NBA 2016-2017 LeBron vs Durant ( and his little helpers)

[sperry]

Definitely interesting the way things have shaken out. I don't think anyone can make the argument that the Warriors are a better team than the were last year. They are still a legit contender, and probably the favorite, but the Durant move did not improve their team, and it made them less sustainable.

 

The funny thing is that the by far the biggest winner in this deal is Nike:  http://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/ua/stock-chart

 

Under Armour stock has lost half its value since the apex of Warriors hype when they were gunning for the wins record. You can't tell me that a huge chunk of that isn't due to Nike taking Under Armour's prized possession and stamping a giant swoosh on it.  Steph has gone from the face of the NBA to a very clear second banana on his own team.  Even if he is okay with that move, you have to think his corporate overlords at Nike are going to be telling him he needs to make a move. And the Lakers to go play for Luke Walton are the obvious move.

[David Selig]

35 minutes ago, sperry said:

Definitely interesting the way things have shaken out. I don't think anyone can make the argument that the Warriors are a better team than the were last year. They are still a legit contender, and probably the favorite, but the Durant move did not improve their team, and it made them less sustainable.

Why the hell not? Losing one game on a blown last second call away to their biggest rival doesn't change my mind. The Warriors dominated most of the game even though Curry sucked. Durant makes them much more dangerous in the playoffs and less reliant on Curry having a good shooting day. Their defense has been great after the first two weeks or so. Their average margin of victory is much higher than last season even adjusting for strength of schedule.

[Proudfeet]

I just want to put in that of the guys that the Warriors swapped for Durant, at least a couple are still injured, most notably Bogut. So regardless of whichever team would have been better, as long as Durant isn't injured, it will be a gain. Unless you are saying that in the hypothetical non-trade scenario, they would have avoided their injuries. 

[briantw]

5 hours ago, Calibandar said:

I don't see anyone stopping them in the West.

With Griffin's injury, the Clippers look like they could go down to a 4th seed position, Spurs will be 2nd seed.

By playoffs time, Griffin will be back in the team for quite a while and it could be a good clash with GSW, but there is also a chance they avoid them if they finish 3rd ( and thus play San Antonio in the semi finals).

I could see tough series for GS against either of these two but I think ultimately they are just a better team than LA, and the Spurs, while extremely well sorted, I don't know, I don't see them beat Golden State with Durant 4 times.

 

It'll be interesting to see if they actually have to face the Clippers or the Spurs in the playoffs.  They've gotten incredibly lucky with their playoff match-ups the past few years, almost always avoiding the teams that seemed best primed to beat them on paper, or facing teams that were dealing with major injuries.  The toughest team they've faced in the West was the Thunder last year, and they only won that thanks to an all-time great choke job by Durant on par with LeBron against the Mavs back in 2011.

[sperry]

22 minutes ago, David Selig said:

Why the hell not? Losing one game on a blown last second call away to their biggest rival doesn't change my mind. The Warriors dominated most of the game even though Curry sucked. Durant makes them much more dangerous in the playoffs and less reliant on Curry having a good shooting day. Their defense has been great after the first two weeks or so. Their average margin of victory is much higher than last season even adjusting for strength of schedule.

 

 

They've played an absolutely atrocious schedule.  They are batting about .500 against the teams that people think could realistically challenge them in the playoffs. It's really not possible to be better than they were last year, considering they were the best team in NBA history.

 

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

3 hours ago, Proudfeet said:

I just want to put in that of the guys that the Warriors swapped for Durant, at least a couple are still injured, most notably Bogut. So regardless of whichever team would have been better, as long as Durant isn't injured, it will be a gain. Unless you are saying that in the hypothetical non-trade scenario, they would have avoided their injuries. 

That's a good point. Bogut is far and away the most key piece of that, and his health has been pretty lousy for the past season and a half or so.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

3 hours ago, briantw said:

It'll be interesting to see if they actually have to face the Clippers or the Spurs in the playoffs.  They've gotten incredibly lucky with their playoff match-ups the past few years, almost always avoiding the teams that seemed best primed to beat them on paper, or facing teams that were dealing with major injuries.  The toughest team they've faced in the West was the Thunder last year, and they only won that thanks to an all-time great choke job by Durant on par with LeBron against the Mavs back in 2011.

As opposed to the Cavs who face a series of also rans in the playoffs that couldn't hope to sniff the Western Conference Finals. Say what you want about the Thunder, but that was a team that more or less boat-raced the Spurs out of the playoffs last season. So I don't think you can devalue that Warriors series win. Meanwhile, back in the Eastern Conference, it took the Cavs 6 games to beat a Raptors squad that you couldn't possibly compare to the Thunder or the Spurs.  

[briantw]

5 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

As opposed to the Cavs who face a series of also rans in the playoffs that couldn't hope to sniff the Western Conference Finals. Say what you want about the Thunder, but that was a team that more or less boat-raced the Spurs out of the playoffs last season. So I don't think you can devalue that Warriors series win. Meanwhile, back in the Eastern Conference, it took the Cavs 6 games to beat a Raptors squad that you couldn't possibly compare to the Thunder or the Spurs.  

Well, the Cavs won the Finals, so I doubt that six game series against the Raptors bothers them all that much.  It's damn near impossible to sweep through to the Finals anyway.  Teams get tired, or bored.  Remember how many times the Heat took seven games to banish teams vastly inferior to their own?  And the East was much weaker back then.

