Nymeria Pao Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 As we all know with 100% certainty Catlyn as LSH will not be in GoT. But as we've seen in season 6 Beric is still alive and TBwB is still a major plot. So based on the hints D&D have included in their story (I will not call it ASoIaF anymore) I think what will happen is that somehow Arya will be killed trying to get to the people on her list and Beric will give Arya his life as he did to Catlyn in the books. I think Arya will be LSH. Maybe in the books LSH will come upon Arya's body and give Arya her life as Beric had given his to her??? If someone else has already thought of this, please send me a link! Also if my theory holds ground what do you think Arya's nature will be once resurrected? Will she be full of vengeance as her mother was? She is pretty much full of vengeance now so what would be the difference if she becomes "LSH"???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meera of Tarth Posted October 11, 2016 Share Posted October 11, 2016 On 6/10/2016 at 3:13 PM, Nymeria Pao said: As we all know with 100% certainty Catlyn as LSH will not be in GoT. But as we've seen in season 6 Beric is still alive and TBwB is still a major plot. So based on the hints D&D have included in their story (I will not call it ASoIaF anymore) I think what will happen is that somehow Arya will be killed trying to get to the people on her list and Beric will give Arya his life as he did to Catlyn in the books. I think Arya will be LSH. Maybe in the books LSH will come upon Arya's body and give Arya her life as Beric had given his to her??? If someone else has already thought of this, please send me a link! Also if my theory holds ground what do you think Arya's nature will be once resurrected? Will she be full of vengeance as her mother was? She is pretty much full of vengeance now so what would be the difference if she becomes "LSH"???? You suggest that Arya would die and LSh would die again for Arya. I don't think it's likely. Arya is a major character and has her own story. This change would mean that the ending in the books would not have Arya, but a LSH Arya, and it's totally impossible. The ending is going to be the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanginginWesteros Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 On 10/6/2016 at 9:13 AM, Nymeria Pao said: As we all know with 100% certainty Catlyn as LSH will not be in GoT. But as we've seen in season 6 Beric is still alive and TBwB is still a major plot. So based on the hints D&D have included in their story (I will not call it ASoIaF anymore) I think what will happen is that somehow Arya will be killed trying to get to the people on her list and Beric will give Arya his life as he did to Catlyn in the books. I think Arya will be LSH. Maybe in the books LSH will come upon Arya's body and give Arya her life as Beric had given his to her??? If someone else has already thought of this, please send me a link! Also if my theory holds ground what do you think Arya's nature will be once resurrected? Will she be full of vengeance as her mother was? She is pretty much full of vengeance now so what would be the difference if she becomes "LSH"???? I like your theory a lot. And it would realign the TV show with the books, particularly if the showrunners have definitely dropped the Lady Stoneheart subplot(and it seems like they have). I do think it's obvious that Arya has been given her version of the LSH story with her revenge list/plot. I also think like you that Arya is doomed if she continues down this murderous trajectory and will definitely die (not Sansa--I think she's a survivor). I like your idea about Beric giving his life to her the way he did to Catelyn in the books. But yes, I do think Arya is so far gone at this point that death seems like her only redemption. Good god--she killed two men, chopped them up in a pie and then served them to their father. That's taking revenge to a "Titus Andronicus"-like level of derangement. (She also probably killed an innocent servant girl whose face she wore to gain access to the Frey household) You can't come back from that and be a normal person. Whatever her detractors may think of her, Sansa doesn't have a revenge/murder list. Yes, she unleashed Ramsey's feral hounds on him--but it was clear he was going to be executed anyway by the Starks--so why not use his vicious hounds on him, which were like an extension of himself, the way he used them as weapons against everyone else? Maybe if Beric does resurrect Arya by giving her his life then Arya might have some hope of redemption by starting a new life with a new mindset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoreOrLess Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 7 hours ago, HanginginWesteros said: I like your theory a lot. And it would realign the TV show with the books, particularly if the showrunners have definitely dropped the Lady Stoneheart subplot(and it seems like they have). I do think it's obvious that Arya has been given her version of the LSH story with her revenge list/plot. I also think like you that Arya is doomed if she continues down this murderous trajectory and will definitely die (not Sansa--I think she's a survivor). I like your idea about Beric giving his life to her the way he did to Catelyn in the books. But yes, I do think Arya is so far gone at this point that death seems like her only redemption. Good god--she killed two men, chopped them up in a pie and then served them to their father. That's taking revenge to a "Titus Andronicus"-like level of derangement. (She also probably killed an innocent servant girl whose face she wore to gain access to the Frey household) You can't come back from that and be a normal person. Whatever her detractors may think of her, Sansa doesn't have a revenge/murder list. Yes, she unleashed Ramsey's feral hounds on him--but it was clear he was going to be executed anyway by the Starks--so why not use his vicious hounds on him, which were like an extension of himself, the way he used them as weapons against everyone else? Maybe if Beric does resurrect Arya by giving her his life then Arya might have some hope of redemption by starting a new life with a new