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Jon Snow, The King Who Knelt?


AdesteFideles

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20 minutes ago, Marada78 said:

They are filming in Italica (dragonpit set) soon, as it will be closed until 12 November. Isn't that a little bit early for the last episode? Right now everything hinted they are filming episode 1 and 2.

I wouldn't say that because they usually film various scenes from different episodes.

 

On 19. 10. 2016 at 1:01 PM, Cridefea said:

I know they will convince her to be more flexible and she will help Jon with WW in the end. But I think it will happen later. First thing, she will ask him to kneel. Even if she is so open-minded like you say, she still has a distorted vision of Westeros.

As for Yara, she is not a Queen. There is the Euron/Yara fracture in the Iron Islands. Jon is already a King, by acclamation. Dany can't automatically permit him to be king, 'cause she bases her claiming to the throne by birthright. And in her vision, it is her right.

 

However, kneeling or not, I really hope the leaks are fake. :bang:

It's possible that Jon would rather kneel than be King of deadland.

Yara and Jon are different mainly because the North is bigger than all the other kingdoms combined. Iron Islands are important but small piece of it. I think alliance with not literally bending the knee might be on the cards, to be sort of good to both characters. Jon having face and Dany getting what she wants.

But then marriage? I mean, it could be but basically he would give her the North, the Vale and maybe even Riverlands in exchange fro dragons, dragonglass and army. At this point she doesn't even have to marry him. Kinda confused by this.

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11 hours ago, Lord Friendzone said:

But then marriage? I mean, it could be but basically he would give her the North, the Vale and maybe even Riverlands in exchange fro dragons, dragonglass and army. At this point she doesn't even have to marry him. Kinda confused by this.

Yeah probably I'm talking about kneeling because I really don't want a marriage. :P:P 

12 hours ago, Lord Friendzone said:

It's possible that Jon would rather kneel than be King of deadland.

Exactly.

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10 minutes ago, Cridefea said:

Yeah probably I'm talking about kneeling because I really don't want a marriage. :P:P 

Exactly.

I think marriage might be only talked about next season or they can do it and seal their alliance with it. Then reveal they'e family. Congrats Jon, you're married to your aunt. :D 

I can see Jon kneeling or agreeing to some alliance. Either way hopefully both of them will be done justice as characters and it will be good tv for the audience. I read in spoilers that Jon knelt or swear loyalty to her in private.

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17 minutes ago, Lord Friendzone said:

Congrats Jon, you're married to your aunt

"I didn't know I was dating my auntie"  next year on Discovery.

 

25 minutes ago, Lord Friendzone said:

I read in spoilers that Jon knelt or swear loyalty to her in private.

I've read that too, but this is one of the many things that I don't understand. Could jon leave the north and go to her for a secret meeting? If it's not secret then the alliance/kneel has to be public, everyone will know their decision. If the meeting is secret, what does the North know?

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40 minutes ago, Lord Friendzone said:

I think marriage might be only talked about next season or they can do it and seal their alliance with it. Then reveal they'e family. Congrats Jon, you're married to your aunt. :D 

I can see Jon kneeling or agreeing to some alliance. Either way hopefully both of them will be done justice as characters and it will be good tv for the audience. I read in spoilers that Jon knelt or swear loyalty to her in private.

Regarding the leaks:

Spoiler

Those spoilers said Jon offered to kneel and put off his crown in exchange for her help with the WWs in episode 6.  It doesn't say if Dany required him to actually give up his crown for her help...but it does say she sleeps with him in episode 7.  I'd say her choosing to sleep with him would strongly imply a future marriage between them, which mean Jon stays a King.

Dany requiring Jon to put off his crown and then making him her paramour....that wouldn't make any sense, and it's also a rage inducing plot development, so I'm refusing to believe it until the bitter end.  The leaker didn't specifically say that's what happens, so I've still got hope.  

 

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12 minutes ago, Cridefea said:

"I didn't know I was dating my auntie"  next year on Discovery.

 

I've read that too, but this is one of the many things that I don't understand. Could jon leave the north and go to her for a secret meeting? If it's not secret then the alliance/kneel has to be public, everyone will know their decision. If the meeting is secret, what does the North know?

And title of his biography "My aunt and my wife are the same chick" :lol:

 It was apparently after Dany lost Viserion at the hands of NK and Jon tried to comfort her, agreed to it. Previously against it.

Maybe their relationship was truly frosty and then they start to warm up to each other.

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8 minutes ago, Ser Wun Wun said:

Regarding the leaks:

  Reveal hidden contents

Those spoilers said Jon offered to kneel and put off his crown in exchange for her help with the WWs in episode 6.  It doesn't say if Dany required him to actually give up his crown for her help...but it does say she sleeps with him in episode 7.  I'd say her choosing to sleep with him would strongly imply a future marriage between them, which mean Jon stays a King.

