US Elections 2016: Why we can't have nice things

[Ice Queen]

13 minutes ago, Mlle. Zabzie said:

My mother hasn't voted for a Democrat since approximately 1984 (not a Reagan fan, tbh).  I am working really, really hard on her this year (Virginia, so it matters).  She has conceded that Trump is awful.  She told me last night that she was currently planning on writing in a candidate.  (She also thinks Gary Johnson is an idiot and hilariously said (remember she is 70) that "he reminds me of the guys I knew in college who were way more interested in drugs than class - like, he was probably someone's dealer in college, and besides he is an idiot beyond all idiots.")  She stated that she really didn't think she could bring herself to vote for a Clinton (something she has never done - she was a Perot supporter, but did say if she had to do it again she'd have voted for H.W.).  And she has reasons - not all or even most of them gleaned from Fox News.  So last night I said to her "look, one of Trump or Clinton will win.  There isn't a third choice.  I have two daughters, you have three daughters and three granddaughters.  If it has to be one of them, I would rather it be an admittedly flawed woman than a man who has shown again and again his contempt for women.  I wouldn't want my daughters to hear him for the next four years spewing bile about women, which he will do."  And she said she understood where I was coming from and she respected that decision.  But any hints on how to push her over the line?  In some sense a non-Trump vote for her is a win in Virginia (because she is otherwise a moderate, but a Republican voter by nature).  But I think she could get there - she's very close, but there is a certain pride bound up in hating the Clintons for 25 years.

That's a tough one. She might not ever get there. 

My mother refused to vote for Obama in '08 because he's black. At least she was up front about it, I guess. But then she heard him speak on election night and she's liked him ever since. She said he reminded her of JFK.

[Ice Queen]

1 minute ago, TheKitttenGuard said:

He mentioned Ben Roethlisberger. So really magnitudes worst.

Ben is a god second only to Sidney Crosby around here. 

That crowd would have mugged Tom Brady for autographs. 

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

12 minutes ago, Mlle. Zabzie said:

So how do I get her to affirmatively vote for Clinton?

Don't let those pinkos convince you not to vote for Hillary, Grams. 

[TheKitttenGuard]

20 minutes ago, Crazy Cat Lady in Training said:

Ben is a god second only to Sidney Crosby around here. 

That crowd would have mugged Tom Brady for autographs. 

Oh yes he is...

and has been accused on multiple times of sexual assault.

https://broadly.vice.com/en_us/article/ben-roethlisberger-quarterback-twice-accused-of-sexual-assault

 

[OldGimletEye]

8 minutes ago, Crazy Cat Lady in Training said:

That's a tough one. She might not ever get there. 

My mother refused to vote for Obama in '08 because he's black. At least she was up front about it, I guess. But then she heard him speak on election night and she's liked him ever since. She said he reminded her of JFK.

Yeah, I have family and friends too that are die hard Republicans.

I don't really try to convince them to vote for Hillary as I know it's probably futile.

What I usually do is check their nonsense. Which isn't hard, given the sorry intellectual state of the Republican Party and the fact most of them get their information from Fox News.

[Mlle. Zabzie]

3 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

Don't let those pinkos convince you not to vote for Hillary, Grams. 

LOL.  I'll leave out the "Grams."  She is "Gigi" by choice because Grandma, Nanny, etc., all sounded "too old."  She's also a pretty massive feminist in a very interesting way (her reason for voting actually has to do with hearing direct stories from her family about getting the right to vote, she missed most of the second wave, but bought into third wave enthusiastically).  She just really hates Hillary.  *Sigh*  BUT, the spectre of Putin might do the trick.

[Isalie]

Can someone explain the Hillary hate to me? I get that the right has hated the Clintons for a long while etc and right wing media and she used to be a lawyer. But what is it that people hate and why is there such a consensus among some that she is crooked? I've read these threads for years and I still don't get it.

[Guess who's back]

Just now, Mikael said:

Can someone explain the Hillary hate to me? I get that the right has hated the Clintons for a long while etc and right wing media and she used to be a lawyer. But what is it that people hate and why is there such a consensus among some that she is crooked? I've read these threads for years and I still don't get it.

The email thing, Benghazi, ISIS, the donations from 1%, Saudi etc. and the fact that she is not really able to connect to other human beings? 

Also things like this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DXDU48RHLU

[Ice Queen]

1 minute ago, Guess who's back said:

The email thing, Benghazi, ISIS, the donations from 1%, Saudi etc. and the fact that she is not really able to connect to other human beings? 

Also things like this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DXDU48RHLU

It goes back way before that. 

She's a highly educated, strong and intelligent WOMAN. Just like the hatred of Obama came from his skin color, the hatred of her comes from the fact that she didn't know her place as First Lady. 

[White Walker Texas Ranger]

5 minutes ago, Mikael said:

Can someone explain the Hillary hate to me? I get that the right has hated the Clintons for a long while etc and right wing media and she used to be a lawyer. But what is it that people hate and why is there such a consensus among some that she is crooked? I've read these threads for years and I still don't get it.

It's a weird phenomenon. I remeber 10 -15 years ago, when W was in office, that Larry the Cable guy used to have schtick that Hillary shouldn't be president. I mean no reasoning was given, but it was just given that she was corrupt, incompetent, weak, whatever. There was an ostensibly nonpolitical morning show that just mentioned offhand sometimes that Hillary Clinton is crooked or that she wasn't 'classy' compared to Laura Bush. I think that Conservatives have been using Hillary Clinton as shorthand for everything they didn't like about liberals since Clinton left office.

[StepStark]

1 hour ago, Gertrude said:

without reading any of StepStark's linked post yet, the very first paragraph raised a flag.

It's reminding me of a network ... oh, can't remember their name off the top of my head. Something something balanced. Something something you decide. You know the one.

 

1 hour ago, OnionAhaiReborn said:

There are a few more gems in there:

"What you are about to read (and see) below is a fully cited example of something we have discussed frequently, but withheld until today, so the oppositional forces cannot change strategies in their attempts to manipulate your mind."

"However, we present this with a disclaimer: the entities exposed will industriously work to change their approach from this day forth."

"You have probably seen the latest example of the media claiming a released presidential poll from NBC and The Wall Street Journal as an example of Hillary Clinton expanding to an 11 point lead in the weekend following the “controversial” leaked tape of Donald Trump."

I don't get it. Even if what they claim is true, you are just going to ignore all that because of some poorly written paragraphs??? Wording is more important than the fact that Hillary's close associate is behind the poll that was presented as "reliable" and "independent" all over the world???

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

5 minutes ago, Mikael said:

Can someone explain the Hillary hate to me? I get that the right has hated the Clintons for a long while etc and right wing media and she used to be a lawyer. But what is it that people hate and why is there such a consensus among some that she is crooked? I've read these threads for years and I still don't get it.

 I don't hate her or think she's crooked, but I'll throw in my 2 cents. I find her to be somewhat cold personality wise. I find it very hard to see sincerity or emotional honesty in her. She's not easily relatable for me. It's basically a likeability issue for me. I just don't like her very much. I would kind of compare her to Al Gore. Just kind of meh. 

[Ice Queen]

2 minutes ago, StepStark said:

 

I don't get it. Even if what they claim is true, you are just going to ignore all that because of some poorly written paragraphs??? Wording is more important than the fact that Hillary's close associate is behind the poll that was presented as "reliable" and "independent" all over the world???

Being able to construct a cogent and coherent written argument goes a long way to convincing people you've intelligently considered the topic at hand instead of putting no thought into it whatsoever.

[Commodore]

not that Trump isn't well deserving, but the left's newfound disgust for a sexual predator as president is amusing

[Ice Queen]

1 minute ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

 I don't hate her or think she's crooked, but I'll throw in my 2 cents. I find her to be somewhat cold personality wise. I find it very hard to see sincerity or emotional honesty in her. She's not easily relatable for me. It's basically a likeability issue for me. I just don't like her very much. I would kind of compare her to Al Gore. Just kind of meh. 

If I may.

It's the glass ceiling thing. Even in the private sector, women who are tough and driven are seen as bitches. It's an unfortunate fact that a woman needs to act that way in order to get ahead. She's surrounded by men in a sphere that's male dominated. 

That may be stereotypical, but that doesn't make it any less true. 

[kairparavel]

Have you seen the Gourd's latest Twitter tirade? His shackles are gone! Burn baby, burn.

[OldGimletEye]

1 minute ago, Commodore said:

not that Trump isn't well deserving, but the left's newfound disgust for a sexual predator as president is amusing

About as amusing as the right harping about "family values" all the time and then nominating Trump.

[OnionAhaiReborn]

2 minutes ago, StepStark said:

 

I don't get it. Even if what they claim is true, you are just going to ignore all that because of some poorly written paragraphs??? Wording is more important than the fact that Hillary's close associate is behind the poll that was presented as "reliable" and "independent" all over the world???

In addition to the poorly expressed and deranged paranoia, the claim is also stupid. Pollsters have political views, but reputable pollsters are still interested in getting the result right. This is a reputable pollster (538 gives them an A-). We went through this 4 years ago with Obama-Romney and the polls were accurate. 

[StepStark]

1 hour ago, Crazy Cat Lady in Training said:

US government employee here. 

Even if she deleted them from her computer or email, they're not really gone. Ever. They're permanently archived with multiple layers (eg, magnetic tape). Even if she managed to wipe out the hard drive (or take a sledgehammer to it), they still exist somewhere.

You don't seem to understand how this works.

So where are emails? Did the committee find them? Did the investigators find them? Has anybody checked them? I'm genuinely curious, because as I said I don't really have a dog in that race, but seeing how superficially many of you defend her, this more and more seems like an interesting issue.

1 hour ago, Crazy Cat Lady in Training said:

The issue isn't deleting emails. It's the classified stuff that was at issue. Was she careless? Probably. Criminal? No. And I don't think she had any nefarious intentions in mind when she did it. I think she did it in the interest of efficiency because that's just who she is.

Speaking of superficial defense. You think she's never ill-intended and you think she's all about efficiency. Good for you, but please understand if that doesn't mean much to the rest of the world.

[Ice Queen]

1 minute ago, Commodore said:

not that Trump isn't well deserving, but the left's newfound disgust for a sexual predator as president is amusing

Bill Clinton had an affair and lied about it. Since when are affairs considered sexually predatory?

The Dems paid for it in 2000. Al Gore couldn't quite get far enough away from it.