Jon Snow, The King Who Knelt?

[AdesteFideles]

Torrhen Stark put good sense before pride and knelt before Aegon instead of throwing the lives of his soldiers away. Does anyone else think history will repeat itself with the current KiTN doing the same? Will Jon will put the survival of his people before his pride and ask Dany to come north and help against the Whitewalkers? It would tie in with his "and I wish I had three dragons" musings.

I am reminded of this quote from Stannis, "Lord Seaworth is a man of humble birth, but he reminded me of my duty, when all I could think of was my rights. I had the cart before the horse, Davos said. I was trying to win the throne to save the kingdom, when I should have been trying to save the kingdom to win the throne". When Dany takes King's Landing, and if Davos if named Hand of the King and sent to treat with her, I think a similar thing might occur.

This could work with both book and show; however the show seems much closer to this than the books right now, what with book-Jon still being dead and all.

[Cridefea]

Yeah I think it's gonna happen. Jon isn't a man who lust for power, he cares about people.

[Lord Friendzone]

Did Yara knelt for Dany? No. Did Tyrion? No. 

Why should he? They're trying to build an alliance and Dany mentioned it or you think Jon will kneel for her and than agree to marriage?

[JonSnowed]

I've seen this a few times but why exactly would Jon kneel to Dany? I expect Dany to take Kings Landing and there will likely be some sort of uneasy alliance but simply kneeling to a foreign invader who may well turn out to be the ultimate villain of the series hardly fits with a bitter sweet ending as GRRM stated.

I'm guessing Jon sends Davos and Brienne to treat with Dany because it's in both their interests to unite against the others, if they start squabbling about politics this season I would be amazed. In the final season it's quite possible there is some sort of rift or even romance particularly to bring peace or when Dany finds out Jon is related and may be the rightful heir to the throne.

Overall I still see at least one of them dying - Dany being the more likely candidate in the final battle.

[Wrl6199]

Are you saying that you think that day might be the ultimate villain of the series? No but yeah i doubt that Jon will kneel to  Day mostly in terms of the stories. If he just keeled at first it would lead to less tension for the series so i think that he might kneel eventually but It definitely wont be immediate.

[AdesteFideles]

3 hours ago, Lord Friendzone said:

Did Yara knelt for Dany? No. Did Tyrion? No. 

Why should he? They're trying to build an alliance and Dany mentioned it or you think Jon will kneel for her and than agree to marriage?

Tyrion knelt when being made Hand, Yara agreed that the Ironborn would respect the Seven Kingdoms. All the demands were made by Dany, and they were all met. You don't always have to bend the knee physically. 

Hizdar was kneeling when he became "King" of Merreen. Being King didn't make him Dany's equal.

If there is an alliance between Jon and Dany (which, of course, there will be) it will be Jon that's petitioning Dany for help, not the other way around. If marrage follows, then, like Hizdar, it doesn't have to be a marrage of equals.

Dany doesn't seem to be the type that likes to share, and Jon doesn't seem to be the type that would care overlly much.

[Evarei]

Quote

You spent too much time with us, Jon Snow. You can never be a kneeler again

@AdesteFideles

Tyrion bent the knee of his own accord. Daenerys has never requested anyone bow before her if my memory serves me right. It'd be jarring if Jon did or had to.

They will most likely form an alliance but it will be on equal terms.

The North is a huge part of Westeros and the Long Night will hit each Kingdom. The White Walkers are a threat to everyone south of the Wall. if Daenerys wants to rule over Westeros and for it not to be a wasteland with everyone being undead, it's her duty to help protect it. Jon shouldnt have to ask for it or swear her the loyalty of the North as some payment as if it doesn't concern her and her plans for her future in the first place. It's not some grand favour, it's her obligation. She wants the place, she has to work for it.

 

[Lord Friendzone]

3 hours ago, AdesteFideles said:

Tyrion knelt when being made Hand, Yara agreed that the Ironborn would respect the Seven Kingdoms. All the demands were made by Dany, and they were all met. You don't always have to bend the knee physically. 

Hizdar was kneeling when he became "King" of Merreen. Being King didn't make him Dany's equal.

If there is an alliance between Jon and Dany (which, of course, there will be) it will be Jon that's petitioning Dany for help, not the other way around. If marrage follows, then, like Hizdar, it doesn't have to be a marrage of equals.

Dany doesn't seem to be the type that likes to share, and Jon doesn't seem to be the type that would care overlly much.

