Tywin out of character with LF

[One-eyed Misbehavin]

I have major problems with everyone's treatment of LF especially Tywin (and Varys but that sounds like another post to me)

 I don't have my books on me so the quotes won't be perfect but very close 

1. Tywin speaking to Tyrion. "Harenhall was the seat of kings" (Slynt doesn't deserve it whatsoever) but the man who bribed Slynt and is the son of an immigrant sheep farmer does? (Tywin gave full approvrment to this up jump) 

 I've heard that little thing is not a threat, he doesn't have an army, he's just a mild tempered blah blah blah....

2.  Except now he is the LP of the riverlands so he does have a army (kind of) and all he had to do was combine the richest region with the region with the most food (not hard at all, anyone could have pulled it off)

3. Most importantly  if  Lysa didn't join war to protect sister/family...  Wouldn't tywin make her  come down from the mountain and lord Robert as well, and make them bend the knee?  And question what she saving her army for and why she's staying so idle.  The Lannister's almost lost the war 

[Trigger Warning]

The Vale is powerful enough to the point that antagonising them is dangerous, Tywin probably counts his blessings that they didn't join the Starks. It's the same with Doran, Tyrion bought Dornish neutrality with the hand of a princess. The more powerful an individual lord the easier it is for them to ignore their feudal duties to their overlord. Littlefinger was the quickest way to bring the Vale back into the fold peacefully, that gives him enormous value, not to mention the part he played in negotiating with the Tyrells, Tywin probably sees huge  value in him at this point and probably sees that value as overshadowing his low birth, though it isn't so low as Slynt's anyway.

Regarding him becoming Lord Paramount of the Trident, for now it's an empty title. Unruly lords and the most war torn region on the continent, Littlefinger would probably have to spend the next few decades putting down revolts and bringing unruly vassals to heel before  he could even hope to muster the armies of his Riverlands vassals for war. Either he eventually gains full control and he becomes a useful and grateful ally (as Tywin sees it) or he never establishes control and remains an ineffectual overlord, either way I don'y think Tywin would see it as much of an issue  at that point. 

[chrisdaw]

LF came up with the plan and brokered the alliance that saved House Lannister, after this, as far as most anyone is concerned he is a Lannister man. The comparison to what Slynt got shows how LF is good at this.

Historically Tywin's mindset existed too, but people such as Cromwell, a blacksmith's son, proved themselves valuable enough to rise as high as anyone not born to a king might.

Tywin had nothing to gain from antagonising another great house. Sending LF to court her, who is in his eyes a reliable Lannister man now, was his method to bring her back into the fold.

[Bironic]

LF isn't as lowborn as Slynt. Slynt is a butcher's son. LF is a Lord's son, he holds lands and a keep. He was raised as a ward by the Tullys and served well both in Grafton as well as in KL on the small council.

As others have pointes out he served the Lannisters well. He bought the Gold cloaks, invented the Story of Shireen's illegitimacy, and most important brokered the Tyrell-Lanniste alliance.

[Stormking902]

giving LF Harrenhal was nothing to Tywin he probably assumes that LF doesnt have the funds to properly maintain a huge castle like Harrenhal and even if he did the Riverlords would never truly accept LF as their overlord so if LF ever did decide to go against the Lannisters he knows the Riverlords would rather choose team Lannister then team NOBODY Baelish. To compare Slynt to LF if way off though as peole have stated LF is atleast a noble and raised by a Grest house. 

[One-eyed Misbehavin]

I guess so.... I'm sure Tywin new the crowns expenses quite well (better) than anyone alive besides LF. Tywin would know (and easily spotted) bernie baelish Madoff petyr 

Vale is too easy to cut off Tywin would crack the code of the "impenetrable cadtle"

I just think he soulful have sniffed something out about the entire small council eventually *cough* Tyrion *cough"

Maybe I'm overestimating Tywin. But I don't think so, a shadow of tywin (Kevin) was enough to keep (certain) people away.

Unfounded the Cersei High Sparrow deal ridiculous. Idgaf if someone had my mom fire and blood.... (Or lions I understand that was out of context)  would be the last of your concerns.

 

[OtherFromAnotherMother]

5 hours ago, One-eyed Misbehavin said:

1. Tywin speaking to Tyrion. "Harenhall was the seat of kings" (Slynt doesn't deserve it whatsoever) but the man who bribed Slynt and is the son of an immigrant sheep farmer does? (Tywin gave full approvrment to this up jump) 

Comparing Slynt with LF is like comparing a Kia Forte to a Ferrari.  LF is so much more valuable than Slynt.

I doubt Tywin "likes" LF, but he sure recognizes value when he sees it.

[dariopatke]

Everyone explained that LF is much better than Slynt and he did many more things for house Lannister. 

So he arranged a marriage which was risky and was rewarded properly (I guess for part in Neds coup, too) with Harenhall. 

Then he was sent to marry Lysa, but he lost position in SC, very good position and he did not get much with that when you think twice: he was not Warden of East, he was not Lord of Eyrie nor his son could ever become if  SR dies. 

