Cephalophore Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 Arya's plot armour seems pretty damn thick. Didn't GRRM's wife say that she'd divorce him if Arya gets killed off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Protagoras Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 Sansa and Bran are basically bulletproof. Sansa need to have some king of impact before she dies, unless GRRM has been trolling us over all those chapters. And she isn´t close to that yet so it makes sense she will survive the books and apply her skills in the "new world". Bran is basically a demi-god and is also in training to use his powers. His arc isn´t remotely over since he need to confront his destiny, which so far hasn´t happened. Aryas arc has progressed further (and as well as a death prophecy on her) so I can see her die. Sam do certainly have good odds for a secondary character. He could be seen as "training" to becoming a master and even he hasn´t made that much of a impact. Still - he is a secondary character, which makes this harder. Neither of the "big three" have good odds tbh. They are all too much in the "thick of it" and have had long progression already. I think at least one of them will die, maybe two. I think that will be Jon, but it certainly wouldn´t surprise me if Daenerys or Tyrion bite the bullet instead/as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a black swan Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 49 minutes ago, Cephalophore said: Arya's plot armour seems pretty damn thick. Didn't GRRM's wife say that she'd divorce him if Arya gets killed off? Yup that is true. Arya is also important to GRRM as well. His favorite character after Tyrion. Here are some of the many glimpses into GRRM's thoughts on Arya: On Arya and Braavos: He said that he LOVES to write about Arya’s adventures in Braavos. He said he could write whole novels about. That received a huge applause until he joked that maybe he could put off Winds to do so. ~ “I do have my favorite characters, of course. Tyrion, Arya, Jon … but I love them all. Even the ones I kill.” -GRRM ~ A part from Tyron, is there any female character you love more than the others? George: Oh, probably Arya. ~ Now he was asked, not about favorites exactly, but who he enjoys writing for the most? GRRM said Tyrion and Arya. ~ George did an interview where he was complimented on his 2 most popular, compelling and vivid characters in Tyrion and Dany. George disagrees and names Arya & Jon instead. ~ GRRM's favorite line in the books is often repeated (denoting its importance later on) a line Jon tells Arya when they last meet, "Stick 'em with the pointy end." << This line comes up several times in both Jon & Arya's POVs. ~ George is asked: Will Arya have any significant impact on events later in the series? No comment. - GRRM Eeeek! Not giving anything away! ~ Just another teasing quote from George: Any particular storyline is enjoying right now? He said that Dany's storyline is emerging in increasing importance. But he is struggling with the Meereenese Knot. So he can't say he is enjoying it. But he is really enjoying writing Arya's story. He could write an entire novel of it. He could write an entire YA novel about her... (at this point the audience started cheering and yelling for him to "DO IT!") ~ George loved all the Tywin/Arya scenes in the show and wished he could have thought of pairing them in the books as well. Another wonderful scene George appreciated that D&D wrote just for the show but he wished was in the books: ”[Game of Thrones showrunners] David [Benioff] and Dan [Weiss] added a beautiful touch to that, [at Ned's execution], which wasn’t in the books, which was Ned recognizing Yoren in the crowd and recognizing Arya and whispering ‘Baelor.’ That little touch is not in the books, but I wish it had been in the books because it was a great addition.” GRRM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 21 hours ago, Lord Lyman said: Robert Arryn. He's been so heavily hinted to die, that the twist will be he lives. Bran, Jon, Sansa, Davos, Sam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a black swan Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 37 minutes ago, Protagoras said: Aryas arc has progressed further (and as well as a death prophecy on her) so I can see her die. This might be worth a read: http://forbloodandwine.tumblr.com/post/150835233789/a-lot-of-people-in-the-fandom-seem-to-believe-that It completely breaks down that so called "prophecy". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bent branch Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 22 hours ago, Genuine Canadian said: Valar morghulis. No but seriously, all I know is at least one Stark is going to survive. I have no idea who it'll be though. Out of all of them, I don't like Arya's chances because of Jon's "they will find your body with a needle still locked tight between your frozen fingers", Ned's "when the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies but the pack survives", and she'll probably keep putting herself in dangerous situations. Also she seems the least likely to become Lady / Lord of Winterfell. Tyrek Lannister has a good chance at surviving too I guess. You know, I actually take that as foreshadowing that Sansa will die. Arya has made herself a new pack through every situation she has found herself in. On the other hand, Sansa has consistently failed to form a new pack for herself. She always chooses to trust those whose intentions she should question. Currently, I consider Sansa to be on her own since LF is completely untrustworthy. To make matters worse, Sansa doesn't seem to realize just how bad her situation is. The one person who I think will survive until the end is Bran. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Protagoras Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 7 hours ago, DutchArya said: This might be worth a read: http://forbloodandwine.tumblr.com/post/150835233789/a-lot-of-people-in-the-fandom-seem-to-believe-that It completely breaks down that so called "prophecy". "Completely breaks down" is not the words I would use, but I agree that not all prophecies will be real ones. Yet I would be careful in interpreting GRRM and Aryas arc in a certain way. This might indeed happen, but there might be a more tragic end. Because when it all comes down to it, Arya have been far more proactive than her siblings, have formed her destiny in a greater way and therefore her arc has been progressed further than the other kids, which makes it more literary ok from a storywise perspective to kill her off. In her future, she will in some way have to confront herself and the Faceless men. She also need to connect with her starkness. I very much disagree that Arya has been reborn. She is not there yet - Needle, while a strong memory, is not the symbolic connection she need to "reconnect" to. She need to reconnect to Nymeria - the connection she herself severed and that attachment was a part of her self. And that is why her new packs ultimately have failed - She sees people as obstacles and problems and her ruthless pragmatism destroys her attempts to create meaningful, valuable relations. Now - I am not saying that she is likely to die. Not Victarion likely, not JonCon likely nor even Jon likely. But she is certainly more likely than Sansa, Bran, Davos and Sam. Of course she will return to Westeros, but I see her story with the Faceless men take the most of WoW and not (like others seem to think) be over quickly. She will do quite a lot of assassinations for them first. And I certainly can see Arya killed in the end of Dreams of Spring or her rejoining the Faceless men - because in the end it will be hard to give Arya a happy ending that won´t feel forced. She doesn´t want things others do and will feel cloistered by a court life. She will be forced in a greater way than her siblings to carve out her own happiness or die trying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordImp Posted October 17, 2016 Author Share Posted October 17, 2016 8 hours ago, Jon's Queen Consort said: Bran, Jon, Sansa, Davos, Sam. If Jon survives . You think he will be King ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordImp Posted October 17, 2016 Author Share Posted October 17, 2016 44 minutes ago, Protagoras said: "Completely breaks down" is not the words I would use, but I agree that not all prophecies will be real ones. Yet I would be careful in interpreting GRRM and Aryas arc in a certain way. This might indeed happen, but there might be a more tragic end. Because when it all comes down to it, Arya have been far more proactive than her siblings, have formed her destiny in a greater way and therefore her arc has been progressed further than the other kids, which makes it more literary ok from a storywise perspective to kill her off. In her future, she will in some way have to confront herself and the Faceless men. She also need to connect with her starkness. I very much disagree that Arya has been reborn. She is not there yet - Needle, while a strong memory, is not the symbolic connection she need to "reconnect" to. She need to reconnect to Nymeria - the connection she herself severed and that attachment was a part of her self. And that is why her new packs ultimately have failed - She sees people as obstacles and problems and her ruthless pragmatism destroys her attempts to create meaningful, valuable relations. Now - I am not saying that she is likely to die. Not Victarion likely, not JonCon likely nor even Jon likely. But she is certainly more likely than Sansa, Bran, Davos and Sam. Of course she will return to Westeros, but I see her story with the Faceless men take the most of WoW and not (like others seem to think) be over quickly. She will do quite a lot of assassinations for them first. And I certainly can see Arya killed in the end of Dreams of Spring or her rejoining the Faceless men - because in the end it will be hard to give Arya a happy ending that won´t feel forced. She doesn´t want things others do and will feel cloistered by a court life. She will be forced in a greater way than her siblings to carve out her own happiness or die trying. I am starting to belive that Arya survives the whole thing and becomes Queen . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a black swan Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 1 hour ago, Protagoras said: because in the end it will be hard to give Arya a happy ending that won´t feel forced. She doesn´t want things others do and will feel cloistered by a court life. She will be forced in a greater way than her siblings to carve out her own happiness or die trying. The kind of life Ned described would not be Arya's happy ending. It would force her to act and wear another "face", a public "face". Her freedoms curtailed in ways that little Arya talking to Ned would have absolutely hated. But if you notice, Arya has spent a lot of her book pages in a servant role, giving up her freedom and doing what is necessary. Look how Mercy is so efficient, hard working as she slaves around doing everything for everyone. The HoBW, in its rigid ways would be even more "cloistered" to Arya than a court would. Yet she excels. Arya survived in complete darkness while navigating Braavos like it was the back her hand. She has learned to hold her tongue, read people and see with her eyes truly - disarming the lies and preconceptions. Arya is also a very social person, she listens and interacts and enjoys company in almost all forms. What matters most to Arya? She is evolving and when she does leave the FM it will be a huge moment of personal growth. Her thought processes and how she gets to that point is what interests me the most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a black swan Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 1 hour ago, LordImp said: I am starting to belive that Arya survives the whole thing and becomes Queen . Can you share your thought process? I'm interested to know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordImp Posted October 18, 2016 Author Share Posted October 18, 2016 19 minutes ago, DutchArya said: Can you share your thought process? I'm interested to know! In the first book Ned said to Arya that she will marry a King or something . And Jon and Arya has a special bond , of all the Stark siblings they are the ones who are closest. So im thinking that Jon becomes King and Arya his Queen. Yeah kinda weird because they grew up as siblings . But i dont think thats gonna stop GRRM . Of course this is just my wishful thinking , but i belive it's a possibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Protagoras Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 14 hours ago, LordImp said: I am starting to belive that Arya survives the whole thing and becomes Queen . But Arya doesn´t want to become queen. Such an ending would feel forced and will basically mean that Aryas opinions and views will be secondary to the "reward" she is getting. Like Ciri from Witcher 3, such an end would be tragic since its not what she seek in her life. Arya wants somewhere to belong, but she want it on her terms. She want freedom over herself, not power over others. I see no bittersweet in such an ending - only tragedy. 12 hours ago, DutchArya said: The kind of life Ned described would not be Arya's happy ending. It would force her to act and wear another "face", a public "face". Her freedoms curtailed in ways that little Arya talking to Ned would have absolutely hated. But if you notice, Arya has spent a lot of her book pages in a servant role, giving up her freedom and doing what is necessary. Look how Mercy is so efficient, hard working as she slaves around doing everything for everyone. The HoBW, in its rigid ways would be even more "cloistered" to Arya than a court would. Yet she excels. Arya survived in complete darkness while navigating Braavos like it was the back her hand. She has learned to hold her tongue, read people and see with her eyes truly - disarming the lies and preconceptions. Arya is also a very social person, she listens and interacts and enjoys company in almost all forms. What matters most to Arya? She is evolving and when she does leave the FM it will be a huge moment of personal growth. Her thought processes and how she gets to that point is what interests me the most. But the HoBW is a world where she can do (at least for now) what she want. In many ways it already represent her happy ending. She is not stuck in the traditional gender roles but in a world where the ambitions the Faceless men has, match Aryas idea of her life much better. She feel that she fits there - thats why she excels, because she likes what she is trained in. She wasn´t bad at sewing because she was clumsy - she was bad in it because she didn´t like to do it. And the same goes fo court life. Big Arya isn´t really that much of a change from little Arya because both want to do things they like. And for Arya to get the ending she want will mean to break quite a lot with the standards of Westeros so tbh, I think Arya should return to Braavos after the series is over (if she survives it). I think the rawness and the opportunities of such a climate will be to her advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonmoon Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 32 minutes ago, Protagoras said: But Arya doesn´t want to become queen. Such an ending would feel forced and will basically mean that Aryas opinions and views will be secondary to the "reward" she is getting. Like Ciri from Witcher 3, such an end would be tragic since its not what she seek in her life. Arya wants somewhere to belong, but she want it on her terms. She want freedom over herself, not power over others. I see no bittersweet in such an ending - only tragedy. But the HoBW is a world where she can do (at least for now) what she want. In many ways it already represent her happy ending. She is not stuck in the traditional gender roles but in a world where the ambitions the Faceless men has, match Aryas idea of her life much better. She feel that she fits there - thats why she excels, because she likes what she is trained in. She wasn´t bad at sewing because she was clumsy - she was bad in it