Aenarion

Do you think any Freys will survive?

67 posts in this topic

On 9/27/2016 at 9:35 AM, Lord Vance II said:

I mean, if shes the embodiment of a mother's grief and wants justice for her slain children, I just don't see her offing the kids. I could see a pretty young cut-off though. 

She killed Jingle Bell before she became a bloodlusting undead jerk who hangs little Pod.   I never thought of her as the embodiment of a mother's grief so much as a vengeful spirit.   

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I’m fairly confident that the Freys will at least survive through House Rosby (with Perwyn or Olyvar as the Lord of Rosby), through House Darry (with Amerei as the Lady of Darry), and through Roslin and the Tully line. I’m not certain that they’ll lose the Twins, but if they do, I see them ruling two other castles, so all in all the Freys will have done well for themselves.

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On ‎9‎/‎26‎/‎2016 at 11:07 PM, Canon Claude said:

I'd want Perwyn, Olyvar, Roslin, and any Freys who didn't participate in the Red Wedding to survive.

Ditto

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What would make the best story for house Frey if it were told as a legend 2,000 years later and not as part of a semi-realistic story that GRRM is telling?  In my opinion it would be that there was a man named Walder Frey who had the largest family/house the world had ever seen and he was tremendously proud of that.  Then he betrayed guest right by murdering people he'd given salt and bread to at a wedding.  The Gods cursed his line and Walder watched as one by one every member of his family died leaving Walder as the last member of his house doomed to know that his house would die with him.

It's such a good story that I think GRRM is working towards a more realistic version of it where most of the men in house Frey die and the survivors change their names out of shame for what Walder did.

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On 8.1.2018. at 3:42 AM, Curled Finger said:

She killed Jingle Bell before she became a bloodlusting undead jerk who hangs little Pod.   I never thought of her as the embodiment of a mother's grief so much as a vengeful spirit.   

Well, Pod is 12 year old squire, and even Daenerys was ok with killing 12 year olds.

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I for some reason thought its likely that if the Freys are defeated, the men will be dead or exiled and the many girls (e.g. Edwyn had a daughter) will be possible heirs and so a female heir is likely to be married off to a male from the winning side thus bringing the house under control of the victors. 

I am not sure how the rules of inheritance work. Stevron and his oldest son Ryman are dead so Edwyn his second son is the current heir and only has a daughter Walda - she is his heir. After her comes Black Walder, and after him Petyr Pimple's daughter Perra. Then there is the another son....

I tried counting but there are an awful lot of descendants. At the top of the list there are a few children of Walder who have predeceased him so there are quite a few youths and children who are in line.

I can't picture every single on being wiped out in a war, but war, the Long Night, possible volcanic eruptions, plague and the Others could do it. Many are presumably living at the Twins but others are scattered around other areas and I think there are a few in Essos. I think they have a much better chance of surviving than some of the other houses with relatively few heirs. 

Edited by Castellan

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1 hour ago, Kandrax said:

Well, Pod is 12 year old squire, and even Daenerys was ok with killing 12 year olds.

Doesn't make it OK with me. 

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1 hour ago, Kandrax said:

I don't say that it is OK.

I understand, Kandrax.  It's often hard to separate a favored character from their actions.  Dany makes many mistakes and manages to hang on to her favor with the readers.   We know Dany and understand she isn't hateful. 

I think my disconnect stems from knowing Pod and understanding that he is a good boy.   I deem him worthy of survival at the risk of considering his death important to some overall larger story.   We know there are some very hateful Freys.   Most of us were aghast at the Red Wedding and understand that Pod had nothing to do with it through his affiliation with the Lannisters.   Pod is guilty by association in story, but not with the readers.  We didn't know Dany's little boys.   We weren't given the opportunity to weigh their characters.  In that we have to accept Dany's actions as necessary.   Pod's hanging may be necessary, too.   I just can't see how yet.  

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On 9/27/2016 at 0:03 AM, The Wolves said:

I don't think any will be returning from the North. Every Frey and their 2,000 men army in the North will die. 

And the ones in the Riverlands will be offed. I think GRRM made guest right so big that offing 3,500 people under it is to do worst and extinct the house that did it. 

I may be wrong but I think the Freys will become extinct. 

George also made oathbreaking serious.  I like the Freys.  I can see why they hated Robb after what he did to them.  I don't want to see any more of the Freys to die.  Jingle bells, the ones killed by awful Manderly, Petyr, and Merrett are enough.  

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13 minutes ago, Moiraine Sedai said:

George also made oathbreaking serious.  I like the Freys.  I can see why they hated Robb after what he did to them.  I don't want to see any more of the Freys to die.  Jingle bells, the ones killed by awful Manderly, Petyr, and Merrett are enough.  

George also made the rapes, child murders, abuse, unfairly treated smallfolk, abuse of power, the misogyny, the pettiness, starvation, greed, countless and unnecessary wars serious yet many characters haven’t paid 1/10th of what Robb did for a oath he did break but tried to correct. 

Oathbreaking is the least serious crime committed in this series. Yes GRRM says it’s serious but he have had characters do it for the right and wrong reasons, he’s also made them question oathbreaking and what reasons would they break it. I just can’t seem to really care about oathbreaking in the books when there are bigger crimes, inhuman crimes(mentioned above)being committed against thousands of innocents. 

I don’t care about the Freys, not a single one so I will say it again, I hope the whole house goes extinct cause I don’t care. 

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1 hour ago, The Wolves said:

George also made the rapes, child murders, abuse, unfairly treated smallfolk, abuse of power, the misogyny, the pettiness, starvation, greed, countless and unnecessary wars serious yet many characters haven’t paid 1/10th of what Robb did for a oath he did break but tried to correct. 

