Light a wight tonight Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 3 hours ago, El Guapo said: The Dany that ruled Meereen was not a good Queen. The Dany that emerged after he ephiany at the end of ADWD has the potential to be a great Queen. Living on Drogon's leftovers and unable to make a hat? Those are great qualifications, for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Light a wight tonight Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 23 minutes ago, Knight of valour said: Danerys Dosn't kill more than anyone else and the ones she does kill are scum. Everybody in Astapor (?) over the age of 13 who wears a tokar? Sounds like genocide to me. Some people consider genocide evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OtherFromAnotherMother Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 32 minutes ago, Light a wight tonight said: Living on Drogon's leftovers and unable to make a hat? Those are great qualifications, for sure. 18 minutes ago, Light a wight tonight said: Everybody in Astapor (?) over the age of 13 who wears a tokar? Sounds like genocide to me. Some people consider genocide evil. Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dex drako Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 1 hour ago, Knight of valour said: Danerys Dosn't kill more than anyone else and the ones she does kill are scum. you think it makes it okay because you think they're sum? SMH... that right there is the path to being Hitler, it also tends to be the difference between those that like dany and those that don't now Dany has killed more then most people in this story and the people others kill tend to "warriors" in armies while the people she kills are "villagers". its the big joke about Dany's characters, the bolton's talk about torturing people but rarely do so and they're bad people. Dany has tortures 100's on "screen" but you didn't like so its okay. other people cheating at deals are "bad" but Dany knowingly cheating the masters of the unsullied was good and smart. the red wedding is horrible but Dany killing a sellsword company drunk on the wine she gave them while "trying" to find peace is okay. I could go on but it makes my point. Dany does what other characters get called "evil" for but because GRRM has her doing those things to 2d straw men who never get a POV to show there point of view its okay. but to me and other people like me that is not enough to make it okay and all of this is betere her fire and blood speech from her last chapter. in the end doing evil in the name of good is still evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCK Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 One of the biggest distinctions in this series is that a great conqueror doesn't necessarily translate into a good ruler. Right now, Daenerys is essentially the female version of Robert Baratheon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaedys Targaryen Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 11 hours ago, Vaedys Targaryen said: now Dany has killed more then most people in this story and the people others kill tend to "warriors" in armies while the people she kills are "villagers". its the big joke about Dany's characters, the bolton's talk about torturing people but rarely do so and they're bad people. Dany has tortures 100's on "screen" but you didn't like so its okay. other people cheating at deals are "bad" but Dany knowingly cheating the masters of the unsullied was good and smart. the red wedding is horrible but Dany killing a sellsword company drunk on the wine she gave them while "trying" to find peace is okay. I actually never thought about this. Quote in the end doing evil in the name of good is still evil. Wise words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radish Knight Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 Unlikely. At best in Westeros she might be remembered most for aiding in the fight against the Others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywater-Watch Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 I hope not to confuse TV-Show and book-story, but if I remeber correctly, Dany showed no inclination to analyze the behaviour and motivations of the different houses in Westeros during Robert Baratheon's rebellion. For her, those, who did not support the Mad King Aerys where bad "Usurper's Dogs"), the others good. With that lack of analyzing something, she will have difficulties to find allies in Westeros, which she would need to conquer AND to rule. Her allies in Mereen (apart from Sellswords) are freed people (Brazen Beast, Unsullied) owing her something because she freed them. That will hardly work in Westeros, where there is no slavery. But on the other hand she shows more sense of justice than most of the monsters in Westeros (Jeoffrey, Cersei), she seeks compromises when these lead to saving human lives and peace (e.g. she protects her wards, she marries Hizdahr zo Loraq to end the civil war with the Harpies). So, all in all, if Tyrion would take a place at her side as an advisor she could overcome her above mentioned lack of empathy for houses in Westeros and thus find the allies she would need. So, she could become a good ruler, yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePrinceThatKnewNothing Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 Dany gets a lot of hate and I can see why, but let's remember she comes into this power at a very young age, who is going to make all the right decisions at such a young