Which characters has the biggest chance to survive the series ?

[a black swan]

45 minutes ago, Horse of Kent said:

The two things Arya wants most is respect and recognition for her achievements in her own right, rather than reflected glory from male relatives, and to do what is best for her pack - a bitter-sweet ending for her would give one but not the other.

I agree. She will have to sacrifice just like everyone else will. I think with everything she has gone through since escaping KL; Arya can suffer for a greater goal. Doing what's best for her pack (Arya has referred to the North as her pack) would be her fate. 

[a black swan]

5 minutes ago, Moonmoon said:

Ummm...I said love "arya" not the idea. 

So you think everyone will get a bad ending? I hope grrm is not that terrible writer. Why do you think arya would end up becoming a queen anyway? Maybe i missed something you noticed? Arya is one of my fav and this idea never made sense. "No one is getting what they want" is not a strong point to support this idea. It's like saying sansa will end up becoming a knight lol

Not a bad ending. Just not the life they all expected. Having characters grow with the story is a strength as a writer. Having characters standstill, frozen and incapable of evolving is just rubbish writing. Some fans can't seem to let Arya grow up or change, even though that's exactly what's happening on the pages. 

As an Arya fan, I would encourage you to read this meta explaining a lot of what I'm saying here.

 

Arya Stark: Leadership, Queendom, and Symbolism - http://ashotofjac.tumblr.com/post/143186696353

Done With Wooden Teeth: Meta Masterlist - http://donewithwoodenteeth.tumblr.com/meta-masterlist

 

This forum doesn't exactly spend much time positing what happens to Arya beyond just dying or becoming a FM or just going on a killing spree...etc. Just really *yawn* predictions that don't allow much exploration. Kinda like what most people do to Bran and his future life in a Tree. Other characters are destined to achieve so much more and must do it all because then what was the point of their character? That kind of rational seems denied to certain Starks and reserved solely for others.  

 

[LordImp]

3 hours ago, Protagoras said:

But Arya doesn´t want to become queen. Such an ending would feel forced and will basically mean that Aryas opinions and views will be secondary to the "reward" she is getting. Like Ciri from Witcher 3, such an end would be tragic since its not what she seek in her life. Arya wants somewhere to belong, but she want it on her terms. She want freedom over herself, not power over others. I see no bittersweet in such an ending - only tragedy. 

But the HoBW is a world where she can do (at least for now) what she want. In many ways it already represent her happy ending. She is not stuck in the traditional gender roles but in a world where the ambitions the Faceless men has, match Aryas idea of her life much better. She feel that she fits there - thats why she excels, because she likes what she is trained in. She wasn´t bad at sewing because she was clumsy - she was bad in it because she didn´t like to do it. And the same goes fo court life. Big Arya isn´t really that much of a change from little Arya because both want to do things they like. And for Arya to get the ending she want will mean to break quite a lot with the standards of Westeros so tbh, I think Arya should return to Braavos after the series is over (if she survives it). I think the rawness and the opportunities of such a climate will be to her advantage. 

Ned didnt want to become Hand of the King either , but he became hand of the King. 

[a black swan]

16 hours ago, LordImp said:

In the first book Ned said to Arya that she will marry a King or something . And Jon and Arya has a special bond , of all the Stark siblings they are the ones who are closest. 

So im thinking that Jon becomes King and Arya his Queen. Yeah kinda weird because they grew up as siblings . But i dont think thats gonna stop GRRM . 

Of course this is just my wishful thinking , but i belive it's a possibility. 

Definitely a possibility!

Check out some of the great meta essays I linked to in this thread that goes into more detail.

 

[NOT A TARG I SWEAR]

On 10/17/2016 at 9:19 AM, Cephalophore said:

Arya's plot armour seems pretty damn thick. Didn't GRRM's wife say that she'd divorce him if Arya gets killed off?

The thing about plot armor is it can be removed at any point once the author gets a character into a certain position within the story. Right now Arya is safer because she has been so isolated and it makes sense that her development would eventually lead her to have to have more of an impact on the overall story or other main characters before being removed. At a certain point that likely won't be the case anymore and she is certainly a character that has been put into a position where a tragic death could be in the cards. 

