Sopranos- so awesome

[Iskaral Pust]

I'm still enjoying but I don't have an ounce of sympathy for any of them.  I get the impression we're supposed to feel sorry for Carmela, but all I see is a trashy mob-wife who accepts her scumbag husband for an easy life and every fur coat or gaudy ring dispels her resentment of his cheating, and who indulges in her own flirtation and emotional cheating in every season.  Possibly Meadow is sympathetic as an innocent who didn't choose her parents, but then her defense of her dad at Jackie Jr.'s funeral suggests she's on the same path as her mother.

As for Tony being the least worst of the scum around him, I think that's mostly the empathy from seeing the story from his POV.  

I'm not sure how to react to AJ.  He always seems like he has a severe cognitive impairment, not just an awkward, disinterested teenage phase. 

Compelling viewing all the same, although it demystifies the mafia a lot.  I don't see much glamor or even competence in this seedy, clutzy portrayal.

[Richard Writhen]

I only saw the first three seasons but they were pretty fresh.

[Nictarion]

7 hours ago, Iskaral Pust said:

As for Tony being the least worst of the scum around him, I think that's mostly the empathy from seeing the story from his POV.  

Nah, he really was just a better human being. Tony wasn't a rapist, or someone who would brutally beat a guy to death for being gay. Having Tony's POV shows us he's not that bad. He was a sociopath, no doubt, but a lot of the other guys were actually psychopaths. 

Agent Harris roots for Tony over Phil for that very reason. Phil tried to set up an undercover agent for rape and beating. That's not something Tony would ever do.

[l2 0 5 5]

Watched the S5 episode where Carmela has the 75th b-day party for her dad last night. Forgot about Junior playing party crasher by calling Carm's dad lol... He's losing it steadily at this point.

[Isis]

I think that point you made at the start about comparing Walter White and Tony Soprano is a good one. Tony never really changes. And it's true that we are 'supposed' to find him sympathetic, at least to begin with, because he has feelings and weaknesses, he loves animals, all that stuff. And as others have said, he looks like an ok guy when compared to some others in the show. 

But yeah, he's no nice guy. And as becomes evident, nobody associated with the mob are truly innocent. I think the show is quite clear on that.

And yes, it's a bit bleak and depressing. Bit if you can handle the darkness of it there are some amazing performances and set pieces. I love Chris's intervention especially. But then I also love the relationship between Tony and Janice. It's fucking poisonous and it's clearly been festering since childhood but it's kind of electrifyingly horrible to watch. 

I find the show fascinating and entertaining in equal measures. 

[Swordfish]

i sympathized a bit with Bobby.  But that's more or less the extent of it.

[Nictarion]

1 hour ago, Swordfish said:

i sympathized a bit with Bobby.  But that's more or less the extent of it.

The episode where Tony makes him kill the French Canadian guy is so heartbreaking. The last scene where Bobby is holding his daughter gets me every time.

Other than Bobby, I always had a soft spot for Adriana. She asked Chris to leave the life more than once. 

[Swordfish]

39 minutes ago, Nictarion said:

 

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The episode where Tony makes him kill the French Canadian guy is so heartbreaking. The last scene where Bobby is holding his daughter gets me every time.

 

Other than Bobby, I always had a soft spot for Adriana. She asked Chris to leave the life more than once. 

 

Yeah.  i went back and forth on Adriana, TBH.  

[DireWolfSpirit]

Drea de Matteo's acting for the Adriana character has really stood the test of time. Imo she was flat out brilliant in selling that part.

[Nictarion]

2 hours ago, DireWolfSpirit said:

Drea de Matteo's acting for the Adriana character has really stood the test of time. Imo she was flat out brilliant in selling that part.

Yeah, she was great.

She really held her own, even alongside a couple powerhouse actors like James Gandolfini and Edie Falco. 

[RumHam]

18 hours ago, Nictarion said:

Other than Bobby, I always had a soft spot for Adriana. She asked Chris to leave the life more than once. 

I dunno. Wasn't that mostly after <spoiler redacted> out of her own self interest? I feel like she was initially supportive of his career and enjoying the free shoes and what not. I remember her being quite excited when Chris was made. I think she was a lot like Carmela in that she turned a blind eye and rationalized what Chris and Tony did to earn a living.

[Nictarion]

5 hours ago, RumHam said:

I dunno. Wasn't that mostly after <spoiler redacted> out of her own self interest? I feel like she was initially supportive of his career and enjoying the free shoes and what not. I remember her being quite excited when Chris was made. I think she was a lot like Carmela in that she turned a blind eye and rationalized what Chris and Tony did to earn a living.

Sure, she enjoyed the perks to an extent, but she seemed to genuinely just be there to be with Chris, not for the money (they lived in a one bedroom apartment, not a mansion). I think she would have been with him no matter what he did. 

[RumHam]

32 minutes ago, Nictarion said:

Sure, she enjoyed the perks to an extent, but she seemed to genuinely just be there to be with Chris, not for the money (they lived in a one bedroom apartment, not a mansion). I think she would have been with him no matter what he did. 

