Calibandar Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 New season starting in a few weeks. So I've watched the two pre-season games the Thunder have just played against Real Madrid and Barca. That looks........ pretty terrible. Taking disclaimers about pre-season into account, I see a variety of massive problems and a team that looks completely different from the Thunder team we know. It's not just Durant's absence,which does leave a huge hole not just in theory but on the court. They are starting Westbrook-Oladipo-Roberson-Sabonis- Adams. Kanter comes off the bench. So what you're seeing is: 1) Very few people for Westbrook to play the ball to. There's Oladipo, and Kanter when he comes in. Adams has very little offensive game and I'm not sure how much this can improve even though I value him greatly. Sabonis and Roberson are non-entities going forward at this point. 2) This leads to a lot of shooting from Westbrook and let's say that so far he hasn't found his shot. His drives and dunks are awesome of course, but the shooting was always the most dubious aspect and with no one to claim the ball, we'll see more of it. 3) Ibaka's absence is keenly felt. Adams got injured in the first game and suddenly you have neither of your two top defenders from the last two seasons. In addition he is no longer an option in the offense and that too is felt. I was one of the few people who did not like the Ibaka trade at all and my feelings have not changed. Yes you get 3 guys in return but two of those are mediocre and one basically replaces Dion Waiters that they let go. All in all I watched that and thought , yes, it's really only Golden State vs the Cavs this year, with the Spurs and and Clippers as a secondary tier. OKC could finish anywhere from 4th-12th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Selig Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 I disagree with the first point. Sure, Durant will be missed. But Adams and Westbrook were very effective pick and roll duo last season. Sabonis showed that he has a 3 pt range in the preseason games, he's shown in college he is a solid midrange shooter and he is already a much better post scorer and passer than Ibaka (not surprising since Ibaka has always been atrocious at that), Oladipo is a much better offensive player than Waiters at everything, and Kanter is a terrific scorer. The OKC bench is full of good to great 3pt shooters (Abrines, Morrow, Ilyasova). Roberson didn't shoot much in the 2 preseason games so far, but his shot looks improved and he's also clearly improved his ballhandling and passing quite a bit. I expect them to have more problems on defense than on offense. Sure, Adams and Roberson are really good defenders, but they aren't used to playing huge minutes, and will probably have to sacrifice some of their defense for offense from Kanter and Abrines at times. Oladipo and Westbrook can be very good on this end when engaged, but they would have to save energy for offense since they are the only shot creators, More importantly, the bench is downright disastrous on defence. Kanter is still terrible at this end, Morrow can't guard anyone, Sabonis has some potential, but he's still a rookie and makes mental mistakes, Ilyasova is too slow for a PF on D, Abrines will need time to adapt to the pace of the NBA and doesn't look like defense is his strong suit. They really need to get another shotblocker IMO, they are way too dependant on Adams staying healthy and playing huge minutes and they have way too many bigs who are weak on D and mostly for offense (Kanter, Ilyasova, Sabonis, Lauvergne, McGary). Quote 2) This leads to a lot of shooting from Westbrook and let's say that so far he hasn't found his shot. His drives and dunks are awesome of course, but the shooting was always the most dubious aspect and with no one to claim the ball, we'll see more of it. His post game looks clearly improved. Apart from that, he looks the same as last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 OKC will struggle out the gate, but they'll be fine by midseason. I'd expect them to finish as the 5th or 6th seed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefCurry Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 I think Oladipo will be one of the leaders in OKC in this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DireWolfSpirit Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 I think OKC will be borderline whether they can even make the playoffs with that offense. They look like a similar team too Houston with a Harden/Westbrook ballhog centric offense. Real eyebleeding stuff. I cant see them winning any more than 40 games and feel thats generous. This isnt San Antonio that is just gonna reload. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Thursday Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 2 hours ago, DireWolfSpirit said: I think OKC will be borderline whether they can even make the playoffs with that offense. They look like a similar team too Houston with a Harden/Westbrook ballhog centric offense. Real eyebleeding stuff. I cant see them winning any more than 40 games and feel thats generous. This isnt San Antonio that is just gonna reload. Houston actually look much, much better in the preseason games they've played so far. They've de-emphasized the long, slow Harden-centric iso ball they were playing last year and are actually moving both themselves and the ball. It's amazing what happens when they're willing to run a pick-and-roll early in the shot clock with good spacing. If their defence can hold up they're going to be in for a bounce back year - they certainly won't be the horrible mess to watch that they were last season, anyway. ST Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Selig Posted October 8, 2016 Share Posted October 8, 2016 6 hours ago, DireWolfSpirit said: I think OKC will be borderline whether they can even make the playoffs with that offense. They look like a similar team too Houston with a Harden/Westbrook ballhog centric offense. Real eyebleeding stuff. I cant see them winning any more than 40 games and feel thats generous. This isnt San Antonio that is just gonna reload. Houston were 8th in offensive efficiency last season. Their offense was ugly, but effective. They sucked because their defense was terrible. Anyway, OKC's Westbrook centred offense was really good in 2014-15 after they got Kanter and Durant was pronounced out for the season. It may not be pretty if you are looking for smooth passing game and getting everyone involved, but with Westbrook being his normal self and Kanter probably getting much more minutes this season it is likely to be quite effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefCurry Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 What do you think about Lakers this season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DireWolfSpirit Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 1 hour ago, StefCurry said: What do you think about Lakers this season? Who are there starting 5 and key players off the bench anymore anyways? ESPN is showing this as their Depth Chart http://www.espn.com/nba/team/depth/_/name/lal/los-angeles-lakers LA was 29th out of 30 teams in Offensive Efficiency and 30th out of 30 teams in Defensive Efficiency last season. Now Kobe has retired and theyve had a draft so things will change on the margins. But if you are a Laker fan, the best counsel I could give is continued patience. Turning this corner is gonna take a few seasons or more imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calibandar Posted October 9, 2016 Author Share Posted October 9, 2016 That depth chart is clearly not updated for the new season. They are probably starting Russell and Clarkson as the backcourt, next to Deng, Randle and Mozgov. They´ve said Ingram will come off the bench for now. It´ll be good to see how these guys develop. Likewise it is such a shame Ben Simmons is out till the end of the year at least. I do so hope they won´t take him out for the entire season just to be as careful as possible. But watching Embiid on the sizers is interesting to me, and Okafor as well. I´ve already seen enough of Dario Saric in pre/season and Olympics to see that he is indeed a very talented young guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DireWolfSpirit Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 Yeah the ESPN Depth Charts are notoriously slow updating. Im trying to recall but I seem to remember CBS SPORTS website as pretty current in the past, but I havent peaked at it in many months now so I couldnt say for sure. (Ah Here it is, was looking at my Pistons) http://www.cbssports.com/nba/teams/depth-chart/DET/detroit-pistons These guys do a better job than ESPN staying current. Theres been little need for me to check much on depth charts being a Pistons fan. For 2016/17 our starting 5 will be the same. Weve added Ish Smith as a backup PG and drafted inside help, added a few inside reserves, its going to be a very similar team as the 2015/16 Pistons, only Drummond, Jackson, KPope, etal, will all have another year under VanGundy's system. I expect continued improvement and no problem for them to make the playoffs and have a competitive chance on at least advancing to the 2nd round. Theres been a rules adjustment that will make it more difficult for when the teams can employ the hack-a-shaq strategy. Drummond and Detroit will benefit from that rule adjustment this year. Our biggest concern going into the season currently is that our starting PG Reggie Jackson, has a banged up knee and is expected to be down for about the next 8 weeks. Hopefully that'll heal up and everything can move forward, because w/out Jackson the team lacks a primetime closer. Gotta get Reggie healthy here in Motown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calibandar Posted October 10, 2016 Author Share Posted October 10, 2016 I expect a lot from Detroit this season. They already looked very good last year in several games and because Drummond keeps getting better and the team improves in depth as well, I expect them to finish top 4 in the East. It is a shame that Jackson is out until mid December. I also like that they brought in Boban. Morris and Harris are solid contributors, Caldwell Pope has improved and Stanley Johnson is a good player with attitude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calibandar Posted October 16, 2016 Author Share Posted October 16, 2016 Couple of guys who've stood out to me in pre-season games so far: -D'Angelo Russell with the Lakers -Durant looks in phenomenal shape with the Warriors. I don't doubt that for him personally this was a great decision. -Jabari