The caves are timeless: Hollow hills. Magic castles and Greenseers.

[Prof. Cecily]

11 hours ago, Wizz-The-Smith said:

Hi @Prof. Cecily and welcome to the forum. 

Thank you for your kind words as well, that means a lot, I'm really pleased you've enjoyed the thread.    I'm sure you'll have a great time here, so many threads and good posters to sink your teeth into.  Cheers Prof. Cecily    

I am indeed having a great time here- almost too great! I spend far too much time here, in the context of my 'real life'. Still, I'm sure this is simply a honeymoon phase and I'll become more reasonable about the amount of time I spend reading here.

Well, maybe. 

[Lost Melnibonean]

Quote

The last time he had seen her, just before they left port, her eyes had been raw from crying, two ghastly red holes in a wan, pale face.

Tyrion VIII,  Dance

Penny!

[Lost Melnibonean]

Penny!

Quote

The last time he had seen her, just before they left port, her eyes had been raw from crying, two ghastly red holes in a wan, pale face.

Tyrion VIII, Dance 33

[Wizz-The-Smith]

6 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Penny!

Quote

The last time he had seen her, just before they left port, her eyes had been raw from crying, two ghastly red holes in a wan, pale face.

Tyrion VIII, Dance 33

Hey LM 

That's interesting, what do you think it could mean/symbolise?  Penny has brown hair and pinkish cheeks normally so she's not an albino, do you think it could hint at the other woods witch's abilities in line with your thoughts up thread? 

Or is she actually resembling a weirwood tree at this moment and why?   Penny was described as weeping in the paragraph so I looked up weeping woman and Arya sees the statue of the Weeping woman of Lys next to the Lion of night [Tyrion?] in the HoBaW, but that feels more like a coincidence at this point.     What you thinking my friend?       

[Lost Melnibonean]

Wow, I never noticed that the singers have lived in the cave of the three-eyed crow for a million years. 

[Darry Man]

Thanks for starting this topic. I was directed here after writing about the parallels between Reek II and Jon V in ADWD.

It shows how both Moat Cailin and Mole's Town are symbolically linked, particularly with the part of them being analogues to subterranean caverns under weirwoods.

So, to add to all the other examples you have, you may want to include Moat Cailin. There is no weirwood tree there now, but given its associations with the children of the forest, there was likely one there before. The ruins indicate the symbolic destruction of a weirwood, and the black interior is definitely symbolic of a cave, complete with a smoldering fire and living-dead inhabitants.

I thought of a couple more examples when reading your post.

Abandoned holdfast near the God's Eye

• A tree set alight during Armory Lorch's storming of the walls
• A spear thrown at Yoren on the walls
• Arya, Gendry and others escaping through the tunnel

 

Great pyramid of Meereen:

• Man-made mountain
• dungeons
• dragons in the dungeons
• dragons chained to the walls of the dungeons
• Dany finding solace when visiting the dragons chained to the walls of the dungeons

 

[Wizz-The-Smith]

1 hour ago, Darry Man said:

Thanks for starting this topic. I was directed here after writing about the parallels between Reek II and Jon V in ADWD.

It shows how both Moat Cailin and Mole's Town are symbolically linked, particularly with the part of them being analogues to subterranean caverns under weirwoods.

So, to add to all the other examples you have, you may want to include Moat Cailin. There is no weirwood tree there now, but given its associations with the children of the forest, there was likely one there before. The ruins indicate the symbolic destruction of a weirwood, and the black interior is definitely symbolic of a cave, complete with a smoldering fire and living-dead inhabitants.

I thought of a couple more examples when reading your post.