[Little Scribe of Naath]

2 hours ago, The Sleeper said:

Arya wants contradictory things: to belong and to live and act on her own terms. These things intersect without compromise in one place only: in charge.

Exactly. She badly wants to belong, to a pack, and yet wants to live life on her own terms - the chief way she can do that is to be in charge of a group of people, much like her wolf, and her wolf's namesake, The author has hung blatant foreshadowing on the wall in this respect.

Even Catelyn, a character who Arya is very deeply connected to and parallels very closely, after her resurrection as LSH is now the leader of a band of outlaws.

[Moonmoon]

42 minutes ago, DutchArya said:

Not a bad ending. Just not the life they all expected. Having characters grow with the story is a strength as a writer. Having characters standstill, frozen and incapable of evolving is just rubbish writing. Some fans can't seem to let Arya grow up or change, even though that's exactly what's happening on the pages. 

As an Arya fan, I would encourage you to read this meta explaining a lot of what I'm saying here.

 

Arya Stark: Leadership, Queendom, and Symbolism - http://ashotofjac.tumblr.com/post/143186696353

Done With Wooden Teeth: Meta Masterlist - http://donewithwoodenteeth.tumblr.com/meta-masterlist

 

This forum doesn't exactly spend much time positing what happens to Arya beyond just dying or becoming a FM or just going on a killing spree...etc. Just really *yawn* predictions that don't allow much exploration. Kinda like what most people do to Bran and his future life in a Tree. Other characters are destined to achieve so much more and must do it all because then what was the point of their character? That kind of rational seems denied to certain Starks and reserved solely for others.  

 

Did i say characters should be stagnant? Nope. I was talking about their endgame. A character doesn't have to end up doing what he never wished for to show "development". A character can go through tons of development and still choose the live they once dreamed of. The metas you linked didn't give me any new perspective. I already know about her leadership qualities and potential. I can totally see her leading a group of people for a noble cause. But queen of westeros? No. How will she even win the throne? What will motivate her to go for it in the first place? I just don't see her choosing that sort of restricted life style on her own. So what circumstances will push her towards it? 

And I don't care what other posters predict about arya's future. That has nothing to do with me.

[Protagoras]

5 hours ago, DutchArya said:

 

I dunno why you think it's a "reward". ? It's where the story is going and it does fit what GRRM has chosen to do to the character. Especially if we consider Arya beyond the 9 year old in Book 1 people seem to only consider. It's not like she is gonna grow up, mature, have new interests, and change her world views even by the slightest. Like who even does that? /s.

Again, I dunno if I included this question yet... but why do you think Arya is destined to get the life she always wanted? Because yo Get to be free and not sacrifice anything if she lives beyond the war? 

It's bittersweet because she gets to serve her family and realm and do some good while at the same time being forced to be the "Arya Stark" the public want to see and society demands. She has had to give up her freedoms but she can still use her skills and be useful in a lot of ways. Like the Kindly Man said, she wears these faces as lightly as one would wear a gown, "underneath she is still Arya Stark". That is bittersweet.  

 

 

Well, we were talking about a happy ending for Arya right? Or even a bittersweet one, right? Certainly things happen in life, but why would Arya choose such a life at all? She certainly have the the power to simply leave and as has been said - she wants to belong and to live and act on her own terms. The bittersweet ending is that she wont get everything, but something. Going back to court life as queen fulfills neither. She certainly won´t have freedom nor would she belong, since she knows that others will judge her and maybe even mock her for her deficiencies and while she certainly could act in a servant role, giving up her freedom - it would be the same way if she was queen. Everything is just an act - and for what? So Jon could get his "prize"? We know Arya as being the fierce, wild stark with the 'wolfs blood', she kills her enemy's with her own hands, she travels all the time and is in constant disputes with others. This is the character I fell in love with. Now - if she was a Queen she would become the lady she never wanted to become and throw her personality out the window. Its a complete character assassination. And as for Jon being her husband - Jon is her freaking brother (Blood is secondary to that they have grown up as brother and sister)! And not everyone are like the Lannisters. All he wants to do is ruffle her hair and call her "little sister;". Or at least I hope so...

