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If jon Snow is actually a bastard


Stormking902

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37 minutes ago, Stormking902 said:

Would he still be a runner for the IT? Would he even consider taking it giving his morals and all?

No Jon is not a runner for that ugly ass, cursed, stupid POS of a throne. Nor would he take it, it doesn't belong to him and I bet he wouldn't want it. 

Jon being a bastard is okay, there is nothing wrong with that. Jon made peace with that a long time ago(that's why I somewhat dread the Rhaegar and Lyanna reveal because that means that we will revisit all this identity arc)

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I find the people who think Jon is rhaegar's bastard sound insane to me that would make no sense for the story

anyway the simple answer is yes Jon would take the throne even if he didn't want it,  after all Jon didn't want to be lord commander of the nights watch but he did it anyway. he won't likely want to be KITN when the time comes but he will not turn that down either.

this is what Jon's character is about, he getting responsibility thrust upon him and he shoulders the wight.    

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5 minutes ago, Dex drako said:

I find the people who think Jon is rhaegar's bastard insane that would make no sense for the story

 

Imo insane would be to write a good excuse for the realm to accept jon as legitmate...

- there's no credible way to prove legitimacy, aside one presently irrelevant guy's word or a storyline cop out of epic proportions if r+l (like a sky hologram via bran)

- rhaegar was already married and the faith does not accept poligamy, nor is it viewed by the lords with good eyes

- i expect better from grrm, he's really good

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I believe Jon's bastardness (is that a word?) would keep him behind other legitimate Targaryen's in line to the IT, but if you're a Targaryen supporter, and something happens to Dany and/or Aegon, Jon would be an excellent consolation prize. 

I don't think he would want the IT, but that doesn't mean that he wouldn't take it if was thrust upon him. 

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First you assume that the Targ line will matter in the end and secondly that Jon himself will claim the throne. My guess is that after LN2.0 the one who lead the humanity to victory, Jon, will be the one who will have the burden of rebuilding Westeros and no one will care if he is trueborn or not. His parents will be just an excuse just like how Rhaelle was an excuse when Robert took the Throne

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2 hours ago, Laughing Storm Reborn said:

Imo insane would be to write a good excuse for the realm to accept jon as legitmate...

- there's no credible way to prove legitimacy, aside one presently irrelevant guy's word or a storyline cop out of epic proportions if r+l (like a sky hologram via bran)

- rhaegar was already married and the faith does not accept poligamy, nor is it viewed by the lords with good eyes

- i expect better from grrm, he's really good

just because you don't like it doesn't make it bad story tell and If GRRM is a good writer then he can write a compelling story of them excepting a legitimate Jon. the point is as a writer you're not going to have a reveal that takes as long as the R+L=J change so little. I mean there is no drama in Jon just being another man's bastard but Jon being a legit heir adds so much Dama to the plot. Jon being legit effects every plot line in the story so its the only fitting choice for a reveal this big

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1 hour ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

First you assume that the Targ line will matter in the end and secondly that Jon himself will claim the throne. My guess is that after LN2.0 the one who lead the humanity to victory, Jon, will be the one who will have the burden of rebuilding Westeros and no one will care if he is trueborn or not. His parents will be just an excuse just like how Rhaelle was an excuse when Robert took the Throne

 

My Safiye Sultana

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3 hours ago, The Wolves said:

My Safiye Sultana

I am glad that someone knows this extraordinary woman! She was the best! Better that all the Sultana, I am not sure what is the  plural of Sultana, we have seen. She is also, for some reason, the way I imagine TQWNW.

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What is important to realise is that Jon there really isn't anyway to prove if Jon is a bastard or not. But if he does claim the IT, well, he will probably establish a new ruling house. I like to call this new house House Snowfall. Jon will have made peace with being a bastard, and any children he has will have to put up with dealing with being from born of a bastard's line. 

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Him being Ned Stark's bastard is essential part of his self identity. Even if it turns out that he is a legitimate Targaryen prince that has claim to Iron Throne, he will always identify himself as a Stark. If he might need to take Iron Throne, he will do it as King in the North, Jon Stark, not prince Jon Targaryen, or whatever Targaryen name he was given at his birth.

I always hear the argument that people (southerners) will NEVER accept Stark king as their overlord, my question is: how do you know the situation by the time Jon makes a move to the throne? Don't you think South will be devastated by Euron Greyjoy, or Daenerys and her invasion, or maybe even greyscale and some other diseases just as the North is devastated by White Walkers? If at this time of darkness and fear supporting Stark king is the best option southerners have for peace and stability, I do not think the last name will matter to common people that much.

If this story is not about how your leadership and self-worth should define you, not your blood line or family name, then I guess I was reading it wrong. I mean, this was the reason Jon was sent to Night's Watch in the first place storywise - an organization where they DO NOT care what your last name is. Jon was essentially groomed from the very start to judge a person based on his qualities and merit. Which will also apply later on in the story in his arc. He will become king of Westeros not because he was born Targaryen or Stark or Snow, he will be CHOSEN by people to lead them, because he is the best candidate.

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54 minutes ago, Scorpion92 said:

Him being Ned Stark's bastard is essential part of his self identity. Even if it turns out that he is a legitimate Targaryen prince that has claim to Iron Throne, he will always identify himself as a Stark. If he might need to take Iron Throne, he will do it as King in the North, Jon Stark, not prince Jon Targaryen, or whatever Targaryen name he was given at his birth.

I always hear the argument that people (southerners) will NEVER accept Stark king as their overlord, my question is: how do you know the situation by the time Jon makes a move to the throne? Don't you think South will be devastated by Euron Greyjoy, or Daenerys and her invasion, or maybe even greyscale and some other diseases just as the North is devastated by White Walkers? If at this time of darkness and fear supporting Stark king is the best option southerners have for peace and stability, I do not think the last name will matter to common people that much.

If this story is not about how your leadership and self-worth should define you, not your blood line or family name, then I guess I was reading it wrong. I mean, this was the reason Jon was sent to Night's Watch in the first place storywise - an organization where they DO NOT care what your last name is. Jon was essentially groomed from the very start to judge a person based on his qualities and merit. Which will also apply later on in the story in his arc. He will become king of Westeros not because he was born Targaryen or Stark or Snow, he will be CHOSEN by people to lead them, because he is the best candidate.

 

Well putting aside the  laughable notion that Jon is the best candidate,Westeros is not a democracy and if GRRM makes it a democracy at the end of the story it would be bad storytelling based on the world he created.  Thankfully I have better faith in George that he will avoid such a lame ending.

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I think there is a strong possiblity that Rhaegar and Lyanna did indeed marry which would make Jon legitimate and thus a Targaryen. However as it was said even if he ends on the Iron Throne he will probably not do that as a Targaryen but as a Stark or even a 'Stargaryen' because he was raised by Starks not be Targaryens so he identifies himself with them. 

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1 hour ago, El Guapo said:

 

Well putting aside the  laughable notion that Jon is the best candidate,Westeros is not a democracy and if GRRM makes it a democracy at the end of the story it would be bad storytelling based on the world he created.  Thankfully I have better faith in George that he will avoid such a lame ending.

Then you have not been paying attention to the issues George wants to picture us: about war, feudal society, how a conflict between few squabbling houses destroys the lives of thousands of people, etc. His story is all about how war is ugly and should be avoided when given chance. Feudal system is a system of slavery, but in different form. It is not a fair system at all for people living in it. Mostly your life is determined by your bloodline. If you are nobody, you have no chance for better life, only if you are in the right place at the right time (characters like Davos, Bronn, Littlefinger,etc.).

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