Oathbreaking is the least serious crime committed in this series. Yes GRRM says it’s serious but he have had characters do it for the right and wrong reasons, he’s also made them question oathbreaking and what reasons would they break it. I just can’t seem to really care about oathbreaking in the books when there are bigger crimes, inhuman crimes(mentioned above)being committed against thousands of innocents. 

I don’t care about the Freys, not a single one so I will say it again, I hope the whole house goes extinct cause I don’t care. 

 

I'm not necessarily a big fan of all the Freys.  I do like old Walder and consider myself more of a Stark hater and Jon hater. 

Oathbreaking is as serious as breaking guest rights.

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1 hour ago, Moiraine Sedai said:

 

I'm not necessarily a big fan of all the Freys.  I do like old Walder and consider myself more of a Stark hater and Jon hater. 

Oathbreaking is as serious as breaking guest rights.

It’s really not. 

Everybody oathbreaks in the books and people actually have valid excuses for it. There is no excuse for luring 3,000 men into your home under false pretenses because of your self importance and murdering them. This therefore causes social discord because you broke a sacred rule that helps keep society from total and absolutely chaos. 

I get that you hate the Starks and that’s fine but don’t try to defend what the Freys done, it was gross and not needed. Yes Robb and Cat and 3,000 others died but like I said breaking guest rights like the Freys did is really really dangerous for society as a whole. 

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20 hours ago, Castellan said:

I for some reason thought its likely that if the Freys are defeated, the men will be dead or exiled and the many girls (e.g. Edwyn had a daughter) will be possible heirs and so a female heir is likely to be married off to a male from the winning side thus bringing the house under control of the victors. 

I am not sure how the rules of inheritance work. Stevron and his oldest son Ryman are dead so Edwyn his second son is the current heir and only has a daughter Walda - she is his heir. After her comes Black Walder, and after him Petyr Pimple's daughter Perra. Then there is the another son....

I tried counting but there are an awful lot of descendants. At the top of the list there are a few children of Walder who have predeceased him so there are quite a few youths and children who are in line.

I can't picture every single on being wiped out in a war, but war, the Long Night, possible volcanic eruptions, plague and the Others could do it. Many are presumably living at the Twins but others are scattered around other areas and I think there are a few in Essos. I think they have a much better chance of surviving than some of the other houses with relatively few heirs. 

Are you sure that Walda and Perra are in line of sucession? I have some doubts, because in Acok Big W says that, after Edwyn, Black W is next in line, and in Affc Edwyn tells Jamie that he is only one standing between Black and the Twins.

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4 hours ago, The Wolves said:

George also made the rapes, child murders, abuse, unfairly treated smallfolk, abuse of power, the misogyny, the pettiness, starvation, greed, countless and unnecessary wars serious yet many characters haven’t paid 1/10th of what Robb did for a oath he did break but tried to correct. 

Oathbreaking is the least serious crime committed in this series. Yes GRRM says it’s serious but he have had characters do it for the right and wrong reasons, he’s also made them question oathbreaking and what reasons would they break it. I just can’t seem to really care about oathbreaking in the books when there are bigger crimes, inhuman crimes(mentioned above)being committed against thousands of innocents. 

I don’t care about the Freys, not a single one so I will say it again, I hope the whole house goes extinct cause I don’t care. 

How would you kill two year old Osmund?

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1 hour ago, Kandrax said:

Are you sure that Walda and Perra are in line of sucession? I have some doubts, because in Acok Big W says that, after Edwyn, Black W is next in line, and in Affc Edwyn tells Jamie that he is only one standing between Black and the Twins.

Well in practical terms that would be true, I guess. I mean I don't like the chance of small girl actually becoming Lady of the Twins when she has 20 legitimate uncles. And Black Walder as the next son after Edwyn would probably be appointed as a regent-like figure to run it for her anyway, and might decide to kill her once he has his own heirs. 

But technically, I have the idea from other forum discussions - and they might be wrong - that daughters come before uncles. is as in present day UK, It goes Charles - William - George and then Charlotte. If William had only had a girl, that girl would end up queen, even if Charles and William died now. They would probably appoint Andrew as a Regent. Walder has changed the odds of anything like that happening by having so many children. Its likely to be a power struggle.

 

 

 

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11 hours ago, The Wolves said:

With winter. 

Do you mean real winter or Others or something else? 

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House Frey is perhaps strongly patriarchial, so women aren't allowed to rule Twins before any male member of House.

11 hours ago, Castellan said:

Well in practical terms that would be true, I guess. I mean I don't like the chance of small girl actually becoming Lady of the Twins when she has 20 legitimate uncles. And Black Walder as the next son after Edwyn would probably be appointed as a regent-like figure to run it for her anyway, and might decide to kill her once he has his own heirs. 

But technically, I have the idea from other forum discussions - and they might be wrong - that daughters come before uncles. is as in present day UK, It goes Charles - William - George and then Charlotte. If William had only had a girl, that girl would end up queen, even if Charles and William died now. They would probably appoint Andrew as a Regent. Walder has changed the odds of anything like that happening by having so many children. Its likely to be a power struggle.

 

 

                                                               

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The Freys will be extinguished as a House. That does not mean that every living person of Frey blood will die. I doubt that is possible, given that they must be spread fairly wide and far over Westeros and perhaps the Free Cities.

However, those that survive will become scattered remnants, much like the lords' descendants who now form part of some mercenary companies in Essos, dreaming of the lands and titles lost by their ancestors.

In time, these remnants will merge with the general public and nothing more than a smith, carpenter, sailor or merchant with a random Frey surname will remain a century or so from now, with perhaps a family story of how his ancestors once ruled a castle in the Riverlands in the distant past.

Edited by Free Northman Reborn

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