The Crown [Netflix]

[The Monkey]

No comments for the second season?

I thought it was a wonderful story, true escapism. They showed the historical events in a really interesting manner, and the acting and cinematography was top-notch. It might not be the most groundbeaking show ever made in terms of challenging the status-quo or subverting the tropes of the genre, but that doesn't take away from the enjoyment. 

[Eggegg]

2 minutes ago, The Monkey said:

No comments for the second season?

I thought it was a wonderful story, true escapism. They showed the historical events in a really interesting mannen, and the acting and cinematography was top-notch. It might not be the most groundbeaking show ever made in terms of challenging the status-quo or subverting the tropes of the genre, but that doesn't take away from the enjoyment. 

Oh yes, I'm 3 episodes into the second season, and its still a really wonderfully made tv show. I almost welled up a number of times during it. Its actually a fantastic insight into the institution of marriage, even if it just about the marriage in very extraordinary circumstances. 

I'm very interested in what the legal situation is here, I don't know what the actual events were regarding Prince Phillip but you can imagine that even though they have navigated it quite cleverly, they are making a number of suggestions that I doubt the Queen would like.

[Dr. Pepper]

They were so careful to never say whether or not Philip cheated, just pointed looks and suggestions.  Even Philip never said yes or no.  

The acting in this show is just so so so so good.  I don't care for the writing. It meanders in some bizarre ways.  But definitely great escapism.  I'm endlessly fascinated that any monarchy still exists.  I have no idea why people would continue to be part of the royal family or why citizens would continue to support it.  Shows like this make it all seem even more absurd because you see them as very real people but what sort of real person would choose this sort of life. 

[Zorral]

It's quite tedious.  That episode of photographing the temper tantrum ignoramous princess never ever ended, while we never gave a damn.

The people featured are shallow, not particularly intelligent, lacking in talents, self-centered and infantile, and certainly quite dull.  Unless one is a royalaphile of great degree, they and their existence is useless. everything they have is unearned, or else stolen, and mostly paid for by other people -- are trivial, never getting past tempests in teapots.

Beautifully produced, but production values and even good writing can't get past those basics, which I also give the production credit for making clear to the viewer.

[Eggegg]

1 hour ago, Zorral said:

It's quite tedious.  That episode of photographing the temper tantrum ignoramous princess never ever ended, while we never gave a damn.

The people featured are shallow, not particularly intelligent, lacking in talents, self-centered and infantile, and certainly quite dull.  Unless one is a royalaphile of great degree, they and their existence is useless. everything they have is unearned, or else stolen, and mostly paid for by other people -- are trivial, never getting past tempests in teapots.

Beautifully produced, but production values and even good writing can't get past those basics, which I also give the production credit for making clear to the viewer.

I’d say if you were such a staunch Republican then maybe it’s not the show for you anyway. 

If nothing else the show the show is about Britain and the British. I wasn’t all that aware of Anthony Eden or the Suez crisis but this has sparked my interest. I liked the portrayal of Churchill last season as well, and Harold McMillan this year is also very well played. 

Ive grown out of hating the Royal family, at a time where British PR is at one of its lowest ebbs; the royal family perform a huge role in promoting Britishness to a level above where we deserve to be right now 

[Dr. Pepper]

The royal family promotes Britain and Britishness in the same way the Kardashians promotes America and Americanness.  

[Eggegg]

12 minutes ago, Dr. Pepper said:

The royal family promotes Britain and Britishness in the same way the Kardashians promotes America and Americanness.  

Not really. Nobody visits amaerica to see the Kardashians. 

 

[red snow]

3 minutes ago, Eggegg said:

Not really. Nobody visits amaerica to see the Kardashians. 

 

we hope...

[Dr. Pepper]

2 minutes ago, Eggegg said:

Not really. Nobody visits amaerica to see the Kardashians. 