because she didn´t like to do it. And the same goes fo court life. Big Arya isn´t really that much of a change from little Arya because both want to do things they like. And for Arya to get the ending she want will mean to break quite a lot with the standards of Westeros so tbh, I think Arya should return to Braavos after the series is over (if she survives it). I think the rawness and the opportunities of such a climate will be to her advantage. I totally agree with you. I just don't see how people who love arya want her to be the queen. That's not what arya wants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sleeper Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 Arya wants contradictory things: to belong and to live and act on her own terms. These things intersect without compromise in one place only: in charge. Whether it of her business, her own ship, the faceless men or of her own kingdom. If she dies I think odds are she will go to it with open eyes to serve her purpose. I'm pretty sure Jon and Dany are gonners in their own way. There messianic allusions to both of them. Messiahs die. I'm thinking Jon might remain as some sort of undead guardian waiting for a future when the threat might rise again, a sleeper to be woken. Tyrion I think is fifty fifty. I think he will either go down in a blaze or win everything he thinks he wants but be a miserable drunk. I think if House Stark is reconstituted, Bran will be the King. I think these two are entwined and I consider a fairly good bet. He is after all shaping up to be the metaphysical puppet master. Literally. Sansa is a survivor in her own way and she is too valuable to kill, so I think she has good odds. Not a safe bet though. I think she's got major upheavals coming her way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scott Malkinson Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 Stannis, Cersei, fAegon, Quentyn, Tommen... http://gifs-for-the-masses.tumblr.com/post/49229708878 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a black swan Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 1 hour ago, Protagoras said: But Arya doesn´t want to become queen. Such an ending would feel forced and will basically mean that Aryas opinions and views will be secondary to the "reward" she is getting. Like Ciri from Witcher 3, such an end would be tragic since its not what she seek in her life. Arya wants somewhere to belong, but she want it on her terms. She want freedom over herself, not power over others. I see no bittersweet in such an ending - only tragedy. I dunno why you think it's a "reward". ? It's where the story is going and it does fit what GRRM has chosen to do to the character. Especially if we consider Arya beyond the 9 year old in Book 1 people seem to only consider. It's not like she is gonna grow up, mature, have new interests, and change her world views even by the slightest. Like who even does that? /s. Again, I dunno if I included this question yet... but why do you think Arya is destined to get the life she always wanted? Because yo Get to be free and not sacrifice anything if she lives beyond the war? It's bittersweet because she gets to serve her family and realm and do some good while at the same time being forced to be the "Arya Stark" the public want to see and society demands. She has had to give up her freedoms but she can still use her skills and be useful in a lot of ways. Like the Kindly Man said, she wears these faces as lightly as one would wear a gown, "underneath she is still Arya Stark". That is bittersweet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philokles Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 The two things Arya wants most is respect and recognition for her achievements in her own right, rather than reflected glory from male relatives, and to do what is best for her pack - a bitter-sweet ending for her would give one but not the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a black swan Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 1 hour ago, Moonmoon said: I totally agree with you. I just don't see how people who love arya want her to be the queen. That's not what arya wants. Since when does anyone "love" the idea? *looks around* And since when do GRRM's characters get what they want? lol How does that even make sense in the asoiaf world. Especially with the Stark children in particular. None of them are getting the life they wanted. Why is that any different with Arya? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonmoon Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 32 minutes ago, DutchArya said: Since when does anyone "love" the idea? *looks around* And since when do GRRM's characters get what they want? lol How does that even make sense in the asoiaf world. Especially with the Stark children in particular. None of them are getting the life they wanted. Why is that any different with Arya? Ummm...I said love "arya" not the idea. So you think everyone will get a bad ending? I hope grrm is not that terrible writer. Why do you think arya would end up becoming a queen anyway? Maybe i missed something you noticed? Arya is one of my fav and this idea never made sense. "No one is getting what they want" is not a strong point to support this idea. It's like saying sansa will end up becoming a knight lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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