mindset. I suspect that part of the reason LSH looks to have been dropped(still not totally impossible I spose) is that her and Ayra potentially end up following rather similar paths and D&D felt this might lessen the impact for Ayra. You could argue that the face she wore at the Twins was actually picked up from the House of B&W, Walder didn't recognise her for example which tends to suggest it didn't come from an existing servant. I would say as well that the plot with the faceless men shows that she isn't capable of killing innocent people, its more a question of her taking too much joy in brutally killing those who a guilty of some heinous crime. I think your dealing less with a sociopath and more with someone who is using revenge as a coping mechanism. I'd agree though there's definite a chance this path leads to her death although personally my guess would be that she heads to Kings Landing originally after Cersei but actually ends up helping stop her burning the city as Dany closes in, either getting over her revenge focus or dying. I do think Ayra has a better chance of making it to the end than Sansa personally simply because I can see how her character would play off of the supernatural climax with the Walkers, Sansa on the other hand to me seems much more a purely "political" character. I think it would only make sense to have Beric raise her if her death is a big climax(plus of course hard to see him ending up in Kings Landing), just having her dying for the sake of allowing him to dye to bring her back seems rather pointless. I'm sure they could come up with some other better use for him, perhaps have Ayra kill Mel in the Riverlands and then Beric revive her? Theres a lot of combinations of characters who could get involved there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nymeria Pao Posted October 15, 2016 Author Share Posted October 15, 2016 On 10/12/2016 at 5:47 PM, MoreOrLess said: ... I think it would only make sense to have Beric raise her if her death is a big climax(plus of course hard to see him ending up in Kings Landing), just having her dying for the sake of allowing him to dye to bring her back seems rather pointless. I'm sure they could come up with some other better use for him, perhaps have Ayra kill Mel in the Riverlands and then Beric revive her? Theres a lot of combinations of characters who could get involved there. Oh I like the idea that if it is not Arya it could be Mel. And again I am only basing this on the show. But I still truly believe that it is the way to tie up the LSH story into GoT's story. And I can def see Arya leading BwB! I do think that if Arya (whether LSH or not) does not let go of all the hate and vengeance her arc can only lead to her death. Which I am hoping won't happen. And we still have yet to "see" Nymeria in the show again. Her story has been changed (as most of the stories in the show) so much. No wolf dreams. No wolf girl. No real lessons learned at the House of Black n White. The only way I can see it making sense that D&D changed and/or cut out all that, is for her to be resurrected as LSH. I am probably wrong, but in my head it would make sense in D&D's story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nymeria Pao Posted October 15, 2016 Author Share Posted October 15, 2016 On 10/12/2016 at 10:06 AM, HanginginWesteros said: I like your theory a lot. And it would realign the TV show with the books, particularly if the showrunners have definitely dropped the Lady Stoneheart subplot(and it seems like they have). I do think it's obvious that Arya has been given her version of the LSH story with her revenge list/plot. I also think like you that Arya is doomed if she continues down this murderous trajectory and will definitely die (not Sansa--I think she's a survivor). I like your idea about Beric giving his life to her the way he did to Catelyn in the books. But yes, I do think Arya is so far gone at this point that death seems like her only redemption. Good god--she killed two men, chopped them up in a pie and then served them to their father. That's taking revenge to a "Titus Andronicus"-like level of derangement. (She also probably killed an innocent servant girl whose face she wore to gain access to the Frey household) You can't come back from that and be a normal person. Whatever her detractors may think of her, Sansa doesn't have a revenge/murder list. Yes, she unleashed Ramsey's feral hounds on him--but it was clear he was going to be executed anyway by the Starks--so why not use his vicious hounds on him, which were like an extension of himself, the way he used them as weapons against everyone else? Maybe if Beric does resurrect Arya by giving her his life then Arya might have some hope of redemption by starting a new life with a new mindset. Thank you!!! I agee 100% that D&D's Arya is in real need of a redemption arc. Did you see that smile when she slit Walder's throat... Also, I do see a correlation between the Bran, Jon and possibly Arya. Bran's "death" (falling from the tower) brought on his powers. Jon's death (in the show) made him who he became in the season ending (not sure now to use the spoiler there) and I think Arya's death will prompt her to become something too. I think in the books their deaths bring out their respective warging powers but do not think D&D will give anyone else other than Bran that power. I'm afraid I don't think Sansa will make it. But I am basing that on Lady dying.... I can't wait till TwoW comes out!