Braavos, while not perfect, gives freedom for Arya to act on her own terms - in a way she never could in Westeros. She was more happy there than back home and while certainly her relation with her siblings aren´t useless, they are not simply not worth sacrificing her future for. Because, lets be honest here, Arya isn´t needed. There is no greater good she need to assist. And while her family might be in problem now, that won´t always be the case. She can leave when the problems have been resolved. They really cant force her - easy for her to take a new face, new identity, quiet life as some innkeep, or sellsword, or farmer, or or or...

And for those that want to use Neds words as foreshadowing - remember Aryas counter-words. And she is one of the main characters, not Ned. She was the one with agency in that scene. She was the one telling him No. THAT´S foreshadowing if anything. Arya is not going to abandon her past history just because "people tend to change". Yeah, and most tend to change back to what they were or very little at all, especially in the bigger issues. She has a bigger destiny than to marry some lord or king and hang around a castle somewhere.

4 hours ago, LordImp said:

Ned didnt want to become Hand of the King either , but he became hand of the King. 

This is not the start of a new book serie, this is the end of it. Somehow Aryas story must end. And the three most likely options are (1) - Dead, (2) - A faceless man or (3) - The new master of whisperers. Queen or wife to a lord is far less likely outcome and tbh, I (as a massive Arya fan) prefer Arya dead than that - just as I prefered Witcher 3 with a dead Ciri rather than a Ciri being queen and unhappy. Still a better outcome.

[Wrl6199]

Tyrion Lannister, Daenerys Targaryen, and three of the children of Winterfell, Arya, Bran, and the bastard Jon Snow. 

[LordImp]

32 minutes ago, Protagoras said:

Well, we were talking about a happy ending for Arya right? Or even a bittersweet one, right? Certainly things happen in life, but why would Arya choose such a life at all? She certainly have the the power to simply leave and as has been said - she wants to belong and to live and act on her own terms. The bittersweet ending is that she wont get everything, but something. Going back to court life as queen fulfills neither. She certainly won´t have freedom nor would she belong, since she knows that others will judge her and maybe even mock her for her deficiencies and while she certainly could act in a servant role, giving up her freedom - it would be the same way if she was queen. Everything is just an act - and for what? So Jon could get his "prize"? We know Arya as being the fierce, wild stark with the 'wolfs blood', she kills her enemy's with her own hands, she travels all the time and is in constant disputes with others. This is the character I fell in love with. Now - if she was a Queen she would become the lady she never wanted to become and throw her personality out the window. Its a complete character assassination. And as for Jon being her husband - Jon is her freaking brother (Blood is secondary to that they have grown up as brother and sister)! And not everyone are like the Lannisters. All he wants to do is ruffle her hair and call her "little sister;". Or at least I hope so...

Braavos, while not perfect, gives freedom for Arya to act on her own terms - in a way she never could in Westeros. She was more happy there than back home and while certainly her relation with her siblings aren´t useless, they are not simply not worth sacrificing her future for. Because, lets be honest here, Arya isn´t needed. There is no greater good she need to assist. And while her family might be in problem now, that won´t always be the case. She can leave when the problems have been resolved. They really cant force her - easy for her to take a new face, new identity, quiet life as some innkeep, or sellsword, or farmer, or or or...

And for those that want to use Neds words as foreshadowing - remember Aryas counter-words. And she is one of the main characters, not Ned. She was the one with agency in that scene. She was the one telling him No. THAT´S foreshadowing if anything. Arya is not going to abandon her past history just because "people tend to change". Yeah, and most tend to change back to what they were or very little at all, especially in the bigger issues. She has a bigger destiny than to marry some lord or king and hang around a castle somewhere.

This is not the start of a new book serie, this is the end of it. Somehow Aryas story must end. And the three most likely options are (1) - Dead, (2) - A faceless man or (3) - The new master of whisperers. Queen or wife to a lord is far less likely outcome and tbh, I (as a massive Arya fan) prefer Arya dead than that - just as I prefered Witcher 3 with a dead Ciri rather than a Ciri being queen and unhappy. Still a better outcome.