Abandoned holdfast near the God's Eye

• A tree set alight during Armory Lorch's storming of the walls
• A spear thrown at Yoren on the walls
• Arya, Gendry and others escaping through the tunnel

Hi @Darry Man 

Thank you for reading and sharing your thoughts/ideas.  I love the parallels you've drawn from Reek II and Jon V in ADWD, and of course the subterranean evidence you've found at both Moat Cailin and Mole's Town are perfect for this topic.  And as you say, complete with living-dead inhabitants, good work.  @ravenous reader had a look at some of the other evidence to be found at Mole's Town earlier in the thread.  Here is the link, It is well worth a read. [The comments section is also worth a read]

Nice catch with the abandoned holdfast at the God's Eye, thanks for that.  In typical GRRM style there are bound to be more hidden or dotted around as @Crowfood's Daughter found in her excellent essay 'The Grey King fought Garth the Gardener' when discussing Hammerhorn Keep.  I think you've probably read it but I will link that here too for anyone who hasn't, it's a truly brilliant read.      

Regards the weirwood trees always being positioned above these hollow hills enabling the roots to form a potential throne or giving access to the weirnet, I've found this isn't always the case.  I have concentrated on the sites that do have this set up, but as Crowfood's Daughter has shown this doesn't seem to be a necessity.  I think it's the darkness and magic of the caves that is the main interest for those greenseers of the past building their castles/holdfasts above these hollow hills.  And this seems evident in Essos.....

3 hours ago, Darry Man said:

Great pyramid of Meereen:

• Man-made mountain
• dungeons
• dragons in the dungeons
• dragons chained to the walls of the dungeons
• Dany finding solace when visiting the dragons chained to the walls of the dungeons

Nice!!  A good example of what I'm talking about and one I hadn't looked at yet, again thanks for that.   

I have planned to study the subterranean in Essos for a while now but a forum hiatus put that on hold, this is just the sort of thing to look for.  A couple of other good examples are the House of Black and White and the island of Leng.  The former is built on a knoll [hill] with many underground levels and has parallels to BR's cave etc...  While Leng has the same ancient set up as Westeros, with the underworld only accessible via the abandoned ruins to be found throughout the jungle, very much like our First Men of Westeros building on the hollow hills.  This seems consistent and insinuates that the ancients of Planetos knew exactly what they were doing when building these structures with subterranean access.  Lorath [especially the Boashii religion] Norvos, and Andalos are of interest amongst quite a few others.

Thanks Darry Man, while on my forum hiatus I have still been lurking [the addiction is hard to kick] and I have enjoyed reading your thoughts.       

[Darry Man]

33 minutes ago, Wizz-The-Smith said:

Thanks Darry Man, while on my forum hiatus I have still been lurking [the addiction is hard to kick] and I have enjoyed reading your thoughts.       

No, thank you. This was interesting. Looking forward to seeing more.

[Lost Melnibonean]

From Small Questions...

WTF are blood blooms? 

Quote

Closer to the towers, corpses littered the ground on every side. Blood-blooms had sprouted from their gaping wounds, pale flowers with petals plump and moist as a woman's lips.

Reek II, Dance 20

...

On 3/2/2017 at 4:56 PM, Lost Melnibonean said:

WTF are blood blooms? 

Reek II, Dance 20

Gouts of congealed blood that look sort of like flowers in a really grim way?

ETA: Oh wait, pale flowers... Yes, wtf are they?

...

On 3/2/2017 at 4:56 PM, Lost Melnibonean said:

WTF are blood blooms? 

Reek II, Dance 20

https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Blood-bloom

That is creepy, right up there with the Weirwood stump drinking the blood of the man Ned executed.

...

On 3/2/2017 at 11:04 PM, Lord Wraith said:

https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Blood-bloom

That is creepy, right up there with the Weirwood stump drinking the blood of the man Ned executed.

Maybe, just maybe... Blood blooms are weirwoods?

...

On 3/3/2017 at 7:32 AM, Lost Melnibonean said:

Maybe, just maybe... Blood blooms are weirwoods?

Or have a connection certainly.

@Lord Wraith & @Therae

[Wizz-The-Smith]

On ‎24‎/‎04‎/‎2017 at 3:24 AM, Lost Melnibonean said:

Maybe, just maybe... Blood blooms are weirwoods?

Hey LM.  