 

Lol, ok.  Millions watch their shows and buy their products and follow them on social media.  People literally travel to California to go on tours to see where they live.  They go to see them speak.  They come to America to experience the lifestyle they portray on tv.  More, the Kardashians bring America (a fantasy version of America) to the world.  People gobble it up in droves. 

The Kardashians and the royal family are obviously different in a lot of ways.  The point is that the royal family represents Britishness about as much as the Kardashians represent Americanness.  Meaning not at all.  They all represent a fantasy.  A very expensive fantasy.  

This idea that people travel to the UK to see the royal family is way overblown.  They travel to see the castles and the history and the jewels.  All of that exists without these dull, bland, leeching welfare queens.

[Eggegg]

4 minutes ago, Dr. Pepper said:

Lol, ok.  Millions watch their shows and buy their products and follow them on social media.  People literally travel to California to go on tours to see where they live.  They go to see them speak.  They come to America to experience the lifestyle they portray on tv.  More, the Kardashians bring America (a fantasy version of America) to the world.  People gobble it up in droves. 

The Kardashians and the royal family are obviously different in a lot of ways.  The point is that the royal family represents Britishness about as much as the Kardashians represent Americanness.  Meaning not at all.  They all represent a fantasy.  A very expensive fantasy.  

This idea that people travel to the UK to see the royal family is way overblown.  They travel to see the castles and the history and the jewels.  All of that exists without these dull, bland, leeching welfare queens.

Well yes, it is a fantasy, but it’s a useful fantasy for the British and creates a lot of tourism and soft power in a way that other countries would only wish for.

Well I know a lot of people who aren’t British and almost all of them came to london in the hope of somehow seeing the queen. My wife and her family are obsessed by The crown because they are so interested in our royal family

[Dr. Pepper]

And this is why I find shows like this fascinating.  It's a completely useless family that exists for no reason except to make people love them and someone people buy into it.  Just like the Kardashians.  It's impossible for me to understand that someone can watch this show and actually develop a love towards the family or institution depicted.  

[Zorral]

They both are as useless as each other -- the royals and the kardashians.  Famous for being famous, not for doing any thing or contributing anything.  Likely both nations would be better off without them, though I will grant that monarchy is an English tradition.  But you know, of course, the Welsh, many Irish and Scots could really really really do without them, and that feeling goes very far back.  As also stated earlier -- everything they have they stole from others.

The Duke of Windsor -- that's what they are and why royals all have been.  Get rid of one and he spends the rest of his life trying to get back the crown.  He's as tenacious as Elizabeth.  I would never even think of getting reliable history out of television -- nor would any historian or anyone serious about history -- but the Marburg File and what Windsor did, is true and factual, not fictional device.  Just because some people haven't ever heard of the Suez Crisis, etc., don't assume a whole bunch of other people haven't.

[Dr. Pepper]

I actually liked Margaret's story, mostly because it got to the heart of the issue.  These people talk about duty and sacrifice and how hard this life is, but they choose it.  Margaret could have given it all up to live how she wanted with who she wanted, but she likes being a leecher and likes the bowing and the deference and all the only ridiculous rules.  It's the same with all of them.  Philip is the worst because he constantly complains but he deliberately married into it knowing exactly what he'd be getting.  He was older, too, so it's not like he was a new adult with stars in his eyes.  Not that making a choice doesn't mean one won't have cause to complain, it's just that I can't have sympathy for him at all.  For any of them.  

[polishgenius]

To be fair, although she doesn't do anything, the Monarch does actually have a place in the British political structure (and the religious one), and getting rid of them would necessiate some massive rebuilding of the political system. That's one of the chief reasons why they're still around: laziness, basically. It doesn't bother many people enough to change it (though it should, not because of any distaste I have for the royals themselves, but what having a non-interfering second pillar of state does to the balance and centralisation of power in the branches of government).

The other one is that people see the Queen as basically a cool old lady, and movements to abolish the royal family will increase massively as soon as Charles takes the throne.