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nymeria Pao Posted October 15, 2016 Author Share Posted October 15, 2016 On 10/11/2016 at 5:45 PM, Meera of Tarth said: You suggest that Arya would die and LSh would die again for Arya. I don't think it's likely. Arya is a major character and has her own story. This change would mean that the ending in the books would not have Arya, but a LSH Arya, and it's totally impossible. The ending is going to be the same. I think LSH of the books needs to have some reason for being alive other than just killing Frey's. Although I do agree that Arya's arc in the books does not seem to be leading us to an Arya/LSH but the show's Arya is a completely different beast. D&D's Arya did not learn the lessons that GRRM's Arya learned in Bravos. And the only way I can see them bringing her back to where she should be in ASoIaF is this way. I mean, did you see that smile on her face in the last scene. I think Arya of the books has learned too much about death to be so gleeful about it. Even to someone on her list. And in the show, I am thinking D&D trying to live up to George's story, will not make it easy at all for the Stark kids left. And as per the books, if LSH did resurrect Arya, I don't think Arya would turn into LSH. I think that is just in the show. I think it would be Catlyn's redemption. Bringing her child back to life. Giving her "life" for her child's. I think that is a beautiful way for LSH to become Catlyn again. I am probably wrong but I do think this is the way for them (D&D) to make the story "work." Thank you for your thoughts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meera of Tarth Posted October 15, 2016 Share Posted October 15, 2016 On 15/10/2016 at 2:58 PM, Nymeria Pao said: I think LSH of the books needs to have some reason for being alive other than just killing Frey's. Although I do agree that Arya's arc in the books does not seem to be leading us to an Arya/LSH but the show's Arya is a completely different beast. D&D's Arya did not learn the lessons that GRRM's Arya learned in Bravos. And the only way I can see them bringing her back to where she should be in ASoIaF is this way. I mean, did you see that smile on her face in the last scene. I think Arya of the books has learned too much about death to be so gleeful about it. Even to someone on her list. And in the show, I am thinking D&D trying to live up to George's story, will not make it easy at all for the Stark kids left. And as per the books, if LSH did resurrect Arya, I don't think Arya would turn into LSH. I think that is just in the show. I think it would be Catlyn's redemption. Bringing her child back to life. Giving her "life" for her child's. I think that is a beautiful way for LSH to become Catlyn again. I am probably wrong but I do think this is the way for them (D&D) to make the story "work." Thank you for your thoughts! I personally think that this smile was made for fan service or shock value, that she was not the "normal" Arya we see in the other episodes. The same happened in the Season 5 finae, and then she returned to being the normal Arya we know. I don't know if Arya would learn anything from being dead, because Jon apparently became just the same person he had always been and acted the same way.That doesn't mean that it could not happen; but I don't think she'd learn anything from that. I think she'll have to learn (if she has to) in another more conventional way. As for the books, I have no clue where LSH is headed to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoreOrLess Posted October 15, 2016 Share Posted October 15, 2016 3 hours ago, Nymeria Pao said: Oh I like the idea that if it is not Arya it could be Mel. And again I am only basing this on the show. But I still truly believe that it is the way to tie up the LSH story into GoT's story. And I can def see Arya leading BwB! I do think that if Arya (whether LSH or not) does not let go of all the hate and vengeance her arc can only lead to her death. Which I am hoping won't happen. And we still have yet to "see" Nymeria in the show again. Her story has been changed (as most of the stories in the show) so much. No wolf dreams. No wolf girl. No real lessons learned at the House of Black n White. The only way I can see it making sense that D&D changed and/or cut out all that, is for her to be resurrected as LSH. I am probably wrong, but in my head it would make sense in D&D's story. Yes I think your correct that the show has presented Ayra's arc as her revenge obsession and potentially friendship with Sandor. That's why I suspect her most likely story is heading to Kings Landing after Cersei/Gregor(potentially with Sandor) as it allows for focus on that AND potential redemption if Ayra shifts from revenge to helping to stop Cersei burn the city with wildfire, maybe dying in the process or maybe Sandor dies and Ayra ia redeemed and goes on to be involve din the north. That could maybe buy into Beric being "expendable" on the show, perhaps the brotherhood get attacked by Lannisster/Frye forces and Sandor gets sent back to KL for the reward? The alternative would be something happening in the Riverlands but its very hard to guess exactly what that might be since there are so many potential players, Ayra, Brienne, Beric, Sandor, Mel, Littlefinger, Sansa, Edmure, etc. Its possible I spose that if Ayra's wolf story has a part to play in the end game then it might be introduced next season to be used the following season. The show doesn't like too much setup along time before any payoff so if it was going to have wolf dream it would likely do so closer to there having a payoff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonSnowed Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 I suspect Stoneheart was dropped entirely to avoid cheapening the Jon resurrection and not much else - besides not sure it would make great TV given she can't speak. I suspect Beric will take over her book plot which seems at this point to be ending up in the North after killing some Freys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashes Of Westeros Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 On 10/16/2016 at 8:35 PM, JonSnowed said: I suspect Stoneheart was dropped entirely to avoid cheapening the Jon resurrection and not much else - besides not sure it would make great TV given she can't speak. I suspect Beric will take over her book plot which seems at this point to be ending up in the North after killing some Freys. I agree with it. Beric was resurrected as well but it was showed as something pretty casual. I think that show cut off the whole idea that resurrection is changing a personality in an unpredictable way. I also agree that LSH's role was distributed between Arya (revenge part) and Beric (resurrection part), while Beric probably will give his life to some other important character, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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