Luke Cage: Tired of Buying New Clothes (Spoiler Thread)

[HexMachina]

Finished episode 7

Thought it was a brilliant episode and was taken completely by surprise when Mariah killed Cottonmouth, I expected him the be the villain throughout. Misty Knight has been one of the highlights of this series for me though, I love her. But then all of the acting has been superb.

Despite how much I am enjoying it, I think I would still rank it below Jessica Jones, and maybe put it on par with DD Season 2 (so far anyway). For me it's not quite as good; great as the performance of Cottonmouth was, he doesn't come anywhere near Killgrave. I also think that while Luke Cage does a good job of fleshing out the characters and their relationships with each other, they do not feel as convincing as those in JJ, for example Jessica and Trish, Jessica and Luke, Killgrave and Jessica. The only one that comes close IMO is the relationship between Cottonmouth and Mariah.

That said, Luke Cage probably beats JJ on the action (which admittedly was the weakest part in JJ)

[polishgenius]

The shitty coding on this fucking forum format just spoiled some of the end for me. Is anyone else finding that quite regularly there's a gap of a couple of seconds between the page loading and spoiler boxes closing up?

 

23 minutes ago, PetyrPunkinhead said:

@dog-daysSo, you're understanding the difference in pronunciations then, yeah? When I refer to pronouncing a word ending with a hard "R" it would be "rhoticity," to your ears. Like "purr" in the kitten's purr. Thus when I write "super duper pooper scooper trooper" it'd be pronounced = supeR dupeR poopeR scoopeR troopeR. And your phonetic spelling using "uh" and ours with "a" would be equivalent; thus in pronunciation (US) supa dupa = (UK) supuh dupuh.

Why are y'all insisting on conflating 'not hearing' with 'not understanding'?

 

 

[PetyrPunkinhead]

I just finished ep10 and it's probably my favorite of the series after the origin in ep4.  I'm about to start episode 11 now, and I'm left wondering if the program at Seagate prison will somehow tie in to the program Nuke, Killgrave, and Jessica Jones were all mixed up in.

 

I forget, was the truck full of chemicals that gave Jessica her powers connected to the ame program as Killgrave & Nuke program, too?

I've a feeling Reva's hard drive will come in to play with that possible connection to Nuke's program in the future. Hopefully the connection will surface in the last three episodes. There's no way Dr. Burnstein is finished. Speaking of the doc, kudos to the show's creator for casting another great The Wire supporting actor in this series. I don't remember his name, but I know he was the lawyer for Stringer and his successor(s).

Also, I feel after ep10 Claire Temple is less one note. Netflix, needs to let this woman get her damn M.D. already. That'd be a good arc for her. I forget if it was DDS2 OR JJS1, but it was brought up before that she go to med school and she shot the idea down. Maybe this Dr. Burnstein encounter will prompt her. If she really wants to be a super hero physician, she will need more training.

 

 

 

26 minutes ago, polishgenius said:

Why are y'all insisting on conflating 'not hearing' with 'not understanding'?

Simmah down now. In this context the two are not mutually exclusive. I was just trying to clarify. 

 

 

[RumHam]

7 hours ago, The Wolves said:

And was it vibranium that Diamondback used to shoot Luke? 

No, Chitauri metal from the events of The Avengers. 

5 hours ago, polishgenius said:

Just to go back to something that was brought up earlier:

 

 

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I suspect that the writers meant 'operating budget' when they said 'reserve' in the scene where he's kicking off about it, but either way: for the level Cottonmouth

wants to be operating at, 7mil is not a lot at all. And that plays into his whole character- he wants to be a terrifying villain, but he's vulnerable as shit and he knows it.

 

Actually my complaint about why he needed Mariah's money was eventually addressed towards the end of the show.

Mariah realizes Stokes never needed her money, and just wanted to pull her into his criminal organization. 

[Corvinus85]

As to the N word, even the bad old N word is used a couple of times. So I hope that answers the questions posed upthread, about whether or not the N word is utilized on this show.