Dany requiring Jon to put off his crown and then making him her paramour....that wouldn't make any sense, and it's also a rage inducing plot development, so I'm refusing to believe it until the bitter end.  The leaker didn't specifically say that's what happens, so I've still got hope.  

 

 

It was after she lost Viserion. Jon and co tried to capture wight North of the Wall and Viserion was killed by Night's King., mind you there will be filming at Iceland next year... Jon's little expedition might be accurate, Apparently 6 main characters will be required to shoot scenes. Jon, Beric, The Hound, Thoros, Tormund Jorah, Gendry went there. Dany saved them. That¨s like 7 or 8 but maybe they¨re gonna go North of the Wall but just not all of them, some. That might be his mistake. Thoros was killed by a wight polar bear. Jon fought off long after all the others escaped and than savd by uncle Benjen, who was killed. Jon escaped. Aeful lot of details.

Jon gave up his title from his own will, previously against it. Then they had sex and the Wall fell down as Night's King used Viserion, who has now blue flame coming from his mouth. It sounds cool to see dragon firing blue breath.

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26 minutes ago, Lord Friendzone said:

And title of his biography "My aunt and my wife are the same chick" :lol:

 

  Hide contents

 It was apparently after Dany lost Viserion at the hands of NK and Jon tried to comfort her, agreed to it. Previously against it.

Maybe their relationship was truly frosty and then they start to warm up to each other.

 

Spoiler

Yes, that's probably what the leaker meant. But there are so many things which don't make sense in the whole story that I wouldn't know how to elaborate my thoughts, not even in italian  XD

 

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4 minutes ago, Cridefea said:
  Reveal hidden contents

Yes, that's probably what the leaker meant. But there are so many things which don't make sense in the whole story that I wouldn't know how to elaborate my thoughts, not even in italian  XD

 

When you put all these leaks together, it doesn't make sense but that's what was said about truede's last years spoilers, which turned out to be true mostly.

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19 minutes ago, Lord Friendzone said:

When you put all these leaks together, it doesn't make sense but that's what was said about truede's last years spoilers, which turned out to be true mostly.

Yeah probably for me it's confusing 'cause it's all new, I'm a newbie.  Last year I was sort of spoiler free.

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1 hour ago, Lord Friendzone said:

When you put all these leaks together, it doesn't make sense but that's what was said about truede's last years spoilers, which turned out to be true mostly.

except Truede was coherent, never contradicted himself, never said someone, who ended up appearing, wouldn't (the redditor claimed Edmure wouldn't be back), his spoilers weren't so far out there, weren't that many (suspicious given the redditor claimed he was only told about them by a friend of a friend of a writer. how did he remember them all and in detail?), he didn't claim to know every feeling and gesture  between characters (how does the redditor know that without actually seeing the scenes?  they haven't even been filmed yet lol he didn't even read the script himself. and what's in the script doesn't always end up in the finished product anyway) while admitting to  having no information or details regarding some other actual big plotlines etc

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1 hour ago, Evarei said:

except Truede was coherent, never contradicted himself, never said someone, who ended up appearing, wouldn't (the redditor claimed Edmure wouldn't be back), his spoilers weren't so far out there, weren't that many (suspicious given the redditor claimed he was only told about them by a friend of a friend of a writer. how did he remember them all and in detail?), he didn't claim to know every feeling and gesture  between characters (how does the redditor know that without actually seeing the scenes?  they haven't even been filmed yet lol he didn't even read the script himself. and what's in the script doesn't always end up in the finished product anyway) while admitting to  having no information or details regarding some other actual big plotlines etc

Truede also seemed to be skilled in GOT world. This one is chaos but some truth in this. Things at least somehow adds up in certain points. Emotions doesn't seems to be that part where we should believe him because as you said from the scripts you can't detect it. But Jon and Dany meeting, Jon getting close to a dragon, making eyes on each other or fall in love seems legitimate and believable. Show and books foreshadowed it plenty times.

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I'm curious as to what makes him leave Winterfell. Winter is coming and he leaves his sister with LF and his bannermen alone in Winterfell? What if WW come? He doesn't really need to leave Winterfell/the North unless...something happens that leaves him little alternative. Does LF, knowing of his true lineage, out him to Sansa and the bannerman as a Targaryen? And then duly betrayed, Jon leaves WF but with his loyal hand Davos by his side? 

Perhaps he goes South to meet with Dany to find out additional answers about Rhaegar and to provide aid in the fight against the WW?

 

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The Wall still stands, they still count on it to protect them and thwart any possible attack for the time being. At this point why would they consider it a high possibility of The Wall crumbling the moment WWs reach it (it was built for that reason)? Why would they think WWs may reach it in the next week or so? The last time we saw Night King he was farther North than he had been in season 5, they've lived for thousands of years, they're not in a hurry. Jon needs Dragonglass and allies to mobilize the Realm, not just North. They still have time to make preparations. To be productive Jon needs to act, not sit on his ass tucked in Winterfell playing political games with Sansa and Littlefinger. He's a leader and doer, he doesn't just hand out orders. Thank God the worst scenario is not coming to pass.

