Stannis Baratheon General

[The hairy bear]

24 minutes ago, NorthernXY said:

The isles aren't big enough to be a threat

The isles control a large part of the Westerosi fleet as seen in the Battle of the Blackwater. And their position is very strategic and could pose a threat to Westeros if they allied with an invader from Essos (Aegon VI or Dany could do a lot of harm if able to block the access to KL and throw surprise attacks at will).

Most importantly, it's a very prestigious post associated with the heir to the throne. Who could have Robert installed as Lord of Dragonstone? Someone who had Littlefinger or Varys in his small council doesn't seem to have a large pool of trusted loyal servants to choose from.

24 minutes ago, NorthernXY said:

Stannis could always get rid of anybody at SE once he was given his seat.  It's his castle, not the bloody cook's.

Look at the situation from another perspective. It's though luck to have Stannis as your lord. He is harsh, strict and unempathetic. He is unlikely to reward your good deeds (it was your duty) and will be extremely severe in your shortcomings.

Who would you want to inflict such a lord? To the your loyal servants who have fought for you during the war, or to your defeated enemies that kept resisting you even when their cause was lost?

[Little Scribe of Naath]

1 hour ago, Sullen said:

While holding Storm's End against Mace was certainly impressive for a boy of his age, to say that no one but Stannis could have done it is vastly exaggerating Stannis's accomplishments. After all, Storm's End had never fallen before at that point, ever, and this is Mace he was dealing with, one of the most disinterested and incompetent generals of the war. 

He did get some appreciation from his brother in the form of Dragonstone too, which was massive, and all of this despite Stannis being held responsible for failing to capture Daenerys and Viserys. (To be fair to him, it's undue criticism levelled his way)

Sullen, he held Storm's End for a year dining on rats and leather and was even prepared to consume human meat to survive if that's what it took. At 17. His effort was massively vital for the rebel campaign. There's a reason why Stannis is famous for that feat. I'm sorry, but that takes an iron will and I'm not sure who else would have really done it.

And yes, I'm talking about verbal appreciation. I do know he got Dragonstone and I think Robert gave it to him because he needed an extremely reliable guy on the traditional Targ stronghold (and plus to be the frontline of attack in case trouble came from the East.) Not necessarily a slight, but as usual, I'm sure Robert didn't even bother explaining any of this to his brother. A few words acknowledging what his brother had done for him would have gone a long way. Rather than blaming him for not capturing Dany and Viserys (if Bob was so concerned about that, he could have had them killed in the free Cities) or blatantly disrespecting him during his wedding.

[Little Scribe of Naath]

9 hours ago, Laughing Storm Reborn said:

I think the fact the two watched their parents die together on SE tower actually made them alienate eachother... Imo every time they were alone together after it was a painful memory lane... So they kept their distance for the sake of avoiding sorrow... Jon and Robb's most powerful memory is them playing swords, Bob and Stannis is watching their parents die... My two cents really

Not sure LSR....there's that story of Proudwing where Robert is taunting him. Their personalities were way too different to ever get along, I guess.

Though you may be right that things would have been much better if their parents were around. Steffon and Cassana seemed like  loving parents (that part about getting Patchface to make Stannis laugh was really cute and touching ..) Plus I think once when their dad took them to court, Bob held his hand the whole time, which seems reaalllyy unusual for him. So probably they did have a decent relationship before their parents' death.

It's actually ironic that Ned is quite similar to Stannis, and Bob is quite similar to Brandon Stark, Ned's elder brother. 

 

ETA: You actually reminded me of one my favourite posts on the Robert-Stannis relationship by the poster Queen Cersei 1:

Quote

When Robert was six and Stannis four, their father took them to court and Bob held Stannis by the hand. They both thought that the king was just wonderful. It was a few years before Stannis found out that Aerys had retired early and so it was Tywin they had seen and taken for the king.

That recollection, along with Cressen's memory of Stannis and Robert (aged 13 and 14) standing out on the cliff together and watching helplessly as their parents drowned, went a long way in illustrating that far more than a simple blood bond (that they both share with Renly) Robert and Stannis are (whether they like it or not, and both seemed to heartily dislike it) bound together by a number of early childhood experiences. After all, only a year apart, they clearly grew up together, and probably served as each others chief companions and playmates during the early years. (Stannis again notes Robert holding his hand the whole time when they went to see Tywin; clearly at age 5 and 6 they were still very close, and Stannis's remembering this detail suggests a very close relationship based on mutual love and trust.)

In short, the two share a deep bond that Renly clearly does not. Stannis and Robert are, as Cressen notes, "a mere year apart," they shared countless early childhood experiences, and could only have been very, very close, until the opposing features of their adulthood personalities began to emerge in their early teens or so. They shared not only countless expereiences, but were also together for the event that was probably the hugest formative moment in their lives to date, their parents death. Both in their early teens at the time, I'm not sure I can see Robert and Stannis "bonded" over their loss, holding each other gently as they had a good old fashioned bro weep. Yet it is undeniable that witnessing such a thing-- and bearing the grief over it-- was something that brought them together. Their shared grief over something Renly is far to young to remember.