That's an interesting observation, there is a flower in the real world called 'Blood flower' as seen here http://www.bhg.com/gardening/plant-dictionary/annual/blood-flower/  and many flowers that bloom red have some sort of blood symbolism attached to them through myth.  In New Zealand there is a flower called 'The Blood of Jesus flower' seen here http://static.snopes.com/app/uploads/2017/04/blood-of-jesus.jpg.  But I wouldn't say these are pale flowers, and of course none of these examples are seen to be growing from the wounds of the dead. 

The aboriginal Australians tell a myth where out of blood, flowers were created and these flowers do speak towards justice from a brutal massacre.  A young maiden named Purlimil fled her tribe as she refused to marry a particularly violent man from her tribe named Turlta.  In a fit of rage Turlta sought her out and found she had settled with a new tribe who loved her dearly.  So angry was Turlta that he killed them all, including Purlimil.  A year later he returned to the site only to find that there were no bones left just a field full of magnificent red flowers with black centres. [Again these are not pale flowers]  This mythic archetype of blood in connection with flowers is still seen today, most famously in the poem 'In Flanders Fields', a reminder of the devastation and loss of the soldiers in WW1.  So perhaps the Blood bloom flower is symbolic of the killing that took place there?  

Alternatively, flowers need nutrients to grow as well as water and those include nitrogen, potassium, iron etc... all of which can be found in blood.  You can actually get plant feed called 'Bud Blood' which has all these nutrients included in the product.  Less likely, but perhaps George is drawing on this fact? 

We have seen weirwood saplings in the series with no mention of Blood Blooms, but of course this is a fantasy novel involving trees that drink blood so perhaps you're right and these are the first shoots of weirwood trees.  I tend to prefer the symbolic angle to these arguments. 

Not sure if that helps really but worth a research.  Cheers LM.    

[foxberlin]

The theory about underground-kingdoms might work like a puzzle with some ideas I had. I’m really excited and so this will likely become a somewhat chaotic post. Sorry for that.

I always wondered what’s in there for Jaime with an enemy barely to defy with two hands and neat swords. As Ser Waymar Royce had to learn at the very begin of the series: not much. And Jaime had lost a hand and gave away his sword. I have a hard time picturing Jaime stomping through snow next to Brienne who fights both his and her battles during a Long (boring) Night. If their reunion is not intended as a butchery so only one POV survives, TWOW better comes up with new missions splitting Jaime and Brienne up again. So where would a swordless Jaime be save but important enough, so that Brienne can mind her own ways?

Many people see Jaime’s main purpose as valonqar to Cersei. A pitiful purpose… and kind of neglected by Jaime himself, when he has his talk with Ser Ilyn Payne about Cersei and Kettleback in AFFC:

“I don’t think it would be proper for me to slay mine own Sworn Brother. What I need to do is geld him and send him to the Wall. (...) It’s written down in the White Book. All of it, save what to do with Cersei.” Ser Ilyn drew a finger across his throat. “No,” said Jaime. “Tommen has lost a brother, and the man he thought of as his father. If I were to kill his mother, he would hate me for it... and that sweet little wife of his would find a way to turn that hatred to the benefit of Highgarden.”

Technically Jaime is capable to choke someone to death, as we read in his last chapter in ADWD: Jaime brought his hands together, the gold fingers inside the fleshy ones. Jaime isn’t capable to kill Cersei intentionally. Moreover AFFC described Jaime’s reinvention as Goldenhand the Just:

"Men shall name you Goldenhand from this day forth, my lord,” the armorer had assured him the first time he’d fitted it onto Jaime’s wrist. He was wrong. I shall be the Kingslayer till I die.

 (…) some outlaws had taken shelter in the root cellar beneath the second brother’s keep. One of them wore the ruins of a crimson cloak, but Jaime hanged him with the rest. It felt good. This was justice. Make a habit of it, Lannister, and one day men might call you Goldenhand after all. Goldenhand the Just.