[Eggegg]

11 hours ago, Dr. Pepper said:

I actually liked Margaret's story, mostly because it got to the heart of the issue.  These people talk about duty and sacrifice and how hard this life is, but they choose it.  Margaret could have given it all up to live how she wanted with who she wanted, but she likes being a leecher and likes the bowing and the deference and all the only ridiculous rules.  It's the same with all of them.  Philip is the worst because he constantly complains but he deliberately married into it knowing exactly what he'd be getting.  He was older, too, so it's not like he was a new adult with stars in his eyes.  Not that making a choice doesn't mean one won't have cause to complain, it's just that I can't have sympathy for him at all.  For any of them.  

Where did it show that in the show? Its almost the complete opposite of what you said.

 

[Dr. Pepper]

3 hours ago, Eggegg said:

Where did it show that in the show? Its almost the complete opposite of what you said.

 

This is practically her entire storyline.  She wanted Peter Townsend but as a princess she's beholden to what the crown says and the crown says no.  That doesn't apply if she gives up the title and the role and all the 'benefits' that go along with it.  In this season, Elizabeth explicitly points this out to her when Margaret threatens to give it up if she doesn't get her way.  

[Calibandar]

20 hours ago, Dr. Pepper said:

They were so careful to never say whether or not Philip cheated, just pointed looks and suggestions.  Even Philip never said yes or no.  

The acting in this show is just so so so so good.  I don't care for the writing. It meanders in some bizarre ways.  But definitely great escapism.  I'm endlessly fascinated that any monarchy still exists.  I have no idea why people would continue to be part of the royal family or why citizens would continue to support it.  Shows like this make it all seem even more absurd because you see them as very real people but what sort of real person would choose this sort of life. 

 

With a bit of empathy you could actually quite easily understand why for instance in our country we still have a royal family, or in several other European countries.

Latest polling shows that a majority of the population is still in favor of it, and there are obvious benefits to it for the royal family so you can easily see why they themselves would not object, even if everything they do is under the media spotlight.

[Eggegg]

1 hour ago, Dr. Pepper said:

This is practically her entire storyline.  She wanted Peter Townsend but as a princess she's beholden to what the crown says and the crown says no.  That doesn't apply if she gives up the title and the role and all the 'benefits' that go along with it.  In this season, Elizabeth explicitly points this out to her when Margaret threatens to give it up if she doesn't get her way.  

Hmm, I don't recall any scene in the show where she threatened to give up her crown, though I might be mistaken. I also don't recall any scene in which she delights in the benefits of being a royal. If anything she seems to prefer being treated like a nobody if S2E4 is anything to go by. 

What I do remember is a number of scenes about loyalty to the family and duty and appearance, which very much the themes of the show. 

17 minutes ago, Calibandar said:

 

With a bit of empathy you could actually quite easily understand why for instance in our country we still have a royal family, or in several other European countries.

Latest polling shows that a majority of the population is still in favor of it, and there are obvious benefits to it for the royal family so you can easily see why they themselves would not object, even if everything they do is under the media spotlight.

From the outside as a Yank, or if you were particularly left wing and militant, I can understand why you wouldn't understand the attraction for having a royal family. I think there was a period about a decade ago where the Royals were pretty unpopular. Princess Di had died and we had Charles and Camilla looking like he might be King. These days however with Princes Harry and William, and Kate as well, I think their popularity has returned and the royal line looks pretty strong.

As a Brit, I've grown into admiring the Royals from being quite anti them when I was younger. Yes there is some element of leeching there (the main issue being just how much land in the UK is owned by the Royal family), but it is more than compensated by giving the country a sense of identity and helping to push Brand Britain across the world. I think the British still have a picture of their own sets of values and culture and the royal family in some way help to solidify that. 
 

[Dr. Pepper]

1 hour ago, Calibandar said:

 

With a bit of empathy you could actually quite easily understand why for instance in our country we still have a royal family, or in several other European countries.