Now as to the bigger picture. I finished the show and loved it. Just as good as DD and JJ. I think it kinda depends on what you're looking for in these kind of shows that might make the difference on which of the three you like best. There are plenty of similarities but also differences. I personally would still go with DD, due to its atmosphere, its fight scenes,  and I still think Fisk is the best villain. On the subject of villains

Spoiler

The villains were very good here, but I think not enough time was given in their development, except maybe Mariah. Cottonmouth was great, and maybe they took him out at the right time (the show was starting to drag just before that moment), but because of this perhaps we haven't seen enough of him. Mariah was great, a bit more background may have been needed, but overall I have no complaints. Diamondback was a bit of a disappointment because of two reasons 1) I wish he had started with superpowers (yes, we'll probably see that in season 2); even though that was compensated with high tech, the fight at the end felt anti-climatic; it also felt-anticlimactic because they gave so little time for the character to develop that his background had to be delivered into one speech + a boxing flashback. The character, given his motivations, feels similar to Loki, so if you love Loki, I don't think you should hate Diamondback. But more is needed from him before he can be among the best villains. I also liked Shades - it would be nice if they developed him more next season.

 

[Bastard of Boston]

Just finished, and this is another W for Marvel. I have too much of an affinity for the Daredevil character to rate this above DD, but Luke Cage, I think, eclipsed Daredevil in terms of doing more with the story. This wasn't just about portraying a superhero, it was also about an entire culture. 

Spoiler

The "super suit" in the finale was a swing and miss, but I can look the other way when you give me performances like these.

The Marvel Netflix villains continue to deliver, going as far as overshadowing the protags. Ali and Woodard were unreal and stole almost every scene they were in. Missick was every bit as sexy and strong as Misty Knight should be. Rosario continues to be the dependable rock she has been in all the other series. Colter delivered on the promise in Jessica Jones. I do think he struggles sometimes when his lines require him to use cultural jargon, but it's a nitpick. I don't think he's comfortable in that space. This Netflix line is something special and has the potential to do more than the movies.

[Martini Sigil]

13 hours ago, Relic said:

no....its not.

One ends with a hard R, the other ends with a A. It's certainly not the same word. 

Yeah.... whatever.... I'll tell you what, use the word casually at work and in mixed company --if you're ever actually in mixed company--, and when someone takes exception, you can explain that you're not racist because you're using the version with an "A" at the end.

But beyond the lesson in basic sociology, We finished binging today... It's hard to say which of the four shows I enjoyed the most... but certainly I thought this was at least as good --excellent-- as DD1, 2 and JJ 1... Netflix really knows what the hell they're doing.

[PetyrPunkinhead]

I'm fresh off of finishing the last episode of season one, and I'm not gonna definitively say it's the best season of MCU TV thus far, but it is definitely the least dark and brooding. It's also the only MCU TV series that didn't have a lead character that annoyed the shit outta me. Jessica Jones and Matt could both aggravate the hell outta me and made binging the entire series nearly impossible for me as I'd just need a break from those characters. SHIELD has so many episodes to go through that it's almost unfair to compare it to the Netflix series. Luke Cage, however, had a pretty sprawling cast filled with interesting characters and the pacing was pretty damned solid throughout the 13 episodes. I will say it gave too much credit to some of the B-characters (I can't speak on that much more w/out spoilers.) Both seasons of DD & JJ S1 felt bloated. LC S1 didn't suffer from bloat until the final three episodes, which definitely could've been tightened up.  The show also had a few moments that stretched plausibility too far and came off, to use Claire & Luke's word, corny. All complaints aside, I enjoyed the series a lot more than I expected. It's also got the best soundtrack to an MCU joint since Guardians of the Galaxy. I'm looking forward to seeing Misty, Claire, and hopefully Luke showing up in Iron Fist S1. 