In AFFC we also learn about a swordless hero through Brienne’s POV:

“Every place has its local heroes. Where I come from, the singers sing of Ser Galladon of Morne, the Perfect Knight.” “Ser Gallawho of What?” He snorted. “Never heard o’ him. Why was he so bloody perfect?” “Ser Galladon was a champion of such valor that the Maiden herself lost her heart to him. She gave him an enchanted sword as a token of her love. The Just Maid, it was called. No common sword could check her, nor any shield withstand her kiss. Ser Galladon bore the Just Maid proudly, but only thrice did he unsheathe her. He would not use the Maid against a mortal man, for she was so potent as to make any fight unfair.” Crabb thought that was hilarious. “The Perfect Knight? The Perfect Fool, he sounds like. What’s the point o’ having some magic sword if you don’t bloody well use it?” “Honor,” she said. “The point is honor.”

Jaime gave away his sword as a device of execution and took the King’s justice with him, when he left King’s Landing with Ser Ilyn Payne by his side. Jaime’s old antagonism to Ned Stark gets a new twist then:

“The blood of the First Men still flows in the veins of the Starks, and we hold to the belief that the man who passes the sentence should swing the sword.”

… a concept which was already flawed, when we read this in the first chapter of AGOT. What justice really is, is blurred even more since then. Jaime has now dislocated justice from authority. A modification like that would have prevented an unjustified execution like Ned’s. Jaime turned his back to the golden sword he killed the king with to become Goldenhand the Just. To take personal revenge on Cersei would be a step backwards in his development.

Other people think of Jaime as Azor Ahai reborn. I can’t see that coming, either. What would be the point of giving away his precious Stark-sword, just to forge another one and be still without a sword hand to wield it? It is Brienne who turned Oathkeeper into a magic sword:

What was she waiting for? Brienne told herself that she was being foolish. The sound was just the sea, echoing endlessly through the caverns beneath the castle, rising and falling with each wave. It did sound like whispering, though, and for a moment she could almost see the heads, sitting on their shelves and muttering to one another. “I should have used the sword” one of them was saying. “I should have used the magic sword.”“Podrick,” said Brienne. “There’s a sword and scabbard wrapped up in my bedroll. Bring them here to me.” “Yes, ser. My lady. I will.” The boy went running off. “A sword?” Nimble Dick scratched behind his ear. “You got a sword in your hand. What do you need another for?” “This one’s for you.” Brienne offered him the hilt. “For true?” Crabb reached out hesitantly, as if the blade might bite him. “The mistrustful maid’s giving old Dick a sword?”

The wording here mimics the way Brienne received her sword from Jaime, who, with the exception of the one time when he hit Ronnet Connington with his golden hand, is abstinent from fighting ever since… mainly because it deems his opponents an unjust fight now he has no sword hand. With Dick Brienne unsheathes Oathkeeper the first time and executes people. She kills three Bloody Mummers that represent murder, rape and mutilation and who only reappear after her story with Jaime is disjointed. After her first murder she considers Oathkeeper as a magic sword:

 “It was you killed the dog, m’lady,” she heard Gendry say, just before the darkness swallowed her again. Then she was back at the Whispers, standing amongst the ruins and facing Clarence Crabb. He was huge and fierce, mounted on an aurochs shaggier than he was. The beast pawed the ground in fury, tearing deep furrows in the earth. Crabb’s teeth had been filed into points. When Brienne went to draw her sword, she found her scabbard empty. “No,” she cried, as Ser Clarence charged. It wasn’t fair. She could not fight without her magic sword. Ser Jaime had given it to her. The thought of failing him as she had failed Lord Renly made her want to weep. “My sword. Please, I have to find my sword.” “The wench wants her sword back,” a voice declared. “And I want Cersei Lannister to suck my cock. So what?” “Jaime called it Oathkeeper. Please.” But the voices did not listen, and Clarence Crabb thundered down on her and swept off her head. Brienne spiraled down into a deeper darkness.