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On 22/10/2016 at 7:46 PM, Evarei said:

The Wall still stands, they still count on it to protect them and thwart any possible attack for the time being. At this point why would they consider it a high possibility of The Wall crumbling the moment WWs reach it (it was built for that reason)? Why would they think WWs may reach it in the next week or so? The last time we saw Night King he was farther North than he had been in season 5, they've lived for thousands of years, they're not in a hurry. Jon needs Dragonglass and allies to mobilize the Realm, not just North. They still have time to make preparations. To be productive Jon needs to act, not sit on his ass tucked in Winterfell playing political games with Sansa and Littlefinger. He's a leader and doer, he doesn't just hand out orders. Thank God the worst scenario is not coming to pass.

Yep Jon needs to be sure that he is not fighting a war on 2 fronts that means engaging in diplomacy with the south, his people would never allow him to negotiate with the Lannisters or Euron's Ironborn faction but they would probably entertain opening relations with the Dany and her allies in the Reach, Dorne and Yara's Ironborn faction. At this stage it would probably be in the form of a non-aggression pact.

I see them agreeing on the big picture (Northern Independence) but it will the the details of the Riverlands and the Vale that may be the sticking point. Does the King in the North come with a claim to over-lordship of the Riverlands, What is the Vales status is it independent? If not which Monarch does it fall under? Were the Vale lords at Jon's acclamation asserting support of Jon's dominion over them or just acknowledging his preeminence in the North?

The interesting thing is does Jon come to her as Ned Stark's bastard or as Rhaegar Targaryen's trueborn heir.

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I think he will offer to kneel once Dany has conquered Westeros (why should he kneel before she has actually conquered Westeros?) and as long as she helps him with the Whitewalkers. Once these have happened then he will kneel. If one of them dies fighting the Whitewalkers then he'll never end up kneeling and fulfilling the foreshadowing made by Tormund in Season 4 Ep 10.

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One thing to consider that a few others have brought up is this, if Jon kneels to Dany before she conquers Westeros they are no longer equals or partners. If Dany decides that before she deals with the WW and the wall Jon must assemble his norther army and help liberate KIngslanding and the Westerlands then he duty bound to do so. Kneeling means swearing fealty as in Dany is in charge. Jon would be in rebellion if he refused and it would look very very bad for him. He has to be absolutely sure that she is worthy of being queen.

It would be like joining the army and being told to fight in Iraq when you signed up to fight in Afghanistan you might have joined because you thought you would be fighting in Afghanistan but if the army says fight in Iraq you must.

Finally Jon is not Robb his position is much more precarious he doesn't have a sturdy claim to fall back on. He was essentially elected and his power by default requires the good will of the Lords of the North, if he upsets them they could easily turn away from them. And the lords of the north want independence and Jon agreed with them. If he didn't he should have rejected the title King in the North and instead said he would be Lord Paramount of the North. But he agreed to Northern independence he can't change his mind so quickly.

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On 10/21/2016 at 5:12 PM, Lord Friendzone said:

When you put all these leaks together, it doesn't make sense but that's what was said about truede's last years spoilers, which turned out to be true mostly.

I don't think the latest reddit "leaks" are comparable to the truede leaks. I don't see how the trude leaks wouldn't have made sense and don't recall many people saying that about them. (other than perhaps a few Sansa fans that desperately wanted her to be queen) These S7 "leaks" claim some things that sound implausible, if not flatly stupid. Its as if they were written by somebody who doesn't know any of the backstory and doesn't remember what happened prior to season 6. I don't think it's possible for some of the things they allege to make sense in any context.

 

Spoiler

e.g. Jon supposedly having the same name as his brother - Aegon

 

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according to reddit
 

Spoiler

 

Towards the end of the season Jon and Dany will have a scene just the two of them where Jon talks about being a motherless outcast, and the entire time in the scene you'll just hear Jon's voice as the camera will zoom in on Dany's eyes as she listens and she will interrupt him and tell him he never has to kneel to her. But Jon will choose to do so and do it anyway.

 

 

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11 hours ago, blckp said:

according to reddit
 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Towards the end of the season Jon and Dany will have a scene just the two of them where Jon talks about being a motherless outcast, and the entire time in the scene you'll just hear Jon's voice as the camera will zoom in on Dany's eyes as she listens and she will interrupt him and tell him he never has to kneel to her. But Jon will choose to do so and do it anyway.

 

 

That just sounds laughably ridiculous to me. I hope it isn't true.

 

Edit: It sounds like there's actually questionable quotes being passed around in regards to how the situation is resolved, as it's coming second hand. The leaker (Awayforthelads) didn't actually say anything publicly about how that scene is resolved, but somebody claimed they got a PM from the leaker that explained the scene in more detail.

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