Clegane'sPup Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 Pro Dany forces inside the walls of Meereen are the Unsullied, and Barristan. Anti Dany forces are Sons of the Harpy. I’m not sure how the Brazen Breasts side. Outside Meereen are the Yunkai. They are spreading the bloody flux. In the harbor are anti Dany ships of Qarth, Tolos and New Ghis. I’ve got three sellsword companies hanging around; the Second Sons, the Windblown and Storms Crows. Are they anti or pro Dany? The ships from Volantis have not shown up yet. They are supposed to be anti Dany. Vic and the Ironborn fleet are pro Dany. Did I miss anyone? The reason I ask is that this story line has not been one of my favorite and I have sorta not paid a lot of attention. My question is how does this battle play out? It has to come to some end before Dany can go to Westeros? Dany as of the end of DwD is out in the wilderness with Drogon and being confronted by a Khal who doesn’t much like her. How does Martin wrap this up? It boggles my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coolbeard the Exile Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 1. Brazen Beasts Eight thousand six hundred trained Unsullied[2] Five thousand Unsullied-in-training[2] Sellsword companies: Five hundred Stormcrows[3] Two thousand Windblown[4] (defects to Meereen during the Battle of Slaver's Bay) Five hundred fourteen Second Sons[5] (defects to Yunkai during after the Fall of Astpor; defects back to Meereen during the Battle of Slaver's Bay) Freedmen companies: Mother's Men Stalwart Shields Free Brothers Dragons Viserion Rhaegal ~Two hundred hundred pit fighters[6] twenty Dothraki warriors[1] 2. Slave soldiers (at least thirteen commanders with each "20 or 200 or 2000" slave soldiers) Allies: New Ghis Six legions of six thousand men each[6] 100 armored and towered war elephants 3 war galleys Qarth Qartheen fleet Qartheen camel corps Tolos Tolosi slingers Elyria 300 crossbowmen Mantarys Volantis Meereenese ships Sellsword companies: Three thousand men from the Company of the Cat[7] Eight hundred Long Lances[7] Five hundred fourteen Second Sons[5] (defects to Yunkai during after the Fall of Astpor; defects back to Meereen during the Battle of Slaver's Bay) two thousand Windblown[4] (defects to Meereen during the Battle of Slaver's Bay) 3. The Iron Fleet (forty-four of the original ninety-three galleys) Seventeen captured ships Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clegane'sPup Posted October 13, 2016 Author Share Posted October 13, 2016 4 hours ago, Knight of valour said: snip That is a bunch of info to take in. Is Barristan going to get the Meereen situation under control? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coolbeard the Exile Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 He will certainly win! All in all Barristans forces are around 30,000 strong and the Slaver alliance are around 40,000 strong. The diffrence is that Barristans forces are much better in quality. He has 13,600 Unsulied who are the most elite infantry force in the world and they will never break or defy orders no matter what. 3000 Sellswords many of them are cavalry and they are amongst the slavers so they will be able to catch them completely by suprise. He also has 200 shock pit fighters and 8000 freedmen who arent that good. He also has many thousand Ironborn helping them and the ironborn are the meanest and fiercest fighters in the entire world. The sellsword companies The Windblown and the Second Sons have defected to Mereen and they are amongst the slavers forces and that is a huge factor as they are the slavers best troops. The New Ghist legionaires are also noted as being a shit scared undiceplined pile of crap. Barristans forces has the element of suprise and the Slaver generals are noted as being particularly retarded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 7 minutes ago, Knight of valour said: He will certainly win! All in all Barristans forces are around 30,000 strong and the Slaver alliance are around 40,000 strong. The diffrence is that Barristans forces are much better in quality. He has 13,600 Unsulied who are the most elite infantry force in the world and they will never break or defy orders no matter what. 3000 Sellswords many of them are cavalry and they are amongst the slavers so they will be able to catch them completely by suprise. He also has 200 shock pit fighters and 8000 freedmen who arent that good. He also has many thousand Ironborn helping them and the ironborn are the meanest and fiercest fighters in the entire world. The sellsword companies The Windblown and the Second Sons have defected to Mereen and they are amongst the slavers forces and that is a huge factor as they are the slavers best troops. The New Ghist legionaires are also noted as being a shit scared undiceplined pile of crap. Barristans forces has the element of suprise and the Slaver generals are noted as being particularly retarded. The Slaver forces are likely to be more than 40,000. Six legions is 36,000, and then you must factor in the slave soldiers of Yunkai, and the other contingents. I would say that 60,000 - 70,000 is a likelier figure. There have been losses to disease, but we should assume that disease has also hit the defenders as well. The legions of New Ghis are also reckoned to be of high fighting quality. But I would expect Barristan to win the battle. He can hit the Slavers hard at any one point, and the unexpected arrival of the Ironborn, and the sellswords switching sides should shift the balance in his favour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coolbeard the Exile Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 Nope Yunkai + allies should have around 40,000 soldiers. 