Brienne unsheathed Oathkeeper two times so far. In the legend Ser Galladon of Morne unsheathes the Just Maid trice. Brienne’s brother, sole heir to house Tarth, was named after that legendary knight.

The Hound is dead, and in any case he never had your Sansa Stark. As for this beast who wears his helm, he will be found and hanged. The wars are ending, and these outlaws cannot survive the peace. Randyll Tarly is hunting them from Maidenpool and Walder Frey from the Twins, and there is a new young lord in Darry, a pious man who will surely set his lands to rights. Go home, child. You have a home, which is more than many can say in these dark days. You have a noble father who must surely love you. Consider his grief if you should never return. Perhaps they will bring your sword and shield to him, after you have fallen. Perhaps he will even hang them in his hall and look on them with pride... but if you were to ask him, I know he would tell you that he would sooner have a living daughter than a shattered shield.” “A daughter.” Brienne’s eyes filled with tears. “He deserves that. A daughter who could sing to him and grace his hall and bear him grandsons. He deserves a son too, a strong and gallant son to bring honor to his name. Galladon drowned when I was four and he was eight, though, and Alysanne and Arianne died still in the cradle. I am the only child the gods let him keep. The freakish one, not fit to be a son or daughter.” All of it came pouring out of Brienne then, like black blood from a wound (…).

Brienne’s outbreak towards the Elder Brother defines her story arc as not being nurse to Catelyn Stark’s lost daughters or as repetition of Jaime’s conflicting Kingsguard vows. We learn about her real quest here. A tough one: to become a living legend. The brother with the legendary name is dead and the unloved daughter survived.

Brienne’s conflict with the Brotherhood without Banners promises to solve that problem with a simple kiss… of life. Then the daughter would be death enough, whereas the hero doesn’t die. The initial purpose of the brotherhood is a good one, it’s infrastructure and resources empowering the smallfolk. Brienne made the broken man Jaime remember his own good purpose, so she might be just what the BwB needed as well.

Those people that wait for her to become more grey, might be disappointed in the end. We’ve already seen all grey there is which is her own shade of violence: A self-inflicted wound is as violent as any other wound. Brienne’s self-destructive view of herself made readers believe her that she is bound to fail in everything she does, when all her tasks in truth are vehicles to end her loveless life as Maid of Tarth. Catelyn had to stop her, not to die in the attempt to storm Stannis’ camp, Jaime had to stop her, not to die in the attempt to free fake!Arya.

Jaime’s weirwood vision, and here I slowly come back on topic, reconciled Brienne with her conflicting aspects being almost a beauty and almost a knight. His green eyes closed, his head rested on another stump, that of a weirwood, Jaime did some green dreaming - not only to rescue Brienne but Bran too.

For if the OP’s theory of a deserted magical underground-kingdom is right, some thrones need to be seated. This is where I see Jaime, who shyed away from sitting a throne in earnest defining himself as kingmaker/kingunmaker and who was introduced by Jon as “this is how a king should look like” so early in the story. Joining Bran’s fate, safely away from sword/ survival fights in the cold and aviation attacks from dragons above, Jaime would be deeply involved in the moral consciousness of Westeros as it was, as it is, as it should be…

Let’s again look, how Bran nearly dies at the hand of Jaime.

(…) Bran was moving from gargoyle to gargoyle with the ease of long practice when he heard the voices. He was so startled he almost lost his grip. The First Keep had been empty all his life. “I do not like it,” a woman was saying. There was a row of windows beneath him, and the voice was drifting out of the last window on this side. “You should be the Hand.” “Gods forbid,” a man’s voice replied lazily. “It’s not an honor I’d want. There’s far too much work involved.” (…)“Lord Eddard has never taken any interest in anything that happened south of the Neck,” the woman said. “Never. I tell you, he means to move against us. Why else would he leave the seat of his power?” “A hundred reasons. Duty. Honor. He yearns to write his name large across the book of history, to get away from his wife, or both. (…) Bran’s fingers started to slip. He grabbed the ledge with his other hand. Fingernails dug into unyielding stone. The man reached down. “Take my hand,” he said. “Before you fall.” Bran seized his arm and held on tight with all his strength. The man yanked him up to the ledge. “What are you doing?” the woman demanded. The man ignored her. He was very strong. He stood Bran up on the sill. “How old are you, boy?” “Seven,” Bran said, shaking with relief. His fingers had dug deep gouges in the man’s forearm. He let go sheepishly. The man looked over at the woman. “The things I do for love,” he said with loathing. He gave Bran a shove.  