3 hours ago, Bastard of Boston said:

Just finished, and this is another W for Marvel. I have too much of an affinity for the Daredevil character to rate this above DD, but Luke Cage, I think, eclipsed Daredevil in terms of doing more with the story. This wasn't just about portraying a superhero, it was also about an entire culture. 

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The "super suit" in the finale was a swing and miss, but I can look the other way when you give me performances like these.

 

The writers and show runner definitely took the task of bringing the first African-American superhero TV series to heart. They did a great job of showcasing African-Am. history, but I think they extolled Harlem a bit too much. Luke Cage is basically the modern black Cap. America in his world view. I'm sad those two characters will never be on screen together. Well, that is unless Infinity War finally unites the MCU film and TV series together. 

Spoiler

Yeah, that costume was an homage to the character's original look in the comics. But all in all the fight itself was rather anticlimactic.

 

[RedEyedGhost]

Really enjoyed it.  They continue to knock the casting choices out of the park on the Netflix/Marvel shows - except for the ages of Faison and Woodard relative to Ali.  He's so young relative to the other two that that's all I could think about during the flashback scenes. The music and the history were certainly the best things all around, just fantastic.  I kind of wish I hadn't watched it so fast and had taken some notes on thing to look up when more convenient.

 

4 hours ago, Corvinus said:

Now as to the bigger picture. I finished the show and loved it. Just as good as DD and JJ. I think it kinda depends on what you're looking for in these kind of shows that might make the difference on which of the three you like best. There are plenty of similarities but also differences. I personally would still go with DD, due to its atmosphere, its fight scenes,  and I still think Fisk is the best villain. On the subject of villains

I still think DD is my favorite of the series, but Killgrave was easily my favorite villain (even though Fisk was definitely awesome).  

 

11 hours ago, Kindly Old Man said:

I finished it. I really loved this show for the first eight episodes or so. I loved the setting, the music, the casting, and almost all of the acting. I thought the performances were good enough that they even managed to make some of the more cheesy lines of dialogue work (well, not the Catwoman-esque basketball scene - that was awful). I especially liked Mahershala Ali as Cottonmouth; I enjoyed seeing his backstory and the way he managed to maneuver his way past all the various obstacles he encountered.

Spoilers all:

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Then, of course, they killed him. At first I thought this was bold storytelling that could turn out well. The new villain was mysterious and finally had the ability to hurt Cage, and I thought Mariah had potential as a new villain. But, no. Mariah immediately turned out to be a total nonentity. I mean, she needed a fake witness to support their framing story, and who does she choose? The world's most timid waitress, who used to turn to Luke Cage for protection when she had to go upstairs. Mariah's schemes didn't get much better from there. Then there's Diamondback, an absolute idiot with a totally undeserved sense of superiority. The kind of dude who chews out his subordinates for not being able to find Luke Cage when he was the one who shot Cage and then just watched the garbage truck slowly drive off without trying to finish him off or follow it. An idiot with the wherewithal to produce enough Judas bullets to supply the whole police force, but who only carries around a couple of them, even though killing Luke Cage is his entire purpose in life. A villain who fires two guns at Misty Night from a few feet away but only manages to hit her arm. And then all the whining about how Daddy didn't love him and constant Bible quotes. He just sucked. Finally there's Shades, who I was initially sure would have some cool eye related power. Laser blasts or hypnosis or something. But nope, he turns out to have all the powers of Corey Hart. He eventually gets beaten up by a nurse. He at least showed good sense on a few occasions, so I guess he's not a total loss.

I did enjoy a lot of things in the latter half. Colter's performance was still great. Rosario Dawson is always awesome, and I liked the scenes with the doctor. Misty Knight had some good stuff, particularly her therapy scene. But the villains really brought it down for me. Still, I like the world they've built here and I am looking forward to seeing more of it. Although unfortunately it looks like they're bringing back Diamondback. I wish they'd have resurrected Cottonmouth.

