Will the Dragons be relevant?

[Aenarion]

There is going to be a Dance 2.0, per GRRM, from what I've understood. 

But it seems odd to me that the dragons would go over to Aegon. It seems even weirder that the dragons would be allowed to progress in the story given that the Others are going to be important. 

 

So do you think that the dragons are going to make it to the War for the Dawn? If so, do you think the Others will have some way to match them (e.g. an undead Cannibal)?

[Magnar of Skagos]

They would likely be relevant, otherwise there would be no sense including them in the story at all.

[Aenarion]

The thing is, they are medieval nukes. There is absolutely nothing that can match them. . . especially if the Others have no siege weapons to get lucky with and bring them down. Is there any reason to believe that anything other than "Dragons Show Up At Massive Ice Monster Invasion. What Happens Next Will Leave You SPEECHLESS!" clickbait style writing will ensue if "Uncounterable Medieval Nukes that are the specific weakness of these great invaders" show up?

I can honestly say that unlike many other things, I can see no way for Martin to make the War of the Dawn 2.0 tense except either taking the dragons out of the picture earlier or having Ice Dragons to counter them. 

[Little Scribe of Naath]

Well, with the Dance of Dragons coming up, if it has to be a fair Dance, both sides will have to have dragons. Otherwise no point in calling it a dance as Aegon would just be curbstomped by Dany.

So if we consider that two of the three dragons might end up fighting each other in the Dance, one or both may very well die. It's not all that certain that all three dragons will even make it to the battle with the Others.

[RoamingRonin]

The Dance 2.0 doesn't have to be strictly between Dany and Aegon. Aegon doesn't necessarily have to have dragons considering he's supposed to be one (Targaryen, Blackfyre or simply a pretender with no real royal blood). During the original civil war, there were traitors on Rhaenyra's side that had dragons that also contributed to the conflict. Let's not forget her brother Aegon was not in the fight for the duration. He was wounded and hid on dragonstone while his forces and other rebels continued to fight. All Aegon and his council has to do is secure the Iron Throne before Dany while other forces that aren't loyal to Aegon take the field to impede her advances.

I think another faction - probably Euron or another pretender - will claim a dragon and provide a challenge that Dany has to fight. She might have a considerable army to deal with (and dragons) but if she's up against Aegon's forces (elephants, Golden Company, some Westerosi) and another group of rebels (who may or may not have a dragon), that will be a difficult fight indeed. Let's not forget winter has fallen and Westeros won't be easy to settle in, especially for newcomers.

TL;DR: I predict it will be Dany versus Aegon versus a few wildcards (heh heh) who oppose both claimants. The dragons will be relevant as they appeared in one Melisandre's visions.

[NorthernXY]

GRRM didn't originally plan dragons when plotting out the books.  It was a friend who convinced him. Think his original plan was just to have Dany find dragon eggs.

In terms of story telling, he needs to get rid of them to create drama.  Lots of people think Aegon I was a tactical genius with his dragons hence why he was able to conquer 6 kingdoms.  Dany showing up, winning easily, then saving the day from the Others makes for a boring story, negating everything the Night's Watch has done because someone shows up at the last minute to save them on a near whim.  Dany won't have been there the whole time trying to hatch dragons to protect the realm from Others, it'd just be another notch in her belt.

[Macgregor of the North]

There will still be a Dragon/Dragons around when it's time to fight the Others. Their main weapon against the Dragons will be the very harsh winter weather. 

History has shown Dragons are less effective in terrible weather conditions. In this fashion, it wont just be as simple as Dany saying 'Dracarys' and melting Others in great numbers.

[Lord Vance II]

I've always held out that IF Sheepstealer was still alive in the Mountains of the Moon, Aegon IV would take the chance and find it. Not that I think Sheepstealer is actually alive, but it'd be kind of sweet if it was. But it would also be kind of feel like Deus Ex Machina if suddenly there was a dragon there the whole time. It also relies on Aegon being the real deal, which I believe, don't ask me why. 

Pretty much the same thing for Ice Dragons. I think there 100% real, but it would feel random if the Others swooped in on monstrously giant ice dragons. 

If Aegon is the real deal, I could see him maybe hijacking a dragon just to make it more of a fight. But unlikely. I think Aegon will have most of Westeros supporting him by the time Dany and her dragons arrive to even the field a bit. 

And dragons aren't nukes. They're mortal and there are many times dragons have been killed by benign means (arrows in the gut, Scorpion bolt in the eye, storming of the Dragonpit, etc.) They're the most powerful weapon in the world, but not immortal. 

[spauldo17]

I think absolutely the dragons will be relevant, otherwise they wouldn't be in the story.  Thing is I don't see any new dragons being introduced to the story because it would feel forced and not an organic story. 

If there is an actual dance (read: dragon vs. dragon) I think it will come from Euron Greyjoy.  He has the dragon horn, he can bind dragons to his will.  I think Dany will turn him down for a marriage offer and he will steal a dragon or two.  Perhaps the two smaller ones leaving Dany with the one dragon she loves most. 

After this I think Euron teams up with Aegon.  Euron rides one dragon and Aegon rides the other creating a formidable duo. 

 

But at this point it would feel rushed and forced to introduce new dragons.  I think the dance will take place between mortals, and the victor will have the honor of dealing with the white walkers

[Mat92]

12 minutes ago, spauldo17 said:

I think absolutely the dragons will be relevant, otherwise they wouldn't be in the story.  Thing is I don't see any new dragons being introduced to the story because it would feel forced and not an organic story. 

This is why I'm inclined to believe there are ice dragons somewhere. They got name dropped in the first book if I'm not mistaken? Plus the Ice Dragon book George wrote, while not being cannon, fits in pretty well with what we know of the world back then. 