The whole time Bran knows he would be seen if he looks. Yet he looks to have something to tell his family, but loses his memory instead. It is Bran who releases the forearm which is shoving him.

I’m not ashamed of loving you, only of the things I’ve done to hide it. That boy at Winterfell...” , is what Jaime says to Cersei in ASOS, when he returns to King’s Landing with just one hand.

Bran’s fall triggered Jaime’s change into someone who is working harder one-handed, who leaves the seat of his power to write his name large across the book of history to get away from his “wife” in favor of duty and honor. Taking Jaime’s secret with him, Bran spares the lives of the supposedly not-so-royal family and puts Jaime in his debt. A knight without legs to ride a horse and a knight without sword hand to wield a sword, both seem even now… or complementary, if Bran’s fall was no fall but a joined sacrifice. The last thing Bran notices before letting go of Jaime is how very strong he is. Strong to do what? Sacrifices for love?

“He heard a whisper on the wind, a rustling amongst the leaves. You cannot speak to him, try as you might. I know. I have my own ghosts, Bran. A brother that I loved, a brother that I hated, a woman I desired. Through the trees, I see them still, but no word of mine has ever reached them. The past remains the past. We can learn from it, but we cannot change it.”, explains the Three-Eyed-Crow to Bran, who came to him in the hope to get his legs unbroken. Of course, no one can change the past. But everyone can change himself and inspire other people to become their best. So was it Bloodraven who made Bran fly to have him around? Or was it Bran who made himself fall to have Jaime around?

This is the place, where Bran is stuck now the last time we see him in ADWD:

The singers made Bran a throne of his own, like the one Lord Brynden sat, white weirwood flecked with red, dead branches woven through living roots. They placed it in the great cavern by the abyss, where the black air echoed to the sound of running water far below.

The setting resembles Jaime’s green dream a lot, where he is shoved down an abyss, landing on hands and knees in water, the only light the twin swords carried by him and Brienne.

Interestingly the practiced green dreamer Jojen is quitting his service without any return tickets: “The gods gave me only greendreams. My task was to get you here. My part in this is done.”

In the cavern Bran quickly loses sense of time. As it was not his wish to gain other gifts than walking, he struggles with his fate:

In the dark he could pretend that it was the three-eyed crow who whispered to him and not some grisly talking corpse. One day I will be like him. The thought filled Bran with dread. Bad enough that he was broken, with his useless legs. Was he doomed to lose the rest too, to spend all of his years with a weirwood growing in him and through him? Lord Brynden drew his life from the tree, Leaf told them. He did not eat, he did not drink. He slept, he dreamed, he watched. I was going to be a knight, Bran remembered. I used to run and climb and fight. It seemed a thousand years ago. What was he now? Only Bran the broken boy, Brandon of House Stark, prince of a lost kingdom, lord of a burned castle, heir to ruins. He had thought the three-eyed crow would be a sorcerer, a wise old wizard who could fix his legs, but that was some stupid child’s dream, he realized now. I am too old for such fancies, he told himself. A thousand eyes, a hundred skins, wisdom deep as the roots of ancient trees. That was as good as being a knight. Almost as good, anyway.

“What was he now?”, mirrors Jaime’s central question since ASOS. “A thousand eyes…” etcetera has become Bran’s mantra now. To be just, you have to be wise, to become wise you need evidence (thousand eyes) and empathy (hundred skins). It seems Bran has talents that would help Jaime become Goldenhand the Just. But as becoming wise, having a thousand eyes and a hundred skins is no substitute for the life Bran was denied, it would be unjust, if Bran had to stay in an environment ignorant to mankind in general and specifically towards a boy whose desire was to become a knight. A knight defends the weak, so long (s)he is stronger than the weakest. Two broken knights combining their strength might help Bran to “leaf” his “snowy lock”.

