briantw Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 25 minutes ago, Crazy Cat Lady in Training said: I'm depressed for even thinking it. I don't hate men by any stretch, but my opinion of them keeps getting lower and lower throughout this whole election. If men don't step in and say "no, this is wrong", then they silently agree with it. Whether they'd admit it or not is another story. I honestly don't see how anyone could support Trump at this point. The sad part is that Hillary really isn't much better. She's certainly the lesser of two evils here, but the lesser of two evils is still evil. It really is a shame the DNC fucked over Bernie Sanders, because it would have been great to have a president who actually does things because he wants to serve the people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Queen Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 7 minutes ago, OldGimletEye said: I'm a white male. And I find distressing that so many other white men support Trump. It's not good. And I'm not happy about it. I support both women's political and economic equality. But, one kind of feminism I will not support is white nationalist feminism. The problem here is that some of the women that are now appalled by Trump's statements about women weren't too distressed when Trump did things like threatening Mexico to pay for a wall it obviously did not want. Or didn't have a problem with suggesting that the US military be used to take the resources of foreign people's. Or Trump's statements that he'd order torture. Evidently, that was good to go. I agree that white men's behavior here is bad. Very bad. But, their conduct here isn't the only thing that raises an eyebrow. Trump's been polling low among women for the entire election. I don't see how you can say that we weren't too distressed about the Wall and all the other stupid stuff he's said and done. We were and are. That's why we're not voting for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGimletEye Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 Just now, Crazy Cat Lady in Training said: Trump's been polling low among women for the entire election. I don't see how you can say that we weren't too distressed about the Wall and all the other stupid stuff he's said and done. We were and are. That's why we're not voting for him. No, of course, I acknowledge that Trump has always been polling low among women generally, thank god. But, among some white women, and ones that leaned Republican generally, Trump's behavior wasn't a problem, until now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arch-MaesterPhilip Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 Just now, OldGimletEye said: No, of course, I acknowledge that Trump has always been polling low among women generally, thank god. But, among some white women, and ones that leaned Republican generally, Trump's behavior wasn't a problem, until now. It's still not amongst I know. Some seem to be doubling down, it's absolutely insane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ariadne23 Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 28 minutes ago, Kalbear said: The NYTimes tells Trump to bring it, dumbass, then drops the mic. Haven't seen things this hot since Beyonce. That is some damn fine lawyering right there. 11 minutes ago, OldGimletEye said: But, one kind of feminism I will not support is white nationalist feminism. The problem here is that some of the women that are now appalled by Trump's statements about women weren't too distressed when Trump did things like threatening Mexico to pay for a wall it obviously did not want. Or didn't have a problem with suggesting that the US military be used to take the resources of foreign people's. Or Trump's statements that he'd order torture. Evidently, that was good to go. To say nothing of the fact that Jill Harth's claims of sexual assault are old news. If you said "some Republican women," or especially "female conservative pundits and/or politicians" instead of "some women," I would not have a problem with this statement. I guess it was one of those "he's coming for someone else" things until they heard him talk about all women that way in his own voice. But to say "some women"...women are - in numerical fact - the people saving all our asses here. Have been the whole time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGimletEye Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 4 minutes ago, Ariadne23 said: That is some damn fine lawyering right there. To say nothing of the fact that Jill Harth's claims of sexual assault are old news. If you said "some Republican women," or especially "female conservative pundits and/or politicians" instead of "some women," I would not have a problem with this statement. I guess it was one of those "he's coming for someone else" things until they heard him talk about all women that way in his own voice. But to say "some women"...women are - in numerical fact - the people saving all our asses here. Have been the whole time. That is mainly what I meant. And I agree that women are saving us from going down into stupidity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 This election is turning into the ending of The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo series, where the entire story is essentially about how rapists and sexual abusers attempted to destroy a woman's life and she gets to destroy them all back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aceluby Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 26 minutes ago, briantw said: I honestly don't see how anyone could support Trump at this point. The sad part is that Hillary really isn't much better. She's certainly the lesser of two evils here, but the lesser of two evils is still evil. It really is a shame the DNC fucked over Bernie Sanders, because it would have been great to have a president who actually does things because he wants to serve the people. She is head and shoulders better in basically every single way. To say 'she isn't much better' is completely dishonest and ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alguien Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 22 minutes ago, briantw said: I honestly don't see how anyone could support Trump at this point. The sad part is that Hillary really isn't much better. She's certainly the lesser of two evils here, but the lesser of two evils is still evil. It really is a shame the DNC fucked over Bernie Sanders, because it would have been great to have a president who actually does things because he wants to serve the people. She is. She really, really is. Like, by every metric possible. Qualifications. Experience. Temperament. Legislative record. Policy goals. Stated positions. This belief that she's the lesser of two evils does a disservice to the very real equality she's fought for, for women, minorities, impoverished families, and the LGBTQ community. I'd vote for a democrat based on the Supreme Court alone. I'm pumped we'll likely get a woman president. I'm pumped we're getting one that's so experienced. I'm relieved we're getting someone who's tough (even by Trumpsterfire's own admission) and knows how to play the game. While I admire Sanders and would have happily voted for him in the general, it's baffling to me that people think he and Clinton were opposites. They're different shades of blue, certainly, but to call her the lesser of two evils, if you really support what Sanders stood for, is flat out wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briantw Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 Just now, aceluby said: She is head and shoulders better in basically every single way. To say 'she isn't much better' is completely dishonest and ridiculous. Eh...her husband, who has been beside her the entire campaign, has a long and disgusting history of sexual assault and harassment. Hillary herself has been at the center of numerous scandals as well, and went out of her way to discredit and destroy the women who accused her husband in the past. I think painting her as anything other than a pretty terrible human being is dishonest at this point. Is she better than Trump? Sure. But I think it's closer than some people would like to pretend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerPaladin Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 I'm interested to see some credible post-Billy-Bush polls that parse out women (in a few days, so that it's fully baked). The Repulican women I know are doubling down in support of him: - Handful taking the "why are people worried about Trump's dirty words, shades of Gray comparison - One outlier with no defense of the latest stuff, but a post that blacks will be voting Trump in record numbers, with an accompanying picture of a woman carrying a "Delete Hillary" banner. - A few others taking the "locker room" excuse as good enough. My daughter switching from "don't care" to "No Trump" s the only change I've seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ariadne23 Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 Hillary's not, to my knowledge, suffering from the clearest public example of a personality disorder in living memory, an unwitting agent of a hostile foreign government, currently blowing her own party the fuck up over a perceived narcissistic injury committed by respected party officials, encouraging people to beat people up at her rallies, suggesting that her opponent be jailed or shot, or bragging about how she gets to grab people by the genitals whenever she wants because she's a famous god-creature among lesser mortals. We could go on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 3 minutes ago, briantw said: Eh...her husband, who has been beside her the entire campaign, has a long and disgusting history of sexual assault and harassment. Hillary herself has been at the center of numerous scandals as well, and went out of her way to discredit and destroy the women who accused her husband in the past. I think painting her as anything other than a pretty terrible human being is dishonest at this point. Is she better than Trump? Sure. But I think it's closer than some people would like to pretend. Okay, let's take out the husband part, since he's not being voted for. Clinton has been at the center of numerous scandals...and they've been shown to largely be without merit. She did go out of her way to discredit many of the women who accused her husband, and for the most part that was actually correct and they were found to literally be lying about it. There are problems too, and there is at least one case that I have issues with - but the notion that she is a 'pretty terrible human being' because she got angry at some of her husband's accusers and use that as a moral equivalence against actually sexually assaulting and raping people is really absurd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kairparavel Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 Whenever I see the notion that HRC isn't that from off from Trump, what I'm getting is 'HRC doesn't meet what my standard of a woman in politics should be.' or to quote Aaron Burr : 'Talk less. Smile more. Never let them know what you're against or what you're for..unless it meets exactly everything they want.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swordfish Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 5 minutes ago, Kalbear said: Okay, let's take out the husband part, since he's not being voted for. Why? If you take out the husband part, then do you not also need to 'take out' her experience as first lady? After all, we didn't vote for her in the 90's, right? Voting for HIlary puts, if you believe it to be true, a sexual predator in the white house. Why should we ignore that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGimletEye Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 11 minutes ago, aceluby said: She is head and shoulders better in basically every single way. To say 'she isn't much better' is completely dishonest and ridiculous. Agree. I have little patience for the good old "they are both equally bad" argument. Even leaving aside the race and gender issues that Trump's candidacy brings, she is simply a more competent policy maker. It's not even close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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