 

 

 

I think mostly because of the reasons you listed, I found the pacing of the back half of the season to be off.  Not as unit but within each individual episode.  Like you, I still enjoyed the back half, but in each episode there was at least one instance that brought the episode to a screeching halt.

 

6 hours ago, polishgenius said:

 

The shitty coding on this fucking forum format just spoiled some of the end for me. Is anyone else finding that quite regularly there's a gap of a couple of seconds between the page loading and spoiler boxes closing up?

That's happened to me a few times in threads lately, too.

 

13 hours ago, Zorral said:

comix

I feel like I now completely understand the meaning of "micro-aggression," and I haven't been a reader of comics for a decade and a half.

[polishgenius]

7 hours ago, PetyrPunkinhead said:

Simmah down now. In this context the two are not mutually exclusive. I was just trying to clarify. 

My apologies, I've been feeling a little sick and so cranky, but I had already had that discussion with Relic (and I know you weren't responding to me directly in that instance but it's all one convo...) that we know the difference, we just have to really pay attention to parse the phonetics.
And I thought dog-days response made it fair obvious that he understands too.



Anyway, I'm lagging a little on some of y'all (episode five- I liked all of them apart from four, which is fine for what it is but what it is is

a contrived flashback origin story that totally slammed the brakes on the pace of the plot proper, which is always a bad look

, but I'm going to take advantage of Germany's re-unification holiday and being sick at home to pound a few episodes in today...

[Relic]

11 hours ago, PetyrPunkinhead said:

But contextually, Relic and others really need to know there's no difference between the meaning of the two words whatsoever.

I mean YOU can say that, but it doesn't make it true. There IS a difference, both in spelling and pronunciation. The debate on whether or not the "Ga" word should be used is one for the African American community to conduct. It's not up to you or I. 

[Relic]

5 hours ago, Martini Sigil said:

Yeah.... whatever.... I'll tell you what, use the word casually at work and in mixed company --if you're ever actually in mixed company--, and when someone takes exception, you can explain that you're not racist because you're using the version with an "A" at the end.

It must suck to be hard of hearing AND to fail at reading. As i said above: there are two different words and YOU or I should not use either of them. No one outside of the African American community should. 

[protar]

I enjoyed it very much although I do think that it's the weakest of the netflix shows so far.

Killing off Cottonmouth so early and switching him out with Diamondback took a lot of balls which really grabbed my attention for a few episodes, but ultimately I'm not sure how much it paid off. Diamondback was a less interesting villain than Cottonmouth, just this crazy bible quoting guy. Cottonmouth had what it took to be up there with Fisk and Kilgrave; he was complex, had honour, and the last thing he ever wanted was to kill Pop. There were moments I was even rooting for him. So with Cottonmouth nixed early and Mariah and Diamondback sharing the spotlight for the last half season, the show really lacked an iconic villain and I think the show suffered a lot for it.

The show also felt the least superheroey to me. Which wasn't necessarily bad, but you know DD had the mysticism of the hand, JJ had Kilgrave's mind control powers. Aside from Cage himself everything was pretty normal until Diamondback's suit at the end. 

Speaking of the ending - I know a lot of people didn't like it ending on a bit of a downer. I personally didn't mind it, however it's kind of unfortunate that due to the Defenders coming before LC season 2, his imprisonment will have to be handwaved pretty quickly.

[Corvinus85]

3 hours ago, protar said:

I enjoyed it very much although I do think that it's the weakest of the netflix shows so far.

 

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Killing off Cottonmouth so early and switching him out with Diamondback took a lot of balls which really grabbed my attention for a few episodes, but ultimately I'm not sure how much it paid off. Diamondback was a less interesting villain than Cottonmouth, just this crazy bible quoting guy. Cottonmouth had what it took to be up there with Fisk and Kilgrave; he was complex, had honour, and the last thing he ever wanted was to kill Pop. There were moments I was even rooting for him. So with Cottonmouth nixed early and Mariah and Diamondback sharing the spotlight for the last half season, the show really lacked an iconic villain and I think the show suffered a lot for it.

