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Changing your family name in Westeros?


Nocturne

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So correct me if i am wrong but we know:

- That a bastard can change his last name to his fathers family name if he is legitimised by the king.

-Peasants don't have a family name?

So a particular case i'm curious about: Let's say that somebody legitimises Gendry as a Baratheon. Can he then change his name to Gendry Durradon ( i love that house name:D ) since Baratheons are descends of that house?

 

 

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6 minutes ago, devilish said:

Durrandons have more legitimacy to the Stormlands then the Baratheons. Why would someone do that?

Well lets say the books have the same end planned for Stannis. Gendry gets legitimised somehow, but he hates his father..can he do this out of spite? Would actually that be legal?

 

 

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Well from what we know, Bastards can either take one of their parents' family names (Addam Velaryon), form a Cadet House of said House (Daemon Blackfyre), or form a completely new House (Benedict Justman). I could see a Bastard taking the name of a extinct House he/she's related to it (even if only loosely) but most will probably not view him/her as the true successor to the ancient House and probably view the old and new Houses as two separate ones. Not to mention that by the time of someone such as Gendry's birth the last member of House Durrandon died a little less than 300 years ago, so it would be stretching even if he was a true-born child who decided to change his House to his own.

 

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11 minutes ago, Summer Islander Prince said:

Well from what we know, Bastards can either take one of their parents' family names (Addam Velaryon), form a Cadet House of said House (Dameon Blackfyre), or form a completely new House (Benedict Justman).

 

And bastards can make different version for their bastard name (Longwaters, Oldflowers), altough that might be in the new house category.

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14 hours ago, Nocturne said:

So correct me if i am wrong but we know:

- That a bastard can change his last name to his fathers family name if he is legitimised by the king.-Peasants don't have a family name?

It is important to remember that there is no centralised government census or bureaucracy like the DMV. You can call yourself whatever the hell you want, but if you claim to be very important, if you can't back it up, you'll at best be laughed at or worse murdered. An example is Lother Brune, he claims descent from the Brunes of Brunhollow. They do not recognise him. However they are not particularly important and he is a decent man at arms, so no one bothers him.

There are however traditions.

Most peasants do not need a family name. They're known by their first name, plus or minus descriptors/trades/locations where necessary. Hypothetical example Big Pate the farmer from Stonehill. 

Some commoners have last names because they're A. Rich Foreigners example Tobho Mott or B. at some point they had knightly or noble descent Marsha Heddle. These are less common.

A bastard name is a tradition. One must remember these only apply to recognised  bastards. A bastard that while not legitimised, the lord has identified them as being their natural child. Example Edric Storm is a recognised bastard. Gendry is not. He is still Robert's bastard but he was never recognised as such and would have a harder time proving his descent. Remember it is still better to be a bastard then a commoner. 

If a bastard is legitimised they may take the family name. Some might not however. Like Brynden Rivers who for political reasons likely wanted to play down the Great Bastards legitimisation aspect.

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So a particular case i'm curious about: Let's say that somebody legitimises Gendry as a Baratheon. Can he then change his name to Gendry Durradon ( i love that house name:D ) since Baratheons are descends of that house?

To answer this in parts. A baratheon could change their name to be Durrandon. As they are descended from the Durrandons. Why they would want to do this is the question? You could argue if the Baratheon line was deposed any surviving Baratheon might want to change it to avoid association with Robert Baratheon (or Stannis or Joffrey). But the decision would likely need to be made by the Head of the House to actually have any impact.

So that's the second part of that question.

As I mentioned above it would be harder to prove Gendry is descended from Robert then someone like Mya Stone or Edric Storm. But if he was recognised and legitimised somehow. Yes he could become head of house Baratheon and change it's name.

But it would take a very particular set of circumstances.

 

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We also have the example of a bastard name being slightly amended:

To be sure, his sweet sister seemed to think half the court was either useless or treasonous; Pycelle, the Kingsguard, the Tyrells, Jaime himself . . . even Ser Ilyn Payne, the silent knight who served as headsman. As King's Justice, the dungeons were his responsibility. Since he lacked a tongue, Payne had largely left the running of those dungeons to his underlings, but Cersei held him to blame for Tyrion's escape all the same. It was my work, not his, Jaime almost told her. Instead he had promised to find what answers he could from the chief undergaoler, a bentback old man named Rennifer Longwaters.

"I see you wonder, what sort of name is that?" the man had cackled when Jaime went to question him. "It is an old name, 'tis true. I am not one to boast, but there is royal blood in my veins. I am descended from a princess. My father told me the tale when I was a tad of a lad." Longwaters had not been a tad of a lad for many a year, to judge from his spotted head and the white hairs growing from his chin. "She was the fairest treasure of the Maidenvault. Lord Oakenfist the great admiral lost his heart to her, though he was married to another. She gave their son the bastard name of 'Waters' in honor of his father, and he grew to be a great knight, as did his own son, who put the 'Long' before the 'Waters' so men might know that he was not basely born himself. So I have a little dragon in me."

"Yes, I almost mistook you for Aegon the Conqueror," Jaime had answered. "Waters" was a common bastard name about Blackwater Bay; old Longwaters was more like to be descended from some minor household knight than from a princess. "As it matters, though, I have more pressing concerns than your lineage." (Jaime I in A Feast for Crows)

So, after a generation or so has passed, we have an example of a bastard name being amended to demonstrate that the descendants of that person are legitimate children and grandchildren of that line. 

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If Gendry ever gets legitimised i would like if he would make his knight nickname also his new house name. House Hollowhill, that would be nice. But i'm preety sure that if gets legitimised by Stannis the choosen name is going to be Baratheon, no doubt of that, or else his legitimacy would be questioned too easily. In fact people was going just to refuse it instantly just because of the confusion, unless someone really convinces them this is the better thing, like if Gendry turns to be asewome and famous for his feats before gets legmised or if someone shows some undoubtful proof he is really Robert's son..

And unfortunately I don't think Gendry will ever be legimised despiste the fact he looks a lot like Robert.

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