Yeah, I don't disagree. But when you put it that way it just makes me wonder "why..?" He was an abusive junkie fuck up whose only redeeming quality was probably his vague desire to do something else with his life. And I think that was mostly just because wanted to be in show business. Not so much because he had a problem killing and extorting people. 

I also think one of the interesting things about the show's setting is that none of the Jersey mafia guys are especially well off. Tony's got a nice house but it's not thaaat luxurious. (I'm reminded of the episode where AJ and his friend visit his girlfriend's family estate and the friend eventually asks why AJ's family isn't that rich.) We see Tony, Paulie and Chris struggling financially at points. Silvo seemed to be doing ok, and I'm sure Tony would have been doing fine if it weren't for his gambling. But the show never really gives the impression that being a made guy is especially lucrative. 

[Nictarion]

58 minutes ago, RumHam said:

I also think one of the interesting things about the show's setting is that none of the Jersey mafia guys are especially well off. Tony's got a nice house but it's not thaaat luxurious. (I'm reminded of the episode where AJ and his friend visit his girlfriend's family estate and the friend eventually asks why AJ's family isn't that rich.) We see Tony, Paulie and Chris struggling financially at points. Silvo seemed to be doing ok, and I'm sure Tony would have been doing fine if it weren't for his gambling. But the show never really gives the impression that being a made guy is especially lucrative. 

Yeah, even Johnny Sack wasn't crazy rich. The Lupertazzi's were, but Carmine Sr was supposed to have been a NY 5 family boss for a long time. 

[Relic]

Just now, Nictarion said:

Yeah, even Johnny Sack wasn't crazy rich. The Lupertazzi's were, but Carmine Sr was supposed to have been a NY 5 family boss for a long time. 

I was always under the assumption that these dudes, as portrayed by Chase,  had money but spent most of it on lawyers. And the rest of it had to be stashed away and they lived "modest" lives because the FBI was all over their shit 24/7. The easiest way to get busted was by the IRS, so none of them could really flash the cash they were making, which made their entire shtick less about money and more about power. And tribalism. 

[Westerosi Coast Gangster]

SPOILERS....

 

Sopranos= great show, but to say it went out on top, I can't agree. the cut to black final scene left a bad taste in my mouth, and a big part of how I rate movies/shows is their ending. great, great show. RIP James Gandolfini.

[Swordfish]

15 minutes ago, Westerosi Coast Gangster said:

SPOILERS....

 

Sopranos= great show, but to say it went out on top, I can't agree. the cut to black final scene left a bad taste in my mouth, and a big part of how I rate movies/shows is their ending. great, great show. RIP James Gandolfini.

I hated the ending the first time around, but i actually didn't mind it on the re watch for some reason.

[SerHaHa]

Wow, so many things coming back reading this thread - Sopranos Home Movies is one of those great episodes that doesn't get all that much attention, and I agree about the ending - such a beautiful scene and perfectly scored.  Poor Bobby.  My father had a Chris Craft boat as well, a 1957 19" Capri that had a 180HP motor in it, very similar but older than the one Bobby has, so that episode is always special for me because of that, hearing the familiar sound of that motor as Tony and Bobby head out fishing.

Hah, the point about Jr spoiling Carmela's father's 75th, the best part of that whole sequence is Carmela's reaction, Falco hit it right out of the park and into the parking lot with that one, I still burst out laughing every time.

 

Quote

he loves animals, all that stuff.

The writer(s) go far out of their way to make the case that textbook sociopaths are able to feel love and empathy only really for animals and children.  At least a couple dozen times through the series Tony makes references to "poor little babies", and of course it's shown how disappointed he is that his daughter gives up on being a pediatrician, helping those little babies, to become a lawyer.  The episode where Meadow tells Tony that it was how she saw the FBI treat him all those years which convinced her to become a lawyer instead - his face says it all there, great acting by Gandolfini. 

 

Regarding the ending, I initially hated it as well, but over the years it has grown a bit on me.  The guy with the "members only" lame jacket, that brand that so many made guys wore, and the various times it was pointed out or ridiculed in the show, I think it was inserted into that final scene to give Tony's character a coin flip between going out with a bang, or facing life in prison due to the coming indictments, and to let the viewer simmer over it forever.  Cheap shot by the creators in a way, but again, over the years, I've made peace with that.

 

I too felt AJ played a very feckless character well in his later years, and although he seemed like a bit of a place holder at times, there were flashes of pure brilliance, after the bumbling attempt he made on Jr, and his scene with Tony in the police station parking lot, plus a few others in the final seasons. 

[Westerosi Coast Gangster]

Paulie and his "mom" scenes were gold, especially with the other woman in the retirement home. "those are my ma's"

[Nictarion]

46 minutes ago, Westerosi Coast Gangster said:

Paulie and his "mom" scenes were gold, especially with the other woman in the retirement home. "those are my ma's"

Everything Paulie was gold. Easily my second favorite character after Tony. He provided some of the funniest moments of the series. Probably didn't hurt that Tony Sirico had some real life organized crime experience in his younger years either. He made Paulie feel very authentic. 

I loved his beef with Feech. 

"He jumped out of the tree, and came at me with a chainsaw."