The show also felt the least superheroey to me. Which wasn't necessarily bad, but you know DD had the mysticism of the hand, JJ had Kilgrave's mind control powers. Aside from Cage himself everything was pretty normal until Diamondback's suit at the end. 

Speaking of the ending - I know a lot of people didn't like it ending on a bit of a downer. I personally didn't mind it, however it's kind of unfortunate that due to the Defenders coming before LC season 2, his imprisonment will have to be handwaved pretty quickly.

 

Spoiler

Considering that Claire kept making off hand references to Matt Murdock, it could actually be a good way to start the Defenders by having Matt using the file Bobby Fish found and getting Luke out of prison.

 

[dog-days]

14 hours ago, PetyrPunkinhead said:

@dog-daysSo, you're understanding the difference in pronunciations then, yeah? When I refer to pronouncing a word ending with a hard "R" it would be "rhoticity," to your ears. Like "purr" in the kitten's purr. Thus when I write "super duper pooper scooper trooper" it'd be pronounced = supeR dupeR poopeR scoopeR troopeR. And your phonetic spelling using "uh" and ours with "a" would be equivalent; thus in pronunciation (US) supa dupa = (UK) supuh dupuh.

My point is that, as polishgenius more or less pointed out, "n-----r" and "nigga" sound identical in received pronunciation. They are homophones. 

In standard American English and probably in some of its dialects, I know intellectually that they sound different. However, being brought up in the UK, it can be hard for my ears to pick up on the finer details. A lot of Americans probably experience something similar when listening to UK accents. I'm not really sure why I'm typing this. I just get excited about things to do with the history of language and jump in. 

Anyway, I'm looking forward to catching up on the show. I'm glad it's getting a warm reception. JJ was great. 

[protar]

2 hours ago, Corvinus said:

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Considering that Claire kept making off hand references to Matt Murdock, it could actually be a good way to start the Defenders by having Matt using the file Bobby Fish found and getting Luke out of prison.

 

I expect that the Defenders will begin with DD getting his ass kicked by the Hand and then Claire acting as The Defender's Coulson, bringing everyone together. Including getting Luke out of jail. I guess recruiting a team member out of prison is always pretty cool.

[Leofric]

33 minutes ago, protar said:

 

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I expect that the Defenders will begin with DD getting his ass kicked by the Hand and then Claire acting as The Defender's Coulson, bringing everyone together. Including getting Luke out of jail. I guess recruiting a team member out of prison is always pretty cool.

 

Spoiler

Also, the last scene of Claire in the final episode, shows her tearing off the phone number from a flyer to sign up for martial arts/self defense classes, so is that how Iron Fist gets tied in?

 

[Arkash]

Spoiler

Claire taking that kung-fu ad on the street during the finale sure sets the stage for her meeting with Iron Fist ! 

EDIT : arf, beaten to it by the post just above ! 

[BigFatCoward]

So far i much prefer this to JJ, and think it is just a tiny fraction below DD S1.  

Having never read a comic in my life, how do the defenders match up on paper, because clearly LC is so much more powerful than DD and JJ on the TV shows. 

Stick me in the 'can't hear any difference between ER and A at the end of the word' camp.  

[polishgenius]

58 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said:

Having never read a comic in my life, how do the defenders match up on paper, because clearly LC is so much more powerful than DD and JJ on the TV shows.

I'm not directly familiar with the comic Defenders but from what I read this team is linked with the original by nothing but name. It's usually run by Doctor Strange and features heroes on a whole different order of power to the ones here (though it seems Luke is sometimes involved).

As for directly comparing the powers of the four involved- well, even the TV show make clear that JJ can stand with Luke for a bit, and take him out if she's got the right weapons, she's not that outmatched. Daredevil can't match him for pure strength but he's got other useful powers going on, and an ability to be subtle. Iron Fist has magic kung-fu powers so he's a bit like Daredevil, but with more of a punch. Overall, I'd say they're all pretty even.