Dany herself agreed and offered that Yara will be Queen of Iron Islands and have her independency but answer to her or support her claim. Tyrion advised her not to hand things like that. They even shook hands, Doesn't look like kneeling to me. Tyrion when entered her services, did he knelt? No. If Jon and Dany meets, kneeling as you just said would be required in their first meeting, why later on? So no, I don't think it will come to that. They have much more important things to sort out.

Comparing Hizdar to Jon is an insult and totally different situation. Hizdar was simply put into this position, Dany had no respect for him but she need someone to marry. Totally different people, goals, situations.

I expect negotiations, you have two main protagonists, two people who shares same view on many things, who had been doing similiar things and cares about people. If Jon kneels, every bit of respect they had for him in the North is gone, especially combine that with already uneasy parentage to them. Show builds them with their parallels, story, journey as equals and somehow completing each other. Plenty of foreshadowing in the books pointing at her fondness towards Jon and vice versa. If they do this, it would only be illogical and hurt Jon as a character.

She said that she wants to marry for politics but she already did that. Third one will be for love. So, it's essentially possible that Dany will want political alliance but turn that she loves him and marry for love and not for politics. This completing one of Hotu visions.

Dany in the books and show is a bit different, that is true. But still she ain't no power hungry. Especially, is she knows about his parentage. All she wants in the books is family and some place she can call home, iron throne is her duty. Show twisted it but I don't expect her to be that much different, when she learns it. In fact, she'd be happy that she has some blood relative still alive in the world and care for them.

I see that a lot of Dany fans mainly points out this that Jon should, will and must kneel. Is it jealousy, hate or just to make Dany feel a bit more empowered? Especially as I said with two of the main protagonists. Not everybody is bound to kneel, worship or do everything for her.

[Cridefea]

11 hours ago, Lord Friendzone said:

I see that a lot of Dany fans mainly points out this that Jon should, will and must kneel. Is it jealousy, hate or just to make Dany feel a bit more empowered? Especially as I said with two of the main protagonists. Not everybody is bound to kneel, worship or do everything for her.

It's the opposite. I do not like Dany. She will ask Jon to kneel because she thinks it is her right. I don't see her like a flexible and tolerant person. She doesn't know nothing of Westeros, but she wants the kingdom. So why shouldn't she ask Jon to kneel?

Tyrion, Varys, Jorah, Yara etc etc aren't King/Queen, Jon is. That is really different. One of them (Jon or Dany) must step back.

[TheSmallOther]

Did I miss something? Dany fans think she is going to fight North for power while North will be fighting WW? Gods, save Westeros from another Targaryen ruler then.

[AdesteFideles]

1 hour ago, TheSmallOther said:

 Gods, save Westeros from another Targaryen ruler then.

That's my whole point. Everyone knows what happened the last time a Targaryen with three dragons came to Westeros, and Jon can't afford to fight a war on to fronts. So how far will Jon go to secure aid for the North? How much does Jon value his personal honour against the future of his people? I'm guessing not much. 

Remember, all that Westeros knows of Dany is that where-ever she goes, the corpes are piled high.

Considering events are seemingly repeating themselves, I thought it was an interesting "What if...?" to discuss.

[Marada78]

Ok spoiler alert

Spoiler

Kit seems to be in Bilbao, as so are Dany, Tyrion and Davos actors. They are there to film Dragonstone scenes. So it seems more and more confirmed the rumor that Jon will go meet Dany on Dragonstone in episode 2. And yes they will forge an alliance. 

But if the rumors are correct he will not kneel. Basically because he and Dany will go north without defeating Cersei.

 

[Larger than Average Finger]

Spoiler

Remember, a ticket from Ireland to Bilbao costs the production company very little.  They are not above asking Kit or Emilia Clark to fly to a set they have no need to be at, in order to throw the spoiler hunters off the scent.  They are all on Salary, so the only cost is that of a plane ticket and a couple nights in a Hotel.

Not really a spoiler, but hidden just in case.

[Queen of Procrastination]

2 hours ago, Marada78 said:

Ok spoiler alert

  Reveal hidden contents

Kit seems to be in Bilbao, as so are Dany, Tyrion and Davos actors. They are there to film Dragonstone scenes. So it seems more and more confirmed the rumor that Jon will go meet Dany on Dragonstone in episode 2. And yes they will forge an alliance. 

But if the rumors are correct he will not kneel. Basically because he and Dany will go north without defeating Cersei.

