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U.S. Elections: Apocalypse upon the horizon


lokisnow

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38 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

I don't see how Trump could possibly benefit from bringing up Bill Clinton's affairs in the debate.  Hillary will definitely have a response ready, and it serves as an opening for her to come across as emotional and human to voters, which is one of her biggest weaknesses.  In addition, it opens him up to accusations of being a sexist bully, which is one of his biggest weaknesses. 

Trump has made a lot of crazy political moves and some of them have definitely paid off, but it is hard to see such a gambit working out for him. 

This! And she can also pivot and use it as a justification for why she comes across as secretive. Because Republicans enjoy trying to hurt her on a personal level.

37 minutes ago, Mexal said:

That's fair. The narrative today is anything but the debate. Lots of focus on Bill Clinton's infidelities by his surrogates. Hillary is getting blamed for them now by Marsha Blackburn who also just made it clear that Trump isn't withholding his tax returns because of the audit.

I haven't seen any news coverage today, but if that's true then we can assume that any amount of shame that Republicans still had is gone for good. 

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36 minutes ago, mormont said:

Oh, she was. Unhinged and venal and vain and egotistical, all the things Trump is. But she wasn't a bully. He is.

I give her far less credit. I think Palin was in many ways quite calculating; she's that person from high school whom everyone liked--at first. She was great at making initial impressions, and had a good sense for who could help her and who couldn't, and...but I am drifting away from this thread and I'll stop.

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The Senate just overode Obama's veto of the 9/11 bill. Wonder if the media could be bothered to get the candidates reactions or will MSM be too busy bloviating over Trumps opinion on the former Miss America's weight? I'm guessing they will lead with Miss America's weight.

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52 minutes ago, mormont said:

Oh, she was. Unhinged and venal and vain and egotistical, all the things Trump is. But she wasn't a bully. He is.

By all accounts she actually tried too. She tried to study up. She's just not that bright and wasn't even close to prepared to begin with.

Trump by all accounts can't concentrate on anything for more then a few minutes.

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20 minutes ago, DireWolfSpirit said:

It's like Guilliano has gone batshit crazy at his point. I'm expecting to see him running around a Brooklyn Zoo in a Werewolf suit next.

The one in Park Slope?  Honestly, it's pretty small, and it's Brooklyn, so I'm pretty sure the parents there to see the Sea Lion show wouldn't really notice.  He'd just kind of blend into the hirsute hipster parent vibe.  And having been that parent, running around the zoo is fairly normal to make sure your child doesn't do something dumb and dangerous.

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2 hours ago, mormont said:

100% agreed, Zabz. Trump and his ilk don't have any subtle political reason to bring up Bill's affairs: they just want to humiliate Hillary. Look at Trump's own words: he'll 'hit her harder', he 'held back' because he 'didn't want to hurt anyone's feelings'. This is about hitting and hurting her. Because in Trump's brain, that's how you win. And why would he fear Hillary bringing up his affairs? He wouldn't be hurt by that!

It's about a compulsive need for dominance and a horrifying appetite for cruelty. Whether it's Hillary Clinton, Rosie O'Donnell, John McCain, the Khan family, or even putative allies like Chris Christie, Trump cannot resist these casual attacks. Even if I didn't find his policies (such that they are) horrific, I just don't want my son and our friends' children to grow up in a country with such an example of leadership.

Somewhat relatedly, Trump's son Qusay, I mean Eric, is very proud that his dad "took the high road" and refrained from mentioning Bill Clinton's affairs. What a rotten brood of dead-eyed sociopaths Trump's domestic staff has raised.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/eric-trump-proud-bill-clinton-debate

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2 hours ago, Mexal said:

I read that article earlier. That's his advisors, not him. He doesn't have the attention span necessary to actually do what they want (study, do mock debates, etc). This will be doubly worse if he buys into the actual narrative that he won which I bet he does. I guess we'll see.