age? Dany has all the right intentions but she doesn't think about the long term plan. She abolished slavery instantly rather than doing it gradually. Sometimes she has too much of a good heart just like our friend Jon Snow, she should have destroyed the Yunkai'i masters instead of leaving them untouched and she should have killed the masters of Meereen when she had the chance. But at the end of ADWD I think she learnt her final lesson just like Jon Snow. We're going to see more a more ruthless and smarter dany and jon in TWoW. I believe she will be a great ruler when she has the right council around her and after all she has experienced, it's time for her to bring Fire and Blood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coolbeard the Exile Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 8 hours ago, Dex drako said: you think it makes it okay because you think they're sum? SMH... that right there is the path to being Hitler, it also tends to be the difference between those that like dany and those that don't now Dany has killed more then most people in this story and the people others kill tend to "warriors" in armies while the people she kills are "villagers". its the big joke about Dany's characters, the bolton's talk about torturing people but rarely do so and they're bad people. Dany has tortures 100's on "screen" but you didn't like so its okay. other people cheating at deals are "bad" but Dany knowingly cheating the masters of the unsullied was good and smart. the red wedding is horrible but Dany killing a sellsword company drunk on the wine she gave them while "trying" to find peace is okay. I could go on but it makes my point. Dany does what other characters get called "evil" for but because GRRM has her doing those things to 2d straw men who never get a POV to show there point of view its okay. but to me and other people like me that is not enough to make it okay and all of this is betere her fire and blood speech from her last chapter. in the end doing evil in the name of good is still evil. Ridicoulus comparison of Danerys being Hitler. The slavers that Danerys kill are despicable people that crucify children. Have you even read the books? She is obviously an imperfect but good person. When Drogo's Khalassar raids that vilage she is horrified and saves many people and forbids rape. She does allow the torture of the winsellers daughter after many of her Unsullied gets murderd to find out who is doing it and that is probably not up to the UN Human Rights Criteria you are right. There is a diffrence slaughtering everyone in a wedding and using deception and cunning to defeat you enemy. Don't get the Danerys hate. She is a realistic character with flaws in her consitency sometimes but in the end she want's maximum human well being. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldhands Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 59 minutes ago, ThePrinceThatKnewNothing said: Dany gets a lot of hate and I can see why, but let's remember she comes into this power at a very young age, who is going to make all the right decisions at such a young age? Dany has all the right intentions but she doesn't think about the long term plan. She abolished slavery instantly rather than doing it gradually. Sometimes she has too much of a good heart just like our friend Jon Snow, she should have destroyed the Yunkai'i masters instead of leaving them untouched and she should have killed the masters of Meereen when she had the chance. But at the end of ADWD I think she learnt her final lesson just like Jon Snow. We're going to see more a more ruthless and smarter dany and jon in TWoW. I believe she will be a great ruler when she has the right council around her and after all she has experienced, it's time for her to bring Fire and Blood So killing 163 people without a trial and in a very brutal way and killing every Astapori over 12 for being part of a particular system are good intentions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferocious Veldt Roarer Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 9 hours ago, Dex drako said: you think it makes it okay because you think they're sum? SMH... that right there is the path to being Hitler, it also tends to be the difference between those that like dany and those that don't You know who else used over-the-top parallels? Hitler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 55 minutes ago, Knight of valour said: The slavers that Danerys kill are despicable people that crucify children. How do you know that? How do you know that those people that Dany killed were the same people that had killed those children? 55 minutes ago, Knight of valour said: She is obviously an imperfect but good person. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. 