Which characters knew Jon Snow is Lyanna and Rhaegar's son, apart from Ned and Howland?

[Fencer]

Personally, I believe Benjen knows.  While Ned never told Catelyn, I don't know that he would deny his brother (and also Lyanna's bother and Jon's uncle, therefore on equal footing with Ned) this knowledge, especially given how close Benjen and Lyanna appear to have been.  Maybe that influenced Benjen's decision to take the black, and I think certainly played a part in Jon's eventual recruitment to the Night's Watch.

From a literary perspective, this also makes much more sense for Benjen's character; instead of being a throw-away that has gone largely unremarked since the first book, his return, if it were to happen, could provide this information to Jon in a much more impactful and unquestionable manner than other alternatives.

Textual evidence?  No much.  But from a character and story point of view, I think it makes a lot of sense.

[fire&blood]

1 hour ago, LiveFirstDieLater said:

Ser Jorah snorted. "Along with a thousand others at some harvest feast. Next you'll claim you squired for him."

"I make no such claim, ser. Myles Mooton was Prince Rhaegar's squire, and Richard Lonmouth after him. When they won their spurs, he knighted them himself, and they remained his close companions. Young Lord Connington was dear to the prince as well, but his oldest friend was Arthur Dayne." 

"The Sword of the Morning!" said Dany, delighted. "Viserys used to talk about his wondrous white blade. He said Ser Arthur was the only knight in the realm who was our brother's peer."

Richard Lonmouth was Rhaegar's Squire... He was also the knight of skulls and kisses...

"That evening there was to be a feast in Harrenhal, to mark the opening of the tourney, and the she-wolf insisted that the lad attend. He was of high birth, with as much a right to a place on the bench as any other man. She was not easy to refuse, this wolf maid, so he let the young pup find him garb suitable to a king's feast, and went up to the great castle.

"Under Harren's roof he ate and drank with the wolves, and many of their sworn swords besides, barrowdown men and moose and bears and mermen. The dragon prince sang a song so sad it made the wolf maid sniffle, but when her pup brother teased her for crying she poured wine over his head. A black brother spoke, asking the knights to join the Night's Watch. The storm lord drank down the knight of skulls and kisses in a wine-cup war. The crannogman saw a maid with laughing purple eyes dance with a white sword, a red snake, and the lord of griffins, and lastly with the quiet wolf . . . but only after the wild wolf spoke to her on behalf of a brother too shy to leave his bench. 

"Amidst all this merriment, the little crannogman spied the three squires who'd attacked him. One served a pitchfork knight, one a porcupine, while the last attended a knight with two towers on his surcoat, a sigil all crannogmen know well."

The knight of skulls and kisses also swears to unmask the knight of the laughing tree along with Robert. It turns out that in all likelihood Lem Lemoncloack is Richard Lonmouth... 

"Dreams," grumbled Lem Lemoncloak, "what good are dreams? Fish women and drowned crows. I had a dream myself last night. I was kissing this tavern wench I used to know. Are you going to pay me for that, old woman?" 

"The wench is dead," the woman hissed. "Only worms may kiss her now." 

The yellow cloak even fits... Although...

The buxom red-haired innkeep howled with pleasure at the sight of them, then promptly set to tweaking them. "Greenbeard, is it? Or Greybeard? Mother take mercy, when did you get so old? Lem, is that you? Still wearing the same ratty cloak, are you? I know why you never wash it, I do. You're afraid all the piss will wash out and we'll see you're really a knight o' the Kingsguard! And Tom o' Sevens, you randy old goat! You come to see that son o' yours? Well, you're too late, he's off riding with that bloody Huntsman. And don't tell me he's not yours!"

The Irony is he knows who the rightful king is, and seems to be the last surviving member of Rhaegar's inner circle (Connington seems to have loved Rhaegar but it's unclear how far he was trusted, meanwhile Lonmouth seemingly disappears from the records after the tourney at Harrenhall)

Holy shit! This is interesting. Thank you.

[dornishdame]

8 minutes ago, Fencer said:

Personally, I believe Benjen knows.  While Ned never told Catelyn, I don't know that he would deny his brother (and also Lyanna's bother and Jon's uncle, therefore on equal footing with Ned) this knowledge, especially given how close Benjen and Lyanna appear to have been.  Maybe that influenced Benjen's decision to take the black, and I think certainly played a part in Jon's eventual recruitment to the Night's Watch.