In terms of Clinton's infidelities, it's getting a bit ridiculous when you have Giuliani on Fox criticizing Bill Clinton when he married his cousin, had two affairs with government employees and flaunted his mistress. Not to mention Trump's own infidelities. I don't see how this is an argument they can win or why it's important to bring it up given it wasn't Hillary and Trump is just as bad.

I know this is frustrating, but. please, "marrying your cousin" is just not in the same category as "having two affairs with government employees and flaunting your mistress". 

 

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11 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said:

It's about a compulsive need for dominance and a horrifying appetite for cruelty. Whether it's Hillary Clinton, Rosie O'Donnell, John McCain, the Khan family, or even putative allies like Chris Christie, Trump cannot resist these casual attacks. Even if I didn't find his policies (such that they are) horrific, I just don't want my son and our friends' children to grow up in a country with such an example of leadership.

The frustrating part is how traditional Republicans acted so horrified when Trump was attacking their own, but the moment he pivoted to target someone they collectively dislike, they quickly found a way to justify his deplorable behavior. 

 

Mormont's comment makes me wonder, what percentage of the people who said they wanted to see Clinton and Trump debate were saying so because they wanted to be entertained and what percentage wanted to see a shameless man attempt to personally hurt someone they disliked? 

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For those of you thinking that Trump attacking Bill on his infidelity makes no sense, keep in mind that it does make perfect sense and is, in fact, a devastating attack - as far as Trump is concerned.

Because to Trump and Giuliani and many, many others, having an affair is the fault of the wife. Trump is not at fault for cheating on Ivana and Marla. If they were better, more attractive, more satisfying women then he would not feel the need to have an affair. If they had been more loving or kind or better in bed or had better breasts they he wouldn't need to have an affair. But they weren't as good as the next one - weren't as young, as attractive, as good at sex, whatever - so it is their fault and by that token they are bad. 

For him, bringing up Bill Clinton's infidelity isn't to point out how bad infidelity is because obviously he's fine with infidelity. To Trump, infidelity isn't a problem. Obviously - because he has to live with it himself, he's justified it in his mind in many different ways. And the likely way he's justified it is that simply the women before him didn't deserve him and weren't good enough for him. So, naturally, criticizing Hillary for Bill makes sense. 

For a whole lot of cheaters this will resonate. For a whole lot of people cheated on, this is alien butthole void crab logic.

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1 hour ago, Kalbear said:

For those of you thinking that Trump attacking Bill on his infidelity makes no sense, keep in mind that it does make perfect sense and is, in fact, a devastating attack - as far as Trump is concerned.

Because to Trump and Giuliani and many, many others, having an affair is the fault of the wife. Trump is not at fault for cheating on Ivana and Marla. If they were better, more attractive, more satisfying women then he would not feel the need to have an affair. If they had been more loving or kind or better in bed or had better breasts they he wouldn't need to have an affair. But they weren't as good as the next one - weren't as young, as attractive, as good at sex, whatever - so it is their fault and by that token they are bad. 

For him, bringing up Bill Clinton's infidelity isn't to point out how bad infidelity is because obviously he's fine with infidelity. To Trump, infidelity isn't a problem. Obviously - because he has to live with it himself, he's justified it in his mind in many different ways. And the likely way he's justified it is that simply the women before him didn't deserve him and weren't good enough for him. So, naturally, criticizing Hillary for Bill makes sense. 

For a whole lot of cheaters this will resonate. For a whole lot of people cheated on, this is alien butthole void crab logic.

 This is a good point and makes a lot of sense. I'm sure Trump does feel this way, and many cheaters do engage in bullshit justifications for their behaviors. The thing is I don't really hear any of them verbalizing or publicizing these sorts of justifications. Maybe among themselves in a sort of group therapy sense. I have to imagine most folks would laugh at that particular attempt at rationalization.

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Well, first one was his connections to foreign governments and how he cannot be unlinked with government policies. I'd imagine that the next one would be another connection to foreign groups, possibly to do with his loans or his commitments. 

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