 

As far as I know this is only a rumor right, now and we don't even have pics yet. 

I don't see anything as a spoiler unless: 

- We have photo or video evidence. 

- It comes from someone who has leaked accurate information in the past like trude or the Spanish YouTuber. 

We had a lot of rumors or false summaries in the past years. 

[Mandzipop]

2 hours ago, Marada78 said:

Ok spoiler alert

  Hide contents

Kit seems to be in Bilbao, as so are Dany, Tyrion and Davos actors. They are there to film Dragonstone scenes. So it seems more and more confirmed the rumor that Jon will go meet Dany on Dragonstone in episode 2. And yes they will forge an alliance. 

But if the rumors are correct he will not kneel. Basically because he and Dany will go north without defeating Cersei.

 

Spoiler

It has been confirmed he was not in Spain. He was in Belfast today and has flown back to London a few hours ago. However, Javi was having a conversation on Twitter (which has since been deleted) saying that Kit is expected. The reason for the deletion is because Joe Dempsie is also there.

My own theory is that Jon and Davos go on a secret mining expedition to Dragonstone. However they get caught. Jon is imprisoned and Davos is sent back to Winterfell to negotiate terms of Jon's release. Basically if the north kneel, then Jon will be released. Sansa sends Brienne with Davos to agree to Dany's terms (they meet at the dragonpit). A decision made by the Stark children to save Jon.

 

[Queen of Procrastination]

3 minutes ago, Mandzipop said:

  Reveal hidden contents

It has been confirmed he was not in Spain. He was in Belfast today and has flown back to London a few hours ago. However, Javi was having a conversation on Twitter (which has since been deleted) saying that Kit is expected. The reason for the deletion is because Joe Dempsie is also there.

My own theory is that Jon and Davos go on a secret mining expedition to Dragonstone. However they get caught. Jon is imprisoned and Davos is sent back to Winterfell to negotiate terms of Jon's release. Basically if the north kneel, then Jon will be released. Sansa sends Brienne with Davos to agree to Dany's terms (they meet at the dragonpit). A decision made by the Stark children to save Jon.

 

as king you don't go on such secret expeditions yourself. You order other people to do it for you. Would be too risky for him to go there in person

 

Who is Javi btw?

[Mandzipop]

21 minutes ago, Lady of Whisperers said:

 

  Hide contents

as king you don't go on such secret expeditions yourself. You order other people to do it for you. Would be too risky for him to go there in person

 

Who is Javi btw?

Spoiler

He is the official Spanish source. He is the Spanish version of Sue from WotW. His name is Javi Marcos and he runs L7R.

 

[Evarei]

35 minutes ago, Mandzipop said:

  Hide contents

It has been confirmed he was not in Spain. He was in Belfast today and has flown back to London a few hours ago. However, Javi was having a conversation on Twitter (which has since been deleted) saying that Kit is expected. The reason for the deletion is because Joe Dempsie is also there.

My own theory is that Jon and Davos go on a secret mining expedition to Dragonstone. However they get caught. Jon is imprisoned and Davos is sent back to Winterfell to negotiate terms of Jon's release. Basically if the north kneel, then Jon will be released. Sansa sends Brienne with Davos to agree to Dany's terms (they meet at the dragonpit). A decision made by the Stark children to save Jon.

 

Spoiler

That'd just undermine and demean Jon's character and his arc. Even D and D are not that cruel, esp given we're approaching the endgame. Why ruin him for the very end?

 

[Mandzipop]

17 minutes ago, Evarei said:

  Hide contents

That'd just undermine and demean Jon's character and his arc. Even D and D are not that cruel, esp given we're approaching the endgame. Why ruin him for the very end?

 

Spoiler

Jon going to Dragonstone is pretty much confirmed by now. Kit should be flying out in the next couple of days. Liam is already there as he's been rehearsing on a beach with Peter.

 

[Queen of Procrastination]

19 minutes ago, Mandzipop said:

  Reveal hidden contents

Jon going to Dragonstone is pretty much confirmed by now. Kit should be flying out in the next couple of days. Liam is already there as he's been rehearsing on a beach with Peter.

 

Actually no it's only a rumor which becomes more popular the more often it is spread. Pretty much anyone can claim that he or she knows someone who is involved in the production and told him that x is going to  happen. This happens every year. It's not confirmed before we have pictures. The people who have claimed that it's going to happen don' t have any evidence.