56 minutes ago, Knight of valour said: She does allow the torture of the winsellers daughter after many of her Unsullied gets murderd to find out who is doing it and that is probably not up to the UN Human Rights Criteria you are right. Those winesellers daughters were innocent and most likely children. Just like those 12 years old she condemned to death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coolbeard the Exile Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 4 hours ago, Jon's Queen Consort said: How do you know that? How do you know that those people that Dany killed were the same people that had killed those children? The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Those winesellers daughters were innocent and most likely children. Just like those 12 years old she condemned to death. Read the books again. Nothing implies that she was condemned to death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Yozza Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 Dany could become a good ruler, but I really don't see her as being great and especially not the greatest ever. At the moment, she is an incompetent ruler with good intentions, which is in some ways worse than just being plain evil. She's not just made some bad decisions, every decision she's made in regards to Slaver's Bay has been the wrong one. She's an alright conqueror but as a ruler...I don't see it yet, though I can see the potential. Unfortunately, I doubt that potential will ever be reached. Remember, Dany's barren now. So even assuming she takes the throne and kills all other claimants, then there will be another succession war however many years later. That's why I think Aegon might have more of a chance at surviving the story than some people think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 31 minutes ago, Knight of valour said: Read the books again. Nothing implies that she was condemned to death. First watch your language and second she did condemn those 12 years old to death. She ordered the torture of two innocent girls, most likely children, and ordered the death of 12 years old children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coolbeard the Exile Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 I just remember that the Shavepate was allowed to "extract" information of the winesellers daughter and that dosn't mean kill and if that is right or wrong could be debatable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowen Marsh Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 On 10/15/2016 at 11:51 AM, blckp said: she is only 14 years old yet already accomplished so many things and capable than any ruler westeros had last hundred years I think so. Her accomplishments, the liberating of millions of former slaves, sets her on a path that will have her follow in the footsteps of Aegon the Conqueror. Dany will exceed even his accomplishments and become the greatest Targaryen of them all. The challenges she currently faces in Meereen such as the pale mare, will help her prepare to lead Westeros through the long night. Disease and starvation will happen during the long night, which is projected to last for many decades. I predict she will maintain ties with the East when she goes back to Westeros. The Stepstones will become a land bridge again due to the lowering of the sea level and she will give many from Westeros the choice to migrate to the East. There is room for them in abandoned cities like Vaes Tolorro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philokles Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 She's too impulsive - that manifests itself in poor long-term planning, which is the main cause of the mess she has got herself in. That in turn contributes to the frequent oscillations between doing what she considers the most pragmatic and moral course of action (although as of the end of ADWD, she seems to have settled for better or for worse on being a conqueror). In general, a little bit more thinking and most of her issues could be avoided. If, like Arya, she can temper that impetuosity then she may well become a good ruler, but she is no natural and I doubt she will spend any of the rest of the books ruling in peacetime anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywater-Watch Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 If I read the comments above it seems to me that at least two different criteria to judge a good from a bad ruler are applied: 1. The death count; i.e. how many people have been killed until now by or on instruction of the ruler in question - with a sub-criterion of how "unjust and/or cruel" these killings were 2. political decisions taken and implemented to stabilize the realm on the long term - are such decisions taken, how do we judge them? Let us take three examples: Aerys II, Robert Baratheon, Joffrey Baratheon/Lannister In Terms of death count we probably could make this differentiation: - Aerys II and Robert Baratheon had a high death count both; Joffrey due to his short reign a lower. - Aerys II was ready to burn the whole of Kings Landing (something like 250.000 People) in desperation, so thumbs down. How unjust/cruel were these killings? - Aerys II and Joffrey ordered cruel and unjust killings (thumbs down) - Robert too (he was happy about the cruel death of Elia and her children), though he did not order them (as far as we know) and his wrath was restricted to Targaryens. Same for Daenerys during her pregnancy (he first ordered her murder, on his death bed regretted and annulled it) => thumbs horizontal for Robert. As to political decisions: I admit that I do not recall a lot of Aerys II. Joffrey was unforgiving and stringent, not trying to befriend the smallfolk, implacable towards Stannis and the rebellious North. Robert made few decisions, whoever bent his knee was welcome back in the Realm. Daenerys always tried to limit the death count, she always tried to protect the smallfolk, her political decisions have been towards stability and peace (from what she thought to be just). So, compared to Aerys II, Robert and Joffrey I think she is a much more promising ruler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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