He is LP of Trident though, but I do not think Tywin planned permanently to put him, his job is to put Riverlands back in order and once spring arrives and/or Emmon dies he might name Ty as LP, he is half Lannister after all.

[One-eyed Misbehavin]

Everyone's totally blowing what he did out of proportion he combined the richest house and food house, and eve had to ask to go. And who cares how much he outranks Slynt Tywin said the seat of kings. Y'all are saying Tywin recognizes his "talent" so therefore are saying his talent and loyalty earn him a marriage to a very powerful lords mother and his regent, a LP position AND the seat of kings.

And by the way the freys/boltons did 100x more for the Lannisters than LF.

Besides Tywin sent Tyrion in his stead to rattle (get rid/kill off) some of the small council he knew his grandsons were around scheming losers

[Lemon of Lemonwood]

22 hours ago, dariopatke said:

He is LP of Trident though, but I do not think Tywin planned permanently to put him, his job is to put Riverlands back in order and once spring arrives and/or Emmon dies he might name Ty as LP, he is half Lannister after all.

He probably had a scheme simmilar to that with the Boltons:

1. Give the lordship to Littlefinger for his considerable services to the realm as a reward (oh,this is hillarious),
2. Have him weather the first storm of broken men, discontent lords, an alarming death rate of Freys, packs of wolves AND zombies going their merry way around the lands.
3. Then, when Tywin Frey is old enough and more secure in his position, withdraw his protection from LF, let him get killed by an enemy or the Harrenhal curse (maybe give a hand to Black Harren if he seems too...slothful?)
4. Reward the Riverlands to his grandnephew.

If Edmure got to father a girl, even better, he could betrothe her to Tywin Frey and add some legitimacy to his rule.

 

[Lost Melnibonean]

On 10/15/2016 at 4:34 PM, One-eyed Misbehavin said:

I have major problems with everyone's treatment of LF especially Tywin (and Varys but that sounds like another post to me)

 I don't have my books on me so the quotes won't be perfect but very close 

1. Tywin speaking to Tyrion. "Harenhall was the seat of kings" (Slynt doesn't deserve it whatsoever) but the man who bribed Slynt and is the son of an immigrant sheep farmer does? (Tywin gave full approvrment to this up jump) 

 I've heard that little thing is not a threat, he doesn't have an army, he's just a mild tempered blah blah blah....

2.  Except now he is the LP of the riverlands so he does have a army (kind of) and all he had to do was combine the richest region with the region with the most food (not hard at all, anyone could have pulled it off)

3. Most importantly  if  Lysa didn't join war to protect sister/family...  Wouldn't tywin make her  come down from the mountain and lord Robert as well, and make them bend the knee?  And question what she saving her army for and why she's staying so idle.  The Lannister's almost lost the war 

Lord Petyr Baelish, despite coming from a less renowned house, was at least born to nobility. His father won sufficient respect to win Petyr a fostering at Riverrun. He rose high under Jon Arryn, and earned a seat on the Small Council. He sdied with House Lannister at a critical moment, and he joined House Tyrell to Joffrey's cause. 

The Riverlands are fragmented and rudderless. Lord Petyr of Fingers would have to spend a fortune to bring in enough muscle to claim and secure his seat, much less the entire reguon. 

Tywin did demand for Robert Arryn to pay homage to Joffrey. He could not enforce it though, so why pursue it and magnify the weakness? 

[Blackfish Tully]

16 hours ago, One-eyed Misbehavin said:

 

And by the way the freys/boltons did 100x more for the Lannisters than LF.

 

Littlefinger is the one who got the Gold Cloaks onto Cersei side when she was battling Ned  for control of Kings Landing plus he's the one who negotiated the alliance with the Tyrells and also was the one who was able to get the Vale to bend the knee to the Iron Throne after the war so he clearly earned his rewards.  

[dariopatke]

On 17.10.2016. at 10:55 AM, Lemon of Lemonwood said:

He probably had a scheme simmilar to that with the Boltons:

1. Give the lordship to Littlefinger for his considerable services to the realm as a reward (oh,this is hillarious),
2. Have him weather the first storm of broken men, discontent lords, an alarming death rate of Freys, packs of wolves AND zombies going their merry way around the lands.
3. Then, when Tywin Frey is old enough and more secure in his position, withdraw his protection from LF, let him get killed by an enemy or the Harrenhal curse (maybe give a hand to Black Harren if he seems too...slothful?)
4. Reward the Riverlands to his grandnephew.

If Edmure got to father a girl, even better, he could betrothe her to Tywin Frey and add some legitimacy to his rule.

 

Something like that, yes. Oh, certainly, why marry Tyrion to Sansa if Boltons are in power there? Roose can be Warden for some time but after North is peaceful he very likely planned to name little half Lannister as Warden and have Lannisters in four regions and if his plan succeded and Cersei is married to Willas he would have undefeatable power bloc but Marge being queen does similar job.

[Adam Yozza]

On 16/10/2016 at 9:00 PM, One-eyed Misbehavin said:

Everyone's totally blowing what he did out of proportion he combined the richest house and food house, and eve had to ask to go. And who cares how much he outranks Slynt Tywin said the seat of kings. Y'all are saying Tywin recognizes his "talent" so therefore are saying his talent and loyalty earn him a marriage to a very powerful lords mother and his regent, a LP position AND the seat of kings.