Even if you haven't read that, the books themselves have name-dropped/foreshadowed ice dragons multiple times. This has not been the case (to that extent) with any other possible dragons such as Sheepstealer - introducing another normal dragon (especially in the north) would definitely feel shoehorned in.

Ice dragons being revealed right before/as the dragons attack would be really cool - I can imagine it similar to how in LotR the Nazgul and the eagles fought at the final battle in Mordor. 

[Lord Vance II]

19 minutes ago, Mat92 said:

They got name dropped in the first book if I'm not mistaken?

Kind of. The Ice Dragon is mentioned by Bran and Jon...but it's the name of a star/constellation. Bran follows it north. But in the WoIaF, they're mentioned as pretty factual creatures that live beyond the Shivering Sea. They're many times larger than regular dragons, have translucent wings and breathe icy wind, so basically cool as hell. 

So they have been somewhat named dropped the series...but no one has said "there are living ice dragons."

[Mat92]

Just now, Lord Vance II said:

So they have been somewhat named dropped the series...but no one has said "there are living ice dragons."

Yep, that's what I meant, sorry should have been more specific. Same thing goes for ice spiders - cannot wait for those bad boys to show up!!

[Lord Vance II]

Just now, Mat92 said:

Same thing goes for ice spiders

Old Nan talked about ice spiders. No one has said anything about ice dragons outside of referring to the star/constellation. 

For some reason TWoIaF seemed pretty specific that ice dragons lived north of Ibb, and never mention them in the Land of Always Winter, where presumably they would be. 

[Red Man Racey]

I really don't have any clue what will happen in the south, but at the Wall I think we'll see at least two dragons make it north to join battle against the Others. During the conflict one will fall (swarmed by ice spiders while it's on the ground maybe?) and be raised by the Others (we've seen plenty of other animals raised as wights). This would keep the dragons relevant without making them an "I win" button for Dany and the forces of the living. It also evens the odds without requiring the introduction of ice dragons, which would potentially feel a little cheap and something of an "ass pull".

[Maester of Valyria]

I've often felt that Ice Dragons, while awesome for some, wouldn't fit for the vast majority of readers. Remember that we (as in us forum users) are much much better versed in the lore and backstory of the series, while most casual readers probably won't even remember that ice dragons have been mentioned before.

Very ex machina, very un-GRRM.

[Ser Scott Malkinson]

People seem to think the dragons will wreck the Others, but I'm not so sure. We have never seen fire hurt an Other. Granted, dragonfire might be special, but for now we simply do not know if it can kill the Others. It is even possible the dragons aren't able to use their fire due to the extreme cold the Others seem to bring with them wherever they go.

 

[Lurid Jester]

Calling the dragons medieval nukes seems an exaggeration of their capabilities.  Medieval apache helicopters maybe.  The power levels and benefits seems about right, though having the equivalent of 3 attack copters during midieval times does seem like overkill even if not quite a nuke. 

The point of that distinction is that we do not know the full capabilities of the Others.  They are essentially still amassing their forces and haven't moved on the wall yet.  Until they're ready to take the wall why would they bother bringing out their own big guns?

If it turns out that the Others do end up being the "bad" guys and the "good" guys already have three dragons... there's no way that some comparably powerful ice themed beast will rise from the frost.  

So I definitely believe they will be relevant but I don't think they're going to be the "I win" button people think they are. 

[cgrav]

They are "nukes" in the tactical sense that no known weapon is more destructive and nobody has an adequate defense. 

I agree that something has to limit their effectiveness when it's time to fight the Others.

Maybe Dragons are warded by the Wall and can't pass while it stands. Maybe the Others have some means of controlling them like they control the wights. The Others are uniquely vulnerable to "frozen fire", so maybe dragons have an opposite thing with... melted ice? (Uh oh, that's getting my crackpot simmering)

[GravyFace]

On September 26, 2016 at 9:25 PM, NorthernXY said:

GRRM didn't originally plan dragons when plotting out the books.  It was a friend who convinced him. Think his original plan was just to have Dany find dragon eggs.

In terms of story telling, he needs to get rid of them to create drama.  Lots of people think Aegon I was a tactical genius with his dragons hence why he was able to conquer 6 kingdoms.  Dany showing up, winning easily, then saving the day from the Others makes for a boring story, negating everything the Night's Watch has done because someone shows up at the last minute to save them on a near whim.  Dany won't have been there the whole time trying to hatch dragons to protect the realm from Others, it'd just be another notch in her belt.

GRRM's original plan didn't include dragons, but he was going to give Targaryens actual pyrokinetic abilities. So they didn't need dragons, they were going to be able to manipulate fire themselves. So instead of giving them that power, he gave them dragons instead. So it's very safe to say that dragons will be very relevant in the end, they are the stand-in for Targaryen superpowers basically.

[spauldo17]

15 hours ago, Ser Scott Malkinson said:

People seem to think the dragons will wreck the Others, but I'm not so sure. We have never seen fire hurt an Other. Granted, dragonfire might be special, but for now we simply do not know if it can kill the Others. It is even possible the dragons aren't able to use their fire due to the extreme cold the Others seem to bring with them wherever they go.

 

I think it's pretty safe to assume that the dragons will indeed wreck the Others.  Think about it, the only two things that can harm them are obsidian (called dragon glass, possibly forged by dragon fire)  and Valyrian steel (which is steel forged with dragon's fire)  It wouldn't make much sense for two items created from dragon's fire to harm them, but dragon's fire itself wouldn't.

Basic logic tells us the dragons will be a formidable weapon against the White Walkers.