36,000 new ghis legionaires Quartheen Camel Corps 100 elephants Tolosi slingers 300 Elyrian crossbowmen 800 Long lances Mantarys 36,000 + 100 + 300 + 800 + 1500 Quartheen Camel Corps?? + 1500 Tolosi slingers??? + 1500 Montarys = 42,000 Definatly not over 45,000 soldiers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aryagonnakill#2 Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 18 minutes ago, Knight of valour said: He will certainly win! All in all Barristans forces are around 30,000 strong and the Slaver alliance are around 40,000 strong. The diffrence is that Barristans forces are much better in quality. He has 13,600 Unsulied who are the most elite infantry force in the world and they will never break or defy orders no matter what. 3000 Sellswords many of them are cavalry and they are amongst the slavers so they will be able to catch them completely by suprise. He also has 200 shock pit fighters and 8000 freedmen who arent that good. He also has many thousand Ironborn helping them and the ironborn are the meanest and fiercest fighters in the entire world. The sellsword companies The Windblown and the Second Sons have defected to Mereen and they are amongst the slavers forces and that is a huge factor as they are the slavers best troops. The New Ghist legionaires are also noted as being a shit scared undiceplined pile of crap. Barristans forces has the element of suprise and the Slaver generals are noted as being particularly retarded. The Legions of New Ghis are supposed to be legit free trained men, its the slave soldiers from Yunkai that are ridiculous, particularly the ones chained together, or waring stilts. 6 minutes ago, SeanF said: The Slaver forces are likely to be more than 40,000. Six legions is 36,000, and then you must factor in the slave soldiers of Yunkai, and the other contingents. I would say that 60,000 - 70,000 is a likelier figure. There have been losses to disease, but we should assume that disease has also hit the defenders as well. The legions of New Ghis are also reckoned to be of high fighting quality. But I would expect Barristan to win the battle. He can hit the Slavers hard at any one point, and the unexpected arrival of the Ironborn, and the sellswords switching sides should shift the balance in his favour. I agree, the situation is a little more in Barristans favor as well because 2 of the Ghiscari legions are across the river and cannot take part in the battle, so thats 12k less men. 22 hours ago, Clegane'sPup said: Pro Dany forces inside the walls of Meereen are the Unsullied, and Barristan. Anti Dany forces are Sons of the Harpy. I’m not sure how the Brazen Breasts side. Outside Meereen are the Yunkai. They are spreading the bloody flux. In the harbor are anti Dany ships of Qarth, Tolos and New Ghis. I’ve got three sellsword companies hanging around; the Second Sons, the Windblown and Storms Crows. Are they anti or pro Dany? The ships from Volantis have not shown up yet. They are supposed to be anti Dany. Vic and the Ironborn fleet are pro Dany. Did I miss anyone? The reason I ask is that this story line has not been one of my favorite and I have sorta not paid a lot of attention. My question is how does this battle play out? It has to come to some end before Dany can go to Westeros? Dany as of the end of DwD is out in the wilderness with Drogon and being confronted by a Khal who doesn’t much like her. How does Martin wrap this up? It boggles my mind. I think the battle will definitely go Barristans way, and the real question is the aftermath. Will the Shavepate have his Brazen Beasts take the city and bar the gates? What happens with Rhaegal when the horn gets blown? Does Barristan survive? That is much harder to answer imo. If Barristan makes it and Dany returns with her Dothraki there could be another problem Spoiler Barristan is riding her horse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curled Finger Posted October 15, 2016 Share Posted October 15, 2016 I'm not convinced Dany's forces will win at all. Yes, I agree with all above speculating Barristan's more well trained and organized forces (there do seem to be a lot of peacocks among the sell swords and the irony of slave and freed slave armies going up against a liberator). Dany's entire story is rife with betrayal and really bad luck. Still Barristan is loyal to the bone and there is major support outside the gates. Oh I have no doubt Dany and maybe even all 3 dragons will get out of this pickle, but unless she is unable to harness the power of her dragons, I don't see this ending well at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minstral Posted October 15, 2016 Share Posted October 15, 2016 17 hours ago, Knight of valour said: He will certainly win! All in all Barristans forces are around 30,000 strong and the Slaver alliance are around 40,000 strong. The diffrence is that Barristans forces are much better in quality. He has 13,600 Unsulied who are the most elite infantry force in the world and they will never break or defy orders no matter what. 3000 Sellswords many of them are cavalry and they are amongst the slavers so they will be able to catch them completely by suprise. He also has 200 shock pit fighters and 8000 freedmen who arent that good. He also has many thousand Ironborn helping them and the ironborn are the meanest and fiercest fighters in the entire world. The sellsword companies The Windblown and the Second Sons have defected to Mereen and they are amongst the slavers forces and that is a huge factor as they are the slavers best troops. The New Ghist legionaires are also noted as being a shit scared undiceplined pile of crap. Barristans forces has the element of suprise and the Slaver generals are noted as being particularly retarded. The highlighted part is actually untrue. Tyrion mentions that they are equipped as the Unsullied and trained in their fashion, but that all citizens serve a mandatory 3 year service whereas the eunuchs know only their life as soldiers. This actually suggests the opposite of a pile of crap, rather it suggests that New Ghis has population that knows how to fight and a leadership well versed in military doctrine, and the institutions and know how to train and equip these soldiers. It is just in comparison to the Unsullied they fall a bit flat in terms of discipline. In fact it should be New Ghis dictating the siege of Meereen, not the Great Masters that have the distinguishing trait of being able to march their own slave soldiers out into the sea. Spoiler Moreover, GRRM has done reading of the battle from both Tyrion's and Barristan's POV, and it shows that the forces that are holding the line in a battle turning against them, where mercenaries and slave soldiers are failing, is the New Ghis infantry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywater-Watch Posted October 15, 2016 Share Posted October 15, 2016 Maybe it is too simple to reduce the battle to two opposing forces only. The Mereen Forces are politically fragile, especially during Daenerys' absence. We may end up with three fractions opposing each other. Barristan Selmy has already struggled to get the Skahaz Mo Kandaq (probably still the true leader of the Brazen Beasts) on his political line. Brown Benn Plum is about to turn his cloak again, but who of those holding Mereen will accept him again back in their lines, who will oppose? The same is true for the Ironborn. Maybe these two "new" possible allies and possibly others from the siege wishing to join the Mereen Forces will result in dividing the Mereen Forces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coolbeard the Exile Posted October 15, 2016 Share Posted October 15, 2016 In Quentyn and Tyrions chapter i remeber reading that everything was unorganized and filthy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minstral Posted October 15, 2016 Share Posted October 15, 2016 22 minutes ago, Knight of valour said: In Quentyn and Tyrions chapter i remeber reading that everything was unorganized and filthy New Ghis is an Island city and would bring their legions by ship as a result. The forces that Quentyn marched with were the sellsword companies and the Great Masters of Yunkai with their menagerie of slave soldiers. It was those soldiers that The Windblown were dismissing, and with good reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lointain Posted October 15, 2016 Share Posted October 15, 2016 If the legions of New Ghis are similar to the ones of Old Ghis, they must be a great ally to have at our side, and a frightning enemy to have against us. Remember that the training and the tactics of the Unsullied (minus the torturous brainwashing and mutilation sufered by the slaves, of course) is a copy of the methods used by the heavy infantry of the Ghiscari Empire, in the days before Valyria. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runaway Penguin Posted October 15, 2016 Share Posted October 15, 2016 By definition Ghiscari legionnaires will be stronger than the Unsullied (physically) and well trained (three year mandatory service is already enough to get very competent force). they may not be as fearless as the brainwashed Unsullied, but fear keeps you alive If they have any say inb tactical disposition, they will keep together and use the Yunkai menagerie as arrow fodder. though with desertion of some of the Free Companies they will probably lack cavalry, so would be hard pressed to dictate the flow of battle. Note that while the besiegers seem to have enough heavy weapons, they are employed in AA defences, so may not be readily available in the battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clegane'sPup Posted October 16, 2016 Author Share Posted October 16, 2016 On 10/14/2016 at 0:21 PM, aryagonnakill#2 said: I think the battle will definitely go Barristans way, and the real question is the aftermath. Will the Shavepate have his Brazen Beasts take the city and bar the gates? What happens with Rhaegal when the horn gets blown? Does Barristan survive? That is much harder to answer imo. If Barristan makes it and Dany returns with her Dothraki there could be another problem Hide contents Barristan is riding her horse. Good questions. I wish I was knowledgeable enough to give a reply. You caught me off guard with the horse remark. That was a good one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowen Marsh Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 Meereen is actually my favorite story line because of the politics, terrorism, intrigue, Barristan, Dany, Tyrion, and ofcourse, the dragons. The ruling class in Volantis is pro-slavery. But as Tyrion observed, the slaves actually run the city. The slaves can take over any time. All they need is a word of support from the Mhysa and they can take the city. Those slaves will side with Dany. The Dothraki follow the strong. Riding a dragon is the most dramatic demonstration of power there is. She will win their allegiance. Mercenaries. A lot of the mercenaries are companies of freedmen who owe their freedom to Dany. Such as the Mother's Men. They will side with her. The Ironborn have nothing to gain from siding with the slave masters. They will side with Dany. I expect some kind of deal would be made between Dany and Victarion, giving him dominion over the Iron Islands in exchange for passage. The Unsullied are loyal to Dany. It's just a matter of time before the slaves across Essos turn on their masters. The Brazen Beast are loyal to Dany. Skahaz basically threw in his lot with Dany. His power comes from her. Drinkwater and Yronwood have nothing to gain in siding with the Harpy. They are loyal to Dany and have already pledged their swords. Slavery is just one of those evils that will need to be dealt with before Daenerys can return to Westeros to reclaim her kingdom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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