From a literary perspective, this also makes much more sense for Benjen's character; instead of being a throw-away that has gone largely unremarked since the first book, his return, if it were to happen, could provide this information to Jon in a much more impactful and unquestionable manner than other alternatives.

Textual evidence?  No much.  But from a character and story point of view, I think it makes a lot of sense.

I also think Benjen knows - but I think that he worked it out for himself rather than being told by Ned. Remember - 

Some secrets are safer kept hidden. Some secrets are too dangerous to share, even with those you love and trust.  (Eddard VIII in A Game of Thrones)

When Ned returned home to Winterfell at the end of the war, Catelyn was neither someone Ned loved, nor someone he trusted, but a stranger; Benjen, on the other hand, was both someone he loved and trusted.  Yes, Catelyn came to be those things, but she wasn't to start off with.  And I think Ned thought Jon was safest if nobody at Winterfell knew who he truly was. If only we had seen Ned and Benjen discuss Jon joining the Watch!!!

As for those who did know, aside from Ned and Howland there has to be at least one other:

"I was with her when she died," Ned reminded the king. "She wanted to come home, to rest beside Brandon and Father." He could hear her still at times. Promise me, she had cried, in a room that smelled of blood and roses. Promise me, Ned. The fever had taken her strength and her voice had been faint as a whisper, but when he gave her his word, the fear had gone out of his sister's eyes. Ned remembered the way she had smiled then, how tightly her fingers had clutched his as she gave up her hold on life, the rose petals spilling from her palm, dead and black. After that he remembered nothing. They had found him still holding her body, silent with grief. The little crannogman, Howland Reed, had taken her hand from his. Ned could recall none of it. "I bring her flowers when I can," he said. "Lyanna was … fond of flowers." (Eddard I in A Game of Thrones)

They implies that at least one other person was present besides Ned and Howland.  I would take a guess at Wylla - we can hardly expect that Rhaegar would leave a young woman, pregnant with his child, alone in a tower with three members of the Kingsguard there to deliver the baby.  If a maester wasn't present, then some sort of serving woman acting as a midwife makes sense.  Edric Dayne tells us that Wylla was his wet nurse, so she had at least some personal experience of childbirth - and she seems willing to claim Jon as her son to those at Starfall.  Why would she do that if she had no idea who he was?

There may be someone else at Starfall that knows the truth but there is no textual evidence, I feel, to point to one particular person.  

[LiveFirstDieLater]

10 minutes ago, dornishdame said:

I also think Benjen knows - but I think that he worked it out for himself rather than being told by Ned. Remember - 

Some secrets are safer kept hidden. Some secrets are too dangerous to share, even with those you love and trust.  (Eddard VIII in A Game of Thrones)

When Ned returned home to Winterfell at the end of the war, Catelyn was neither someone Ned loved, nor someone he trusted, but a stranger; Benjen, on the other hand, was both someone he loved and trusted.  Yes, Catelyn came to be those things, but she wasn't to start off with.  And I think Ned thought Jon was safest if nobody at Winterfell knew who he truly was. If only we had seen Ned and Benjen discuss Jon joining the Watch!!!

As for those who did know, aside from Ned and Howland there has to be at least one other:

"I was with her when she died," Ned reminded the king. "She wanted to come home, to rest beside Brandon and Father." He could hear her still at times. Promise me, she had cried, in a room that smelled of blood and roses. Promise me, Ned. The fever had taken her strength and her voice had been faint as a whisper, but when he gave her his word, the fear had gone out of his sister's eyes. Ned remembered the way she had smiled then, how tightly her fingers had clutched his as she gave up her hold on life, the rose petals spilling from her palm, dead and black. After that he remembered nothing. They had found him still holding her body, silent with grief. The little crannogman, Howland Reed, had taken her hand from his. Ned could recall none of it. "I bring her flowers when I can," he said. "Lyanna was … fond of flowers." (Eddard I in A Game of Thrones)

They implies that at least one other person was present besides Ned and Howland.  I would take a guess at Wylla - we can hardly expect that Rhaegar would leave a young woman, pregnant with his child, alone in a tower with three members of the Kingsguard there to deliver the baby.  If a maester wasn't present, then some sort of serving woman acting as a midwife makes sense.  Edric Dayne tells us that Wylla was his wet nurse, so she had at least some personal experience of childbirth - and she seems willing to claim Jon as her son to those at Starfall.  Why would she do that if she had no idea who he was?

There may be someone else at Starfall that knows the truth but there is no textual evidence, I feel, to point to one particular person.  