Yes. But the one chapter in AGOT bothers me , i dont have the exact quote but is was something like this : You will marry a King and rule his castle . Somehow i think thats important .

 

And IMO it would be kinda funny. Arya dosent want to be a Queen but she ends up being Queen , Sansa wants to become a Queen but instead becomes a master player . 

[Marada78]

It seems that a lot of people thinks that bittersweet end means some important characters dying and that's all. But if it was for that the whole story is bittersweet, so I think that would be pointless for GRRM to say. 

My first guess would be for Jon&Dany dying not without an heir, and Tyrion on the throne ultimately as the guardian of the little child.

My second guess are some lasting changes to westeros that may go from separating the land in two at the neck, to some sort of political separation or even the birth of some form of republic. This would involve all the know character to die leaving only their legacy behind.

[Greywater-Watch]

On ‎17‎.‎10‎.‎2016 at 4:26 PM, DutchArya said:

This might be worth a read:

 http://forbloodandwine.tumblr.com/post/150835233789/a-lot-of-people-in-the-fandom-seem-to-believe-that

It completely breaks down that so called "prophecy".

Thank you for that, DutchArya - learned a new term: "sideshadowing"

[Greywater-Watch]

20 hours ago, Horse of Kent said:

The two things Arya wants most is respect and recognition for her achievements in her own right, rather than reflected glory from male relatives, and to do what is best for her pack - a bitter-sweet ending for her would give one but not the other.

Can you give any proof for this? I have the Impression, Arya does not care at all about recognition for her achievements.

Respect - yes, in a way. She hates people treating her with disrespect, but she does not seek to be respected actively. If someone around her does not care about her at all, this person would hardly end up on Arya's death list (as long as this person does not act cruelly to others, with Arya around).

[Philokles]

22 minutes ago, Greywater-Watch said:

Can you give any proof for this? I have the Impression, Arya does not care at all about recognition for her achievements.

Respect - yes, in a way. She hates people treating her with disrespect, but she does not seek to be respected actively. If someone around her does not care about her at all, this person would hardly end up on Arya's death list (as long as this person does not act cruelly to others, with Arya around).

Here is where Arya sets out most clearly what she would ideally like out of life:

Quote

"No," Ned said. He saw no use in lying to her. "Yet someday he may be the lord of a great holdfast and sit on the king's council. He might raise castles like Brandon the Builder, or sail a ship across the Sunset Sea, or enter your mother's Faith and become the High Septon." But he will never run beside his wolf again, he thought with a sadness too deep for words, or lie with a woman, or hold his own son in his arms.

Arya cocked her head to one side. "Can I be a king's councillor and build castles and become the High Septon?"

"You," Ned said, kissing her lightly on the brow, "will marry a king and rule his castle, and your sons will be knights and princes and lords and, yes, perhaps even a High Septon."

Arya screwed up her face. "No," she said, "that's Sansa." She folded up her right leg and resumed her balancing. Ned sighed and left her there. (Eddard V AGOT)

Although largely based on what Ned had told her were still options for Bran after his injuries, Arya pretty clearly wants something more out of life than being the wife of a King and mother to Princes (and thereby deriving her status from the men in her life) - explicitly rejecting that possibility*.

Not only that but from the five possibilities Ned presents she selects the three most prominent in public life. If she was purely interested in ruling over her own affairs then being the rightful lady of her own castle would be a sensible thing to ask about, and if it was adventure she was looking for then sailing across the Sunset Sea is probably the most you'd ever get. But instead it is King's Councillor, builder of castles (which given the fact it is in the plural would certainly come with some repute) and High Septon that she enquires about. This is not to say she wouldn't find happiness in the other roles, just that status is seen as a positive.

The other two weren't cut because she deems them to be unrealistic - as being given a small piece of land to rule over herself is probably the most likely especially if Ned's plans about the Gift were resuscitated, and High Septon the least (for the role is officially, not just customarily limited to men and she primarily worships the Old Gods instead).