I hope some of you can see the potential for a Jaime-Bran reunion too and are willing to share their thoughts how this could happen via the weirwood system. As my post became rather long without even sharing my own draw, I better put that in a second post.

[foxberlin]

(I don't know why the last part is crossed out, but somehow the editor strikes so I can't change that...)

[Wizz-The-Smith]

On ‎26‎/‎04‎/‎2017 at 11:23 PM, foxberlin said:

The theory about underground-kingdoms might work like a puzzle with some ideas I had. I’m really excited and so this will likely become a somewhat chaotic post. Sorry for that.

Hi @foxberlin 

Don't be sorry, I'd love to hear any ideas you've got, especially if it involves the underworld/this topic.

On ‎26‎/‎04‎/‎2017 at 11:23 PM, foxberlin said:

I always wondered what’s in there for Jaime with an enemy barely to defy with two hands and neat swords. As Ser Waymar Royce had to learn at the very begin of the series: not much. And Jaime had lost a hand and gave away his sword. I have a hard time picturing Jaime stomping through snow next to Brienne who fights both his and her battles during a Long (boring) Night. If their reunion is not intended as a butchery so only one POV survives, TWOW better comes up with new missions splitting Jaime and Brienne up again. So where would a swordless Jaime be save but important enough, so that Brienne can mind her own ways?

I agree Jaime's arc would seem a little boring if he just followed Brienne around.  I think he may have a role to play in the Riverlands as the River Lords try and take back power, and then it's anyone's guess after that.  GRRM has proven time and time again that it's almost impossible to predict a characters future without a certain amount of foreshadowing, but I do think Jaime will have an important role to play moving forward.  As for the POV's being cut down in number, that is a worry, I hope they both get out of there okay.

On ‎26‎/‎04‎/‎2017 at 11:23 PM, foxberlin said:

Many people see Jaime’s main purpose as valonqar to Cersei. A pitiful purpose… and kind of neglected by Jaime himself, when he has his talk with Ser Ilyn Payne about Cersei and Kettleback in AFFC:

“I don’t think it would be proper for me to slay mine own Sworn Brother. What I need to do is geld him and send him to the Wall. (...) It’s written down in the White Book. All of it, save what to do with Cersei.” Ser Ilyn drew a finger across his throat. “No,” said Jaime. “Tommen has lost a brother, and the man he thought of as his father. If I were to kill his mother, he would hate me for it... and that sweet little wife of his would find a way to turn that hatred to the benefit of Highgarden.”

Technically Jaime is capable to choke someone to death, as we read in his last chapter in ADWD: Jaime brought his hands together, the gold fingers inside the fleshy ones. Jaime isn’t capable to kill Cersei intentionally. Moreover AFFC described Jaime’s reinvention as Goldenhand the Just:

I'm not sure anyone will ever call him Golden-hand the Just, but the fact he is thinking along these lines, and his ignoring of Cersei's letter, point to Jaime redeeming himself at some level.  So why not involving Bran?  Good thinking.  There are so many options as to who will fill the role of Cersei's valonqar that it's hard to call, I wouldn't mind if it was Jaime as I think it may signify his 'letting go' of their weird relationship once and for all. 

On ‎26‎/‎04‎/‎2017 at 11:23 PM, foxberlin said:

In AFFC we also learn about a swordless hero through Brienne’s POV:

“Every place has its local heroes. Where I come from, the singers sing of Ser Galladon of Morne, the Perfect Knight.” “Ser Gallawho of What?” He snorted. “Never heard o’ him. Why was he so bloody perfect?” “Ser Galladon was a champion of such valor that the Maiden herself lost her heart to him. She gave him an enchanted sword as a token of her love. The Just Maid, it was called. No common sword could check her, nor any shield withstand her kiss. Ser Galladon bore the Just Maid proudly, but only thrice did he unsheathe her. He would not use the Maid against a mortal man, for she was so potent as to make any fight unfair.” Crabb thought that was hilarious. “The Perfect Knight? The Perfect Fool, he sounds like. What’s the point o’ having some magic sword if you don’t bloody well use it?” “Honor,” she said. “The point is honor.”