I agree with you that it means there was someone else there... But the devils advocate in me has to point out that Howland and a baby would be "they"... Aka plural

[Nevets]

Wylla.  I think she was Jon's wet nurse.  I also think Ashara Dayne was heavily involved and is still alive.  In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if she somehow got word to Ned about Lyanna's location.  Other members of the Dayne could possibly be aware, as well.  

Depending on how much he knew about his sister's activities, Benjen may know or strongly suspect.  (I think he's alive, too)   I can't think of anyone dead except the obvious ones (KG and Rhaegar).

[Ashes Of Westeros]

My bet is on Benjen. Apparently he was closer to Lyanna's age than other brothers, they played together as we see in Bran's visions. I guess Lyanna went with Rhaegar on her own will they were supposed to be in contact somehow to plan the elope. Likely Benjen didn't know about the plan otherwise he would probably try to stop her, but he could have some suspictions or notice something. And after all the events he blamed himself and joined the NW and not to stay in Winterfell where everything reminded him about Lyanna.

[Free folk Daemon]

4 hours ago, aryagonnakill#2 said:

Some theorize that he is Richard Lonmouth, Rhaegars squire.

Whoa, not heard of that before, that would be a pretty great reveal if Lem Lemoncloak is Richard Lonmouth and knows Jon's parentage!

3 hours ago, LiveFirstDieLater said:

Ser Jorah snorted. "Along with a thousand others at some harvest feast. Next you'll claim you squired for him."

"I make no such claim, ser. Myles Mooton was Prince Rhaegar's squire, and Richard Lonmouth after him. When they won their spurs, he knighted them himself, and they remained his close companions. Young Lord Connington was dear to the prince as well, but his oldest friend was Arthur Dayne." 

"The Sword of the Morning!" said Dany, delighted. "Viserys used to talk about his wondrous white blade. He said Ser Arthur was the only knight in the realm who was our brother's peer."

Richard Lonmouth was Rhaegar's Squire... He was also the knight of skulls and kisses...

"That evening there was to be a feast in Harrenhal, to mark the opening of the tourney, and the she-wolf insisted that the lad attend. He was of high birth, with as much a right to a place on the bench as any other man. She was not easy to refuse, this wolf maid, so he let the young pup find him garb suitable to a king's feast, and went up to the great castle.

"Under Harren's roof he ate and drank with the wolves, and many of their sworn swords besides, barrowdown men and moose and bears and mermen. The dragon prince sang a song so sad it made the wolf maid sniffle, but when her pup brother teased her for crying she poured wine over his head. A black brother spoke, asking the knights to join the Night's Watch. The storm lord drank down the knight of skulls and kisses in a wine-cup war. The crannogman saw a maid with laughing purple eyes dance with a white sword, a red snake, and the lord of griffins, and lastly with the quiet wolf . . . but only after the wild wolf spoke to her on behalf of a brother too shy to leave his bench. 

"Amidst all this merriment, the little crannogman spied the three squires who'd attacked him. One served a pitchfork knight, one a porcupine, while the last attended a knight with two towers on his surcoat, a sigil all crannogmen know well."

The knight of skulls and kisses also swears to unmask the knight of the laughing tree along with Robert. It turns out that in all likelihood Lem Lemoncloack is Richard Lonmouth... 

"Dreams," grumbled Lem Lemoncloak, "what good are dreams? Fish women and drowned crows. I had a dream myself last night. I was kissing this tavern wench I used to know. Are you going to pay me for that, old woman?" 

"The wench is dead," the woman hissed. "Only worms may kiss her now." 

The yellow cloak even fits... Although...

The buxom red-haired innkeep howled with pleasure at the sight of them, then promptly set to tweaking them. "Greenbeard, is it? Or Greybeard? Mother take mercy, when did you get so old? Lem, is that you? Still wearing the same ratty cloak, are you? I know why you never wash it, I do. You're afraid all the piss will wash out and we'll see you're really a knight o' the Kingsguard! And Tom o' Sevens, you randy old goat! You come to see that son o' yours? Well, you're too late, he's off riding with that bloody Huntsman. And don't tell me he's not yours!"

The Irony is he knows who the rightful king is, and seems to be the last surviving member of Rhaegar's inner circle (Connington seems to have loved Rhaegar but it's unclear how far he was trusted, meanwhile Lonmouth seemingly disappears from the records after the tourney at Harrenhall)

This is interesting! Would be cool if Lyanna was the Knight of the Laughing Tree and the Knight of Skulls and Kisses swore to unmask her at the Harrenhal tourney

[Aetta]

Bloodraven.