Parker- Yup, this guy is going to be a star in the league as of this season already IMO. -Embiid- Still very limited sample size but you have to like what you see here. -Porzingis- Looking very solid so far, great shot, good around the basket, capable. -Griffin. Missed most of last season but looks his old self in pre-season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefCurry Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 D'Angelo Russell will be really finding for Lakers in this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arryn Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 What are the chances Kobe becomes the first retired player to get voted to the All-Defensive team this year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingintheNorth4 Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 The MCW-Snell trade makes zero sense for either team involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argonath Diver Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 It's a weird one, to be sure. I spend more time on my Bulls and Cardinals forums than here, and will try to keep this rant as short as I can (yeah, right). In my opinion, Snell was never going to be used her other than garbage time. He never once showed any heart on the court the entire time I saw him play. I can only hear "He is long and hits 3s at 38% though" for so long - the guy was never going to be more than a 11th man. MCW is almost or even more reviled on Bucks boards, mostly because he spent a lot more time on the court than Snell. I have no clue why we traded for another non-shooting guard, which seems like our absolute last need. Why did we draft Valentine then? Why is Dinwhiddie, who 99% of Bulls fans agree looks better on the court than Grant (who is also completely reviled by every Knicks fan I know, and I live in NYC and hear about the Knicks all the time), not even getting minutes in the pre-season? I am really, really down on what the Bulls are doing. I loathe our coach. I loathe our front office. Now I have to watch Wade and Rondo, two players I have actively disliked for ten years, run around in Bulls jerseys. Butler went from my favorite ever 12mpg bench guy to an arrogant dick last year. Niko is trying to play himself off the team this pre-season, looking just terrible. Last night I was very impressed with Robin Lopez' hustle. He was playing like it was a playoff game, not pre-season. Dig it. Other than that, I didn't like a single thing I saw on the court or from our joke of a coach. I expect another ugly, dissatisfying 42ish win season. And I can't wait! Go Bulls! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 Can't believe the season starts in less than a week. So pumped! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calibandar Posted October 19, 2016 Author Share Posted October 19, 2016 12 hours ago, Argonath Diver said: I am really, really down on what the Bulls are doing. I loathe our coach. I loathe our front office. Now I have to watch Wade and Rondo, two players I have actively disliked for ten years, run around in Bulls jerseys. Butler went from my favorite ever 12mpg bench guy to an arrogant dick last year. Niko is trying to play himself off the team this pre-season, looking just terrible. Last night I was very impressed with Robin Lopez' hustle. He was playing like it was a playoff game, not pre-season. Dig it. Other than that, I didn't like a single thing I saw on the court or from our joke of a coach. I expect another ugly, dissatisfying 42ish win season. And I can't wait! Go Bulls! Totally get this about the Bulls. So they trade Rose, ok, some liked, some don't, but you get Rondo in return which is a step back. In other ways the team has not really improved. Wade is a nice addition and he still has gas in the tank by the looks of it. Mirotic looked very inconsistent last year and looks even worse so far. Maybe McDermott will be a good contributor. But all in all I can see why fans would be hopeless because where is this team going other than mediocrity? I'm sure nobody was hoping for Rose to go and be replaced by Rondo ( and Wade). Mirotic has to step for this team because they need a good perimeter shooter, there are already two complete non-shooters among the starters in Rondo and Lopez. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Thursday Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 I can see why the Bucks traded for Snell. Even before Middleton went down their #1 need above all else was shooting, and without him they're pretty much in panic mode trying to find anyone who can shoot a three. Snell can do that, MCW can't. And with the plans to play Giannis as PG, that leaves MCW as surplus to requirements - Antetokounmpo is a much longer version of him with a higher ceiling. But I agree with Argonath in that I can't see the upside in this for the Bulls. They also really lack shooting, and are bringing in yet another poor shooter in the backcourt. I guess if they felt that Snell was surplus to requirements behind Wade and Butler they might have felt the offer constituted getting something for nothing? But I'm not sure MCW is much of a 'something' at this point, and he definitely doesn't seem like a good fit for this team. ST Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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