about the Vikings D is how deep they are. The ability to keep guys fresh and rotate is huge. That's the model that Alabama is built on in college football, but you usually can't do that in the NFL with 53 man rosters and a salary cap.

Ah, the yearly 'I love whatever team Bradford is on' rotation

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49 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

Ah, the yearly 'I love whatever team Bradford is on' rotation

 

Never claimed anything other than being a fan of former Sooners in the NFL. I root for them all individually, and it's easiest to root for a team with an OU quarterback since that position drives success at such a disproportionate rate compared to other positions.

 

Doesn't hurt that he's finally in a decent situation and making the most of it so far.

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2 minutes ago, sperry said:

 

Never claimed anything other than being a fan of former Sooners in the NFL. I root for them all individually, and it's easiest to root for a team with an OU quarterback since that position drives success at such a disproportionate rate compared to other positions.

 

Doesn't hurt that he's finally in a decent situation and making the most of it so far.

Bradford is indeed making the most of it....Didn't think he had it tbh. Good for him. I think the Vikes will keep him beyond this year if he continues his current form and (a big) if he stays healthy. 

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1 hour ago, sperry said:

 

Never claimed anything other than being a fan of former Sooners in the NFL. I root for them all individually, and it's easiest to root for a team with an OU quarterback since that position drives success at such a disproportionate rate compared to other positions.

 

Doesn't hurt that he's finally in a decent situation and making the most of it so far.

I do the same thing.  Tannehill, Michael, Evans, Ifedi, Miller, Jake Matthews, I follow them all, and if they're not facing the Cowboys, I'll root for them (Broncos first and foremost since I was there for Von years)

1 hour ago, trickster said:

Bradford is indeed making the most of it....Didn't think he had it tbh. Good for him. I think the Vikes will keep him beyond this year if he continues his current form and (a big) if he stays healthy. 

Finally has a competent team around him apparently.  Fischer doesn't inspire a lot of confidence, and the Eagles were a mess last year.

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