ETA: I don't mean in the sense that Bloodraven saw it after-the-fact, like Bran, or saw it but didn't really know the people, like the Undying, or the other greenseers.  I mean Bloodraven sought it out, saw it and knew exactly what he was watching, real time.

[devilish]

13 hours ago, Raisin(g) Bran 2 Greenseer said:

I was about to point out that it was Dany's own vision and not necessarily seen by all in the room. but then they were the ones providing the prophesy and the vision.

I think the OP was referring to those that are still alive, or at least able to communicate to the living.

 Living or dead. Please provide your basis for the characters.

[Adam Yozza]

The obvious ones of course: Ned, Howland, Rhaegar and Lyanna, Gerold, Oswell and Arthur.

Benjen might suspect but I don't think he knows for sure. He might be able to figure out the events leading up to the rebellion based on little clues in Lyanna's behavior that he didn't notice at the time and felt guilty and so joined the watch. In this case he could probably put two and two together and make an educated guess at Jon's parents. But I don't think Ned would have told him.

Ashara Dayne, who I believe was the one who got word to Ned about Lyanna's location, maybe even via Ethan Glover.

Wylla the wetnurse. Ned Dayne says that he and Jon are 'milk brothers'. So she was probably brought to assist in birthing Jon. She, along with Howland, is probably also the 'They' that Ned remembers as finding him holding his sister's body.

Bloodraven because he seems to know everything (note, I think he knows everything not that he causes everything)

 

[Ferocious Veldt Roarer]

14 hours ago, Isobel Harper said:

Perhaps, then again why not say "son and heir" or something else similar, which would have had just as much weight behind it?

The same reason he adds all that "King of the Andals and the Roynar and the First Men" fluff.

I seriously doubt JonCon was trying to subtly hint to his audience that there was an unrevealed competitor to Aegon's claim out there.

[bent branch]

Who else knows about Jon Snow besides Ned and Howland? My list would be: Ashara Dayne/Septa Lemore, Jon Connington, Varys, Illyrio, and Wylla.

What I believe happened is that when Aerys demanded Elia and the children come to KL as hostages, Elia gave Aegon to Ashara. Ashara took Aegon to Starfall. When Rhaegar left Lyanna at the ToJ he told Dayne, Hightower and Whent to take Lyanna, her baby and Aegon into exile. Lyanna begged Ned to take Jon back to Winterfell with him. When Ned tried to leave with Jon, the well-known fight occurred. When Ned returned the sword to Ashara, she realized that no one else was coming so she took Aegon into hiding herself, with the help of Varys and Illyrio. When it came time to bring in JonCon, Ashara convinced JonCon of Aegon's legitimacy. She also told him about Jon, since there was no way for Ashara not to know about Jon.

The line from JonCon about firstborn son can only be interpreted three ways:

1)  Complete mistake by GRRM. I doubt this, but is possible.

2)  Just a turn of phrase. The people who argue this point out that in the White Book Barristan is referred to as his father's firstborn son. There is a big difference between Barristan and Aegon's situation in my opinion. The difference is that at the time the entry was made in the White Book, Barristan's father was still alive and could have theoretically  had another son. So Barristan was just referred to as his father's firstborn because it wasn't yet set in stone that Barristan's father wouldn't have another. Aegon's father on the other hand was already dead. This is a big difference in my opinion.

3)  The phrase is deliberate on the part of GRRM and serves as foreshadowing that JonCon, et al already know about Jon and chose to leave him protected by his relative anonymity as Ned's bastard. This would also serve as a clue that Aegon is indeed Rhaegar and Elia's son. It would show that the people surrounding Aegon know about Jon and don't think of him as a threat to Aegon. This option is the most likely in my opinion.

[Shouldve Taken The Black]

16 hours ago, LiveFirstDieLater said:

The Irony is he knows who the rightful king is, and seems to be the last surviving member of Rhaegar's inner circle (Connington seems to have loved Rhaegar but it's unclear how far he was trusted, meanwhile Lonmouth seemingly disappears from the records after the tourney at Harrenhall)

I’ve seen this theory before and I don’t really buy it.

I can think of no reason why Rhaegar’s former squire would be hiding out as an outlaw, or how his doing so would achieve anything.

If you think about it, he ends up in direct contact with a relative of Ned Stark and a relative of Arthur Dayne, yet gives no indication of having any insight into their family histories.

Also, wouldn’t Thoros recognise him? They were both members of Aerys’s court.