Latest polling shows that a majority of the population is still in favor of it, and there are obvious benefits to it for the royal family so you can easily see why they themselves would not object, even if everything they do is under the media spotlight.

Aw, so the crown will just easily and willingly give it all up if one of their countries desires it?  

Lol

This is all baloney.  The royal family has been as deeply unpopular as they have been popular.  They stick around not because they think it benefits the people or that the people want them, but because they aren't willing to give up their lifestyle.  Their wealth and privileges and everything that matters is tied up in this firm.

38 minutes ago, Eggegg said:

Hmm, I don't recall any scene in the show where she threatened to give up her crown, though I might be mistaken. I also don't recall any scene in which she delights in the benefits of being a royal. If anything she seems to prefer being treated like a nobody if S2E4 is anything to go by. 

What I do remember is a number of scenes about loyalty to the family and duty and appearance, which very much the themes of the show. 

That scene where she discusses being a nobody isn't about her delighting in being a nobody, it's about her delighting in how exciting it was to play a nobody.  Notice how she's telling this story while treating the staff like nobodies.  She doesn't start to see them as people deserving respect.  It was all a thrill for her, she got to mingle with the natives.  

The scene I'm referencing is in episode 7, after Elizabeth gives birth to Andrew and Margaret comes to talk to her about announcing the engagement with Tony.  Liz asks her if she's sure about Tony and Mags threatens to run away to marry at the register's office if she has to, that she's free to break away.  Liz points out that she's not breaking away, she loves all the royal shit too much.  (It's here that Mags says they'll marry at the Abbey, which is implying that she agrees with Liz's assessment).

And this is proven true throughout the series so far.  We see many moments of her exercising agency.  Sending Tony's photo to the paper for publication, for example.  So we know she can communicate on her own with the papers when she hands Elizabeth the statement to announce the engagement, and yet she doesn't do it. She'll push the line a bit, but she never goes over it because too far would jeopardize all of her privileges.

Yes, loyalty to family is a theme throughout, but being disloyalty is too.  Elizabeth chooses the crown over loyalty to family time and again just as Margaret does, only they do it for different reasons.  Elizabeth because she thinks it's what her god wants, Margaret because she likes it all too much.  

[Eggegg]

1 hour ago, Dr. Pepper said:

This is all baloney.  The royal family has been as deeply unpopular as they have been popular.  They stick around not because they think it benefits the people or that the people want them, but because they aren't willing to give up their lifestyle.  Their wealth and privileges and everything that matters is tied up in this firm.

Um, there might be a tiny smidge of truth, in so much that if they gave up the throne and all that comes with it, then it would probably end up being quite disasterous financially for them and their descendents. So understandable they wouldn't do it.  Abdicating the throne has already been proven to be a bad move from those who have done it.

Plus there isn't really any appetite for them to do it. The country by and large loves them, they are very popular worldwide and there isn't really anyone calling for them to go. If they did go they would be viewed as traitors and be publically shamed for doing so. You probably are quite removed from Britain, but  many Brits take a lot of pride in their tradition and sense of place in the world, the Royal family are part of that, and it would be a great loss if we ever went to a more presidential model. God knows we wouldn't want a Trump as head of state!
 

1 hour ago, Dr. Pepper said:

The scene I'm referencing is in episode 7, after Elizabeth gives birth to Andrew and Margaret comes to talk to her about announcing the engagement with Tony.  Liz asks her if she's sure about Tony and Mags threatens to run away to marry at the register's office if she has to, that she's free to break away.  Liz points out that she's not breaking away, she loves all the royal shit too much.  (It's here that Mags says they'll marry at the Abbey, which is implying that she agrees with Liz's assessment).

Ok fair enough, I'm not that far into Season 2 yet to comment. So far that hasn't been the assessment of what is happening with her, or with any of the other characters on the show.