And by the way the freys/boltons did 100x more for the Lannisters than LF.

Besides Tywin sent Tyrion in his stead to rattle (get rid/kill off) some of the small council he knew his grandsons were around scheming losers

He also, you know, arranged the alliance that saved King's Landing without which Joffrey, Cersei, Tyrion and probably Tommen would have died. Not to mention he bought of the Gold Cloaks in GOT and made sure that Ned's coup failed. 

[One-eyed Misbehavin]

On October 18, 2016 at 6:46 PM, Adam Yozza said:

He also, you know, arranged the alliance that saved King's Landing without which Joffrey, Cersei, Tyrion and probably Tommen would have died. Not to mention he bought of the Gold Cloaks in GOT and made sure that Ned's coup failed. 

I've already mentioned how marrying the richest region and region with the most food isn't that genius impressive. Moon Boy could have accomplished that.... Guess he deserved harrenhall too

And great job LF you bribed Jonas freaking Slynt what a pure genius. Who's he gonna choose Cersei or Ned? (Crazy bitch who poisons all her enemies or an honorable man who has trust/has no idea what a schemer I am? Butttttt married my girl) 

He used the crown's money to pay for the Gold Cloaks and gave Slynt the largest castle ever again not that clever at all. Both FELL into his lap..... I know he asked to go to highgarden (by far his "best" move as it made him Lysa's "equal") so I guess he did ask 1 good question. Still, I'm right u guys are wrong sorry

[One-eyed Misbehavin]

On October 18, 2016 at 6:46 PM, Adam Yozza said:

He also, you know, arranged the alliance that saved King's Landing without which Joffrey, Cersei, Tyrion and probably Tommen would have died. Not to mention he bought of the Gold Cloaks in GOT and made sure that Ned's coup failed. 

He also you know isn't a complete moron and is more scared of Tywin than Ned AND he used the crown's money and bribed Slynt with HH. ANYONE COULD HAVE BRIBED SLYNT it wasn't clever or hard to do, it was 1 of 2 options.

The Alliance is stupidly overrated he combined the richest and the most well fed (all the food apparently) after he asked to go (smartest move he pulled in early books) this isn't clever it's a little pragmatic. TUWIN would see right thru this bullshit he's so good at analyzing people's motives (except his kids) example-He perfectly described Jon Con future/strategies

 

 

[Joy Hill]

Everyone tends to be a little OOC with LF, IMO. Tyrion does not seek vengeance against him. Jaime, who in the first book says they ought to be glad that Robert did not choose LF as Hand, considers that he'd be a pretty good candidate in AFFC.

[Stormking902]

I think people give LF to much credit in some ways, for example I do not believe he has some grand mastermind endgame plan that will someday put him on the IT. I believe he is very intelligent and simply wishs to rise FAR beyound his birth which he has done so quite fast, one of LF problems is its never enough and he wants to see himself keep going hes like a master chess player in a sense. I do how ever believe he doesnt like the nobility structure of society as his whole life he was treated as a second class citizin and this is him being a noble as well, how ever some fan theories of him destroying feudal society as a whole is very far fetched for me. 

I also hope he DOES have a master endgame plan but as iv said I doubt it. 

[Blackfish Tully]

5 hours ago, One-eyed Misbehavin said:

I've already mentioned how marrying the richest region and region with the most food isn't that genius impressive. Moon Boy could have accomplished that.... Guess he deserved harrenhall too

The alliance with the Tyrells saved Kings landing and the Lannisters so shouldn't that be rewarded ? why wouldn't Tywin reward Littlefinger for that ? Plus the fact that making Littlefinger Lord of Harrenhall gives him legitimacy in marrying Lysa and getting the Vale to bend the knee to the Iron Throne.

 

5 hours ago, One-eyed Misbehavin said:

AND he used the crown's money and bribed Slynt with HH. ANYONE COULD HAVE BRIBED SLYNT it wasn't clever or hard to do, it was 1 of 2 options.

 

Who else could have bribed Slynt besides Littlefinger ? Littlefinger was the only one who was in the unique position of being trusted by Ned and Cersei and had the resources and the connections to get the Gold Cloaks on Ned's or Cersei's sides. 

At that point in time Littlefinger had all the power in Kings Landing if he wanted Ned in power he would only have to get the Gold Cloaks on his side but instead he turned them against Ned saving the Lannister's in Kings Landing , Tywin is not stupid he understands how important and loyal Littlefinger was to the Lannisters before and during the war. .

If Littlefinger does not deserve Harrenhall then who does? who has done more for them then Littlefinger. 

[Blackfish Tully]

4 hours ago, Joy Hill said:

Everyone tends to be a little OOC with LF, IMO. Tyrion does not seek vengeance against him. 

Tyrion was only delaying his vengeance until Kings Landing was safe and he had a chance to figure out how deep Littlefinger's corruption ran . Taking out the Master of Coin while Kings Landing is in the process of being attacked would not have been the best idea, who knows what kind of chaos removing Littlefinger at that time would have caused.