Perhaps that is why, despite evidence that suggested that Robert at least strongly preferred Renly's company to that of Stannis, the two seemed to share a bond together considerably deeper than the one either shared with Renly. Robert's efforts to avoid speaking or thinking of his brother actually says a lot. And one needn't be a psychologist to pick up on the fact that Stannis is just a little bit hung up on his big brother, whom he mentions in nearly every (if not all) scene he's in.

But anyway:

Why did Robert dislike Stannis? A number of complex reasons. I'll list a few of the more prominent:

1. Opposing personality types. Robert wanted to have fun all day and be irresponsible; Stannis wanted to work and do his duty and make everyone around him do theirs. We're talking about the man who forbade laughter in his dining halls, here. Cant's see him getting on too much with Robert, who, besides hunting and whoring, loved nothing more than to get rip roaring drunk in public and start singing bawdy songs.

2. Stannis's distain. Robert wanted more than anything to be loved, and as Cersei notes, was forever going to places where he got easy loves, smiles, and happiness. Stannis is grim, unforgiving, and apt to hold onto (and air) various resentments. In addition to killing Robert's fun, King Bob (who needed to think of himself as some big, awesome, badass warrior even when everything around him shouted the contrary) Stannis would have looked at him judgementally, which would have annoyed Robert.

3. Robert's guilt. Even Robert was doubtlessly aware that Stannis had been doing his duty by him, Robert, his whole life, and made many sacrifices in doing so. Yet Stannis's cold disaproval-- as well as his blatantly making it clear that it was duty, rather than love, that made him obey Robert-- would not have endeared him to Robert.

Yet, seeing the many things Stannis had done for him, Robert must have felt some degree of guilt. At such times, Robert often seems to lash out at Stannis-- "accidentally" doing something to make himself feel better ASAP, and that often seems very much like an insult to Stannis.

For instance, Robert claims that he "didn't mean to" take Selyse's cousin into the very bed made up for Stannis and his bride during the wedding reception. And yet... out of all of the beds in the big huge castle, he just "stumbled" into that one?

It seems to me as though instead, Stannis married a woman he found highly unattractive, which Robert saw. (Selyse is like the medusa of the ASOIAF saga-- no man can stand before her without shuddering with disgust!) Robert no doubt then felt unconsciously guilty, then annoyed at that goody goody, holier than thou brother of his. Then he saw that Selyse had a hot young cousin of, I'm guessing, 14. He then got a good idea of how to distract himself...

A good 10 wineskins later, he decided that if Stannis and his ugly bride (obviosuly) weren't going to enjoy that bed, someone must! So he went upstairs and did so himself.

Again, his official story is, "Whoops! Didn't mean to-- seriously! Too much ale!", but it seems to me as though it was more a matter of wanting distraction for the knawing guilt of marrying Stannis unhappilly, and a subtle "up yours" to Stannis, whom I'm sure attempted to hide neither his disgust for Selyse nor his resentment about the marriage in general.

 

[Sullen]

35 minutes ago, Little Scribe of Naath said:

Sullen, he held Storm's End for a year dining on rats and leather and was even prepared to consume human meat to survive if that's what it took. At 17. His effort was massively vital for the rebel campaign. There's a reason why Stannis is famous for that feat. I'm sorry, but that takes an iron will and I'm not sure who else would have really done it.

A task which was alleviated by a boatful of onions, lest we forget.

As for who would have been willing to do the same, in the very same castle I could name two: Ser Courtney Penrose and Donal Noye. Both extremely loyal to their liege, stubborn to no end, and, in the case of Noye, is said to be a very capable commander. Both also stood their grounds against worst odds than Stannis, Penrose against Stannis's newly formed host while he didn't have any allies left in the fields, and Noye against a Wildling host, culminated in him holding off a freaking giant.

Unless you seriously believe that no one ever sieged Storm's End for more than a year until Mace came along, than Stannis's endeavour, while impressive and a true testament to his character, is not something that "he alone could have done".

42 minutes ago, Little Scribe of Naath said:

And yes, I'm talking about verbal appreciation. I do know he got Dragonstone and I think Robert gave it to him because he needed an extremely reliable guy on the traditional Targ stronghold (and plus to be the frontline of attack in case trouble came from the East.) Not necessarily a slight, but as usual, I'm sure Robert didn't even bother explaining any of this to his brother. A few words acknowledging what his brother had done for him would have gone a long way. Rather than blaming him for not capturing Dany and Viserys (if Bob was so concerned about that, he could have had them killed in the free Cities) or blatantly disrespecting him during his wedding.

Robert not verbalizing his gratitude does not make his rewarding of Stannis any less generous.

Concerning Dany and Viserys, Robert hesitates to act due to moral reasons, as he can see having doubts and regretting the action on his deathbed. It's not until after the threat becomes clear when Dany is said to be pregnant that his hand is forced.

As for Robert humiliating Stannis on his wedding night, it was simply Robert being Robert, no disrespect was meant in that.