What was she waiting for? Brienne told herself that she was being foolish. The sound was just the sea, echoing endlessly through the caverns beneath the castle, rising and falling with each wave. It did sound like whispering, though, and for a moment she could almost see the heads, sitting on their shelves and muttering to one another. “I should have used the sword” one of them was saying. “I should have used the magic sword.”“Podrick,” said Brienne. “There’s a sword and scabbard wrapped up in my bedroll. Bring them here to me.” “Yes, ser. My lady. I will.” The boy went running off. “A sword?” Nimble Dick scratched behind his ear. “You got a sword in your hand. What do you need another for?” “This one’s for you.” Brienne offered him the hilt. “For true?” Crabb reached out hesitantly, as if the blade might bite him. “The mistrustful maid’s giving old Dick a sword?”

I love this passage in the books, Dick Crabb is hilarious!!  I like that you've linked Golden-hand the Just and his reluctance to use a sword/fight with the tale involving the Just Maid and Ser Galladon of Morne's same reluctance. [Even if for slightly different reasons]  And yes, Brienne's 'magic' sword is sure to have a huge role to play moving forward, its origin and the name Oathkeeper certainly suggests so.

On ‎26‎/‎04‎/‎2017 at 11:23 PM, foxberlin said:

For if the OP’s theory of a deserted magical underground-kingdom is right, some thrones need to be seated. This is where I see Jaime, who shyed away from sitting a throne in earnest defining himself as kingmaker/kingunmaker and who was introduced by Jon as “this is how a king should look like” so early in the story. Joining Bran’s fate, safely away from sword/ survival fights in the cold and aviation attacks from dragons above, Jaime would be deeply involved in the moral consciousness of Westeros as it was, as it is, as it should be…

I must admit that when documenting the potential for all these subterranean thrones I was looking at the histories, and how the First Men were obviously aware of this magic and attempted to fortify they're 'greenseer caves'.  I had not considered some of these potential thrones being sat by our other heroes of the current narrative, I like your thinking Foxberlin!!  Jaime is of course a good candidate for such an outcome having already been contacted or had green dreams as you suggest, and like Theon the fact they can be contacted at all may point towards their magic progeny of the past coming into play.  Although I am opened minded about such things, I'm still of the opinion that one would need to be a fully fledged greenseer to sit said throne effectively and wield such powers as we see Bran and Bloodraven do in the darkness of the caves.   

On ‎26‎/‎04‎/‎2017 at 11:23 PM, foxberlin said:

The singers made Bran a throne of his own, like the one Lord Brynden sat, white weirwood flecked with red, dead branches woven through living roots. They placed it in the great cavern by the abyss, where the black air echoed to the sound of running water far below.

The setting resembles Jaime’s green dream a lot, where he is shoved down an abyss, landing on hands and knees in water, the only light the twin swords carried by him and Brienne.

All the subterranean evidence below the castles show various similarities to BR's cave, ponds, rivers, tunnels, vaults etc... but now you mention it Jaime's dream is definitely the most vivid of them all, good call. 

On ‎26‎/‎04‎/‎2017 at 11:23 PM, foxberlin said:

I hope some of you can see the potential for a Jaime-Bran reunion too and are willing to share their thoughts how this could happen via the weirwood system. As my post became rather long without even sharing my own draw, I better put that in a second post.

I've not thought that particular angle through much but I can certainly see the logic in what you are proposing, and I'm all for hearing new ideas/theories, especially anything to do with my OP.  And of course Jaime and Bran too.

Thanks for an interesting read @foxberlin