* Though I do not believe, as some would say, that this means she has no interest in ever getting married or having kids - just that she does not want the entirety of her existence to be defined by and revolve around them. Also she is only 9 at this point, so hardly out of the ordinary.

 

Here she protests when Jon dares suggest that there is something strange about women being publicly recognised.

Quote

"The Lannisters are proud," Jon observed. "You'd think the royal sigil would be sufficient, but no. He makes his mother's House equal in honor to the king's."

"The woman is important too!" Arya protested. (Arya I AGOT)

 

And just in case you thought this was all limited to AGOT (though it is obviously more prevalent when planning for the future means more than just immediate survival)...

Quote

"Who could have done this thing, I wonder?"

"Arya of House Stark." She watched his eyes, his mouth, the muscles of his jaw. (Cat of the Canals AFFC)

Arya can never fit in with the FM as she refuses to shed her identity. For the most part she is able to hide this and mumble 'no-one' whenever the Kindly Man asks her who she is, but here she cannot stop herself taking the credit for killing Dareon. This is despite it being significantly worse than usual if she admitted to not being no-one, for not only is she thinking herself as Arya here, but acting upon it. Instead it is important to her that she is acknowledged to be acting as a proper Northerner should when encountering a Night's Watch deserter.

Yes, she has joined a guild where members are supposed to be no-one which would conflict with a desire for recognition, but she feels she has no place else to go and that tuition from the FM will help her acquire the skills to bring justice for her family - conflicting with her other priorities.

[YOVMO]

In my absolute wettest nerd dream the very last chapter is a Nymeria POV where Nymeria and Ghost (with remnants of Arya and Jon) are running through a totally depopulated Westeros after all human life has been snuffed out from it and spring starts anew

[SuperMario]

I've said it before on another post, but the only two characters I feel with absolute certainty will survive are Bran and Sam. Definitely other characters will survive, but those two will surely be among them. Everyone else is fair game.

[a black swan]

18 hours ago, Protagoras said:

~snip~

I just fundamentally disagree with pretty much everything you said. 

And that's not how foreshadowing works. What she says after Ned's statement is called misdirection which seems to have worked with some people.

Your 3 conclusions for Arya's fate is very short-sighted and just really meh. 

[Greywater-Watch]

18 hours ago, Protagoras said:

Braavos, while not perfect, gives freedom for Arya to act on her own terms - in a way she never could in Westeros. She was more happy there than back home and while certainly her relation with her siblings aren´t useless, they are not simply not worth sacrificing her future for. Because, lets be honest here, Arya isn´t needed. There is no greater good she need to assist. And while her family might be in problem now, that won´t always be the case. She can leave when the problems have been resolved. They really cant force her - easy for her to take a new face, new identity, quiet life as some innkeep, or sellsword, or farmer, or or or...

Wow:

Red: That is in contrast to all we know of Arya's feeling towards her family and her longing for home and her clinging to her identity as Arya.

Green: I cannot imagine that GRRM invests so much work in the storyline of a POV character just for nothing.

[Little Scribe of Naath]

To be frank, if there's any POV character who should be going back to where she came from, it's Dany. Unless GRRM throws all logic out of the window in the next book, Slaver's Bay isn't going to become a place with puppies and roses, all it's problems neatly solved by the time Dany decides to come to Westeros. Changing an entire society's culture takes generations, and I'd have major respect for Dany's character if she actually reverses her "Dragons plant no trees" philosophy and actually goes back to finish what she started.

 

8 minutes ago, Greywater-Watch said:

Red: That is in contrast to all we know of Arya's feeling towards her family and her longing for home and her clinging to her identity as Arya.

Exactly. And where are we getting this indication that Arya won't be needed? So basically Arya has zero skills other than just killing, is it? She should go back to Braavos and become a soulless assassin for some reason, because she has no other way to help her siblings, is it?

Makes tremendous sense, sure.

[a black swan]

27 minutes ago, Greywater-Watch said:

Wow:

Red: That is in contrast to all we know of Arya's feeