TheKrakenAndTheWolf Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 Ok, I know it might be far-fetched but I was wondering if it was related with the AA prophecy. We know that in order to create the Lightbringer, Azor Ahai sacrificed Nissa Nissa. If we assume that Jon is AA reborn, his Nissa Nissa would be Arya, since she's the person that he loves the most. Also, in the chapters of GOT when Arya is having her water dancing lessons with Syrio, he says to her "Boy, girl, You are a sword, that is all.". What if "Kill the boy and let the man be born" is not just a saying about Jon being mature, but it also foreshadows future events from TWOW? Thoughts about that? **In my opinion, Arya is more qualified than Ygritte to be his Nissa Nissa, if Jon is indeed AA. Jon indeed, loved Ygritte, but for Arya he was ready to break his vows to the Night's Watch, before ending up getting stabbed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywater-Watch Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 You are aware that the moment GRRM makes Jon Snow kill Arya, myself (and probably many others) quit reading? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scott Malkinson Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 4 hours ago, TheKrakenAndTheWolf said: Ok, I know it might be far-fetched but I was wondering if it was related with the AA prophecy. We know that in order to create the Lightbringer, Azor Ahai sacrificed Nissa Nissa. If we assume that Jon is AA reborn, his Nissa Nissa would be Arya, since she's the person that he loves the most. Also, in the chapters of GOT when Arya is having her water dancing lessons with Syrio, he says to her "Boy, girl, You are a sword, that is all.". What if "Kill the boy and let the man be born" is not just a saying about Jon being mature, but it also foreshadows future events from TWOW? Thoughts about that? **In my opinion, Arya is more qualified than Ygritte to be his Nissa Nissa, if Jon is indeed AA. Jon indeed, loved Ygritte, but for Arya he was ready to break his vows to the Night's Watch, before ending up getting stabbed. AA is probably not just going to be one person. Sure, Jon might be one among many on who the prophecy is applicable by the end, but so will Dany be, and possibly Jaime, and Davos, and Bran, and Brienne, and Pate, etc. In my opinion, "Kill the boy and let the man be born" is more foreshadowing to what's happening to Jon right now. The 'boy' Jon Snow has just been killed, and when he is resurrected, he will be different and thus the 'man' Jon Snow/Stark/Targaryen/Whatevs will be born. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKrakenAndTheWolf Posted October 5, 2016 Author Share Posted October 5, 2016 4 minutes ago, Ser Scott Malkinson said: In my opinion, "Kill the boy and let the man be born" is more foreshadowing to what's happening to Jon right now. The 'boy' Jon Snow has just been killed, and when he is resurrected, he will be different and thus the 'man' Jon Snow/Stark/Targaryen/Whatevs will be born. Of course this could be the case, but I was wondering if it also meant something else at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scott Malkinson Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 1 minute ago, TheKrakenAndTheWolf said: Of course this could be the case, but I was wondering if it also meant something else at the same time. To answer that, I don't think Jon is going to kill Arya, but she is called 'boy' a lot (so great find there). I don't really get what 'man' will be born though. Azor Ahai? As I said, I don't think the prophecy of AA is that important and that a lot of characters can be interpreted to have been AA by the end of the books, with none of them being 'the' hero who saved Westeros from the Others, though they will have had a role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKrakenAndTheWolf Posted October 5, 2016 Author Share Posted October 5, 2016 8 minutes ago, Ser Scott Malkinson said: To answer that, I don't think Jon is going to kill Arya, but she is called 'boy' a lot (so great find there). I don't really get what 'man' will be born though. Azor Ahai? As I said, I don't think the prophecy of AA is that important and that a lot of characters can be interpreted to have been AA by the end of the books, with none of them being 'the' hero who saved Westeros from the Others, though they will have had a role. The prophecy of AA could be "false" or not so important, I totally agree with you on this. Since we know from the AWOIAF book that the legend of AA is told by different religions and in different areas, using many names for the one hero that saves the day, I hardly believe there will be one hero. My actual point is -sorry,if I didn't make it clear enough in my original post-, that if the AA prophecy is credible and Jon is AA reborn, Arya has to die, since she is the dearest person to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 Why Jon has to kill a living person to be AAR? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scott Malkinson Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 1 minute ago, TheKrakenAndTheWolf said: The prophecy of AA could be "false" or not so important, I totally agree with you on this. Since we know from the AWOIAF book that the legend of AA is told by different religions and in different areas, using many names for the one hero that saves the day, I hardly believe there will be one hero. My actual point is -sorry,if I didn't make it clear enough in my original post-, that if the AA prophecy is credible and Jon is AA reborn, Arya has to die, since she is the dearest person to him. I'd say you were pretty clear. But Nissa Nissa has nothing to do with Azor Ahai's birth or rebirth, I'd say. Nissa Nissa is linked to Lightbringer. Azor Ahai is not born because of her death, Lightbringer is forged because of it. So I don't think Arya would have to die for Jon to be (a version of) AA, unless he forges Lightbringer (maybe). At the very least, the quote "Kill the boy and let the man be born" doesn't seem to fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKrakenAndTheWolf Posted October 5, 2016 Author Share Posted October 5, 2016 Just now, Ser Scott Malkinson said: I'd say you were pretty clear. But Nissa Nissa has nothing to do with Azor Ahai's birth or rebirth, I'd say. Nissa Nissa is linked to Lightbringer. Azor Ahai is not born because of her death, Lightbringer is forged because of it. So I don't think Arya would have to die for Jon to be (a version of) AA, unless he forges Lightbringer (maybe). At the very least, the quote "Kill the boy and let the man be born" doesn't seem to fit. Hmm.. I will have to look it up more, but I believe you are right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Land's End Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 14 hours ago, Ser Scott Malkinson said: In my opinion, "Kill the boy and let the man be born" is more foreshadowing to what's happening to Jon right now. The 'boy' Jon Snow has just been killed, and when he is resurrected, he will be different and thus the 'man' Jon Snow/Stark/Targaryen/Whatevs will be born. This. Though I think Jon is either dead dead or not dead at all. Being stabbed a couple of times should qualify as killing the boy in a metaphorical sense. No need for him to be literally dead. I’m reconstructing the original argument: Syrio calls Arya a boy once Aemon tells Jon he has to kill the boy and let the man be born Conclusion: Jon has to kill Arya What? I don’t think there needs to be a Nissa Nissa + I sincerely hope the next two-four books won’t be about a bunch of people killing their loved ones in order to fulfill some prophecy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox of House McCloud Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 14 hours ago, Jon's Queen Consort said: Why Jon has to kill a living person to be AAR? You propose he kills... a dead person? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywater-Watch Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 I never thought this to be taken literal.If I recall correctly, Maester Aemon says the words to Lord Commander Jon Snow when asked for advice for a difficult decision. And Maester Aemon also puts it into the context, that he had said this to Aegon the Unlikely too, when he became King. It just means: If you want to lead, you cannot allow yourself to have the same feelings guide you (compassion, doubt etc.) such as a child. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 9 hours ago, Fox of House McCloud said: You propose he kills... a dead person? To not kill anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scott Malkinson Posted October 8, 2016 Share Posted October 8, 2016 On 6-10-2016 at 4:49 AM, Fox of House McCloud said: You propose he kills... a dead person? Well, that would be possible in this world... (wights, Beric, etc) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roose on the Loose Posted October 8, 2016 Share Posted October 8, 2016 I'm not sure about prophesy. On the surface it's clear that Aemon and Jeor discusses Jon at some point and came to the shared conclusion that Jon would be a great asset to the Watch if he ever grew up. The Aemon quote is likely related to Jeor asking "Are you a man of the Night's Watch, or just a bastard boy playing at war?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julia H. Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 11 hours ago, Roose on the Loose said: On the surface it's clear that Aemon and Jeor discusses Jon at some point and came to the shared conclusion that Jon would be a great asset to the Watch if he ever grew up. Why would anyone doubt that an intelligent 15-year-old boy would eventually grow up (provided he survived long enough)? The NW is a place where you can't remain a child for long anyway. When Jon became LC, he needed to further speed up the process, of course. "Killing the boy" is a metaphore for an abrupt change. Normally, the boy gradually grows into a man, but now there is no time for the natural way, the boy must be "killed" to give way to the man abruptly, overnight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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