16 hours ago, LiveFirstDieLater said:

Lem, is that you? Still wearing the same ratty cloak, are you? I know why you never wash it, I do. You're afraid all the piss will wash out and we'll see you're really a knight o' the Kingsguard!

Lonmouth wasn't a Kingsguard.

 

[Endymion I Targaryen]

GRRM has stated that only Ned and Howland left the Tower of Joy alive. Possibly Jon was sent to Starfall earlier by Arthur.

So Edric's parents possibly knew about Jon. Wylla was a servant of house Dayne. Possibly Allyria (a little girl when Jon was born) knows too.Some of them gave Edric the information he shared with Arya. 

 

[LiveFirstDieLater]

36 minutes ago, Shouldve Taken The Black said:

 

 

 

 

I’ve seen this theory before and I don’t really buy it.

 

I can think of no reason why Rhaegar’s former squire would be hiding out as an outlaw, or how his doing so would achieve anything.

 

If you think about it, he ends up in direct contact with a relative of Ned Stark and a relative of Arthur Dayne, yet gives no indication of having any insight into their family histories.

 

Also, wouldn’t Thoros recognise him? They were both members of Aerys’s court.

 

Lonmouth wasn't a Kingsguard.

 

I certainly don't have any hard proof for you, what fun would that be...

and it's just a hunch, but Lem's bitterness could easily be for a family lost in war, and maybe torn loyalties? Lonmouth served as Rhaegar's squire, but he was from the storm lands and Robert would have been his lord... What side did he choose? (I'm suggesting Rhaegar)

As to why, it would provide a counterpart to Howland Reed (a survivor with a story to tell) from the other side of the war.

Not sure why Lem would bother to tell Arya and/or Ned Dayne...

Or why you would think Thoros would recognize him... Or why we would know if he did?

Ok finally, I never said Lonmouth was a kingsgaurd! I'm not suggesting Lem's cloak is actually white either! Haha, but give him time, the story isn't over yet!

(and the "piss washing out" and revealing a kingsgaurd still works as a pretty great illusion if he ends up with a secret past and knowledge of a hidden King)

But as I said at the start it's just a theory

[spauldo17]

16 hours ago, LiveFirstDieLater said:

I agree with you that it means there was someone else there... But the devils advocate in me has to point out that Howland and a baby would be "they"... Aka plural

I disagree with you.  The passage says "they found him still clutching her body"  2 things to note:  1, the baby was presumably with lyanna, and wouldn't storm into the room and "find" ned doing anything.

2, A baby at that age wouldn't be capable enough to include in that sentence.  A baby can't find someone doing anything, or walk in on someone.  While grammatically "they" could mean howland and a baby, contextually it is not possible.

[LiveFirstDieLater]

8 minutes ago, spauldo17 said:

I disagree with you.  The passage says "they found him still clutching her body"  2 things to note:  1, the baby was presumably with lyanna, and wouldn't storm into the room and "find" ned doing anything.

2, A baby at that age wouldn't be capable enough to include in that sentence.  A baby can't find someone doing anything, or walk in on someone.  While grammatically "they" could mean howland and a baby, contextually it is not possible.

Hey I started by saying I think Howland wasn't the only one there (alive) besides Ned and a baby... 

But, if Howland walks in holding a baby to find Ned holding a dead Lyanna, it is both grammatically and contextually accurate to say they... since Howland and a baby is plural no matter how you cut it, the age of the child is irrelevant and there is no reason to think Howland might not have been holding the baby while Ned talked to Lyanna

again I'm just playing devil's advocate

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Wylla, maybe even a maester since they found Ned holding Lyanna's body, BloodRaven, Benjen and Arthur.

[spauldo17]

14 minutes ago, LiveFirstDieLater said:

Hey I started by saying I think Howland wasn't the only one there (alive) besides Ned and a baby... 

But, if Howland walks in holding a baby to find Ned holding a dead Lyanna, it is both grammatically and contextually accurate to say they... since Howland and a baby is plural no matter how you cut it, the age of the child is irrelevant and there is no reason to think Howland might not have been holding the baby while Ned talked to Lyanna

again I'm just playing devil's advocate

Contextually it does not make sense.  To say, ''they found him"  implies grammatically and contextually that both participating parties (read: howland and baby) have the capability to "find" ned in this situation. 

[Jon's Queen Consort]

2 minutes ago, spauldo17 said:

howland and baby

What? You believe that Jon found Ned holding Lyanna's body?