As far as Toronto goes, I find it hilarious how everyone talked up the Raptors and the Hawks (two years ago) all season and said they might be legitimate challengers to the Cavs.  Then, when the Cavs beat them, all you heard was about how they were never good to begin with.  

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

2 minutes ago, briantw said:

Well, the Cavs won the Finals, so I doubt that six game series against the Raptors bothers them all that much.  It's damn near impossible to sweep through to the Finals anyway.  Teams get tired, or bored.  Remember how many times the Heat took seven games to banish teams vastly inferior to their own?  And the East was much weaker back then.

As far as Toronto goes, I find it hilarious how everyone talked up the Raptors and the Hawks (two years ago) all season and said they might be legitimate challengers to the Cavs.  Then, when the Cavs beat them, all you heard was about how they were never good to begin with.  

But your repeated point has been that the Warriors have had a soft path to the Finals. That was certainly true the season before last, but if the Warriors path was soft last season, The Cavs path was a fucking velvet carpet. 

[briantw]

1 minute ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

But your repeated point has been that the Warriors have had a soft path to the Finals. That was certainly true the season before last, but if the Warriors path was soft last season, The Cavs path was a fucking velvet carpet. 

I'd say my point was more that the Warriors have only had to face one really good team and they should have lost that series.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

 Chinanu Onuaku channels Rick Barry for two successful free throws...

 http://deadspin.com/rockets-rookies-campaign-to-bring-back-granny-free-thro-1790509092?utm_source=fark&utm_medium=website&utm_content=link&ICID=ref_fark

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

I still don't think we should judge the Warriors by how they look now. I suspect they'll look a lot better towards the end of the season when everyone has fully gelled into their roles.

That said, Curry does look really off at the moment. I wonder if he's just in a funk or if their is actually an issue with him.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

2 hours ago, briantw said:

I'd say my point was more that the Warriors have only had to face one really good team and they should have lost that series.

Who have the Cavs had to play in the East since LeBron returned? Toronto is alright, but they're not comparable to the power teams the West has produced.

There's no way to actually answer this, but I suspect LeBron wouldn't have made it to six straight finals if he was playing in the West.

[Calibandar]

I think there's no question that the Cavs coast to the NBA finals, last year and this year.

It's the East, it only has one really great team. 

There are a number of really solid teams there this season though, who will not beat the Cavs, but will give them a good fight. Boston, Toronto. But they all lack the firepower to compete with LeBron, Irving and Kevin Love.

That doesn't really detract from the in itself valid point that the Warriors keep lucking out for the last two years in their western conference matchups, as we have discussed at length in the past two years.

 

[Michael Seswatha Jordan]

15 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Who have the Cavs had to play in the East since LeBron returned? Toronto is alright, but they're not comparable to the power teams the West has produced.

There's no way to actually answer this, but I suspect LeBron wouldn't have made it to six straight finals if he was playing in the West.

But, that's irrelevant. LeBron plays in The East. Durant couldve played in The east. Shoulda, woulda, coulda. Quit trying to downplay The Kings greatness.

[Relic]

1 hour ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

 Chinanu Onuaku channels Rick Barry for two successful free throws...

 http://deadspin.com/rockets-rookies-campaign-to-bring-back-granny-free-thro-1790509092?utm_source=fark&utm_medium=website&utm_content=link&ICID=ref_fark

ive been waiting my entire life to see that. and he went 2 for 2. excellent. 

[Slurktan]

1 hour ago, Calibandar said:

I think there's no question that the Cavs coast to the NBA finals, last year and this year.

It's the East, it only has one really great team. 

There are a number of really solid teams there this season though, who will not beat the Cavs, but will give them a good fight. Boston, Toronto. But they all lack the firepower to compete with LeBron, Irving and Kevin Love

Toronto doesn't lack firepower, their offense as of a few days ago was the most efficient offense in NBA history.  It's their defense that is the problem comparatively.  Interestingly enough in a seven game series I'd think the Raps would give the Warriors more trouble than they would give the Cavs.  The Cavs for whatever reason just play better against the Raps (by that i mean the non big 3).  It's weird.

[Guest]

I got to attend my first NBA game of the year last night with Toronto @ Portland.  Portland was without Lillard and put up a decent fight with Toronto ultimately pulling it out.  Then there was Terrence Ross with this dunk that y'all should see.  And for those without sound he's a Portland guy (same high school as Terrence Jones).

[briantw]

4 hours ago, Slurktan said:

Toronto doesn't lack firepower, their offense as of a few days ago was the most efficient offense in NBA history.  It's their defense that is the problem comparatively.  Interestingly enough in a seven game series I'd think the Raps would give the Warriors more trouble than they would give the Cavs.  The Cavs for whatever reason just play better against the Raps (by that i mean the non big 3).  It's weird.

Toronto's problem thus far seems to be that Lowry and Derozan don't perform as well in the playoffs.  Lowry especially has just been downright bad in the playoffs compared to his regular season play.  

[Slurktan]

1 hour ago, briantw said:

Toronto's problem thus far seems to be that Lowry and Derozan don't perform as well in the playoffs.  Lowry especially has just been downright bad in the playoffs compared to his regular season play.  

There is that too but Lowry played better as the playoffs went on mostly due to a lack of George Hill who shut him down utterly; whereas  DeRozans game is entirely reliant on the refs which means he won't be good vs Cleveland.

I just find the repeated "Oh Cleveland is going to coast" to the finals to be such bullshit.  Yes Cleveland will likely get there but that is because they are a really, really, good team who plays well when it counts.  If they take games off vs Toronto they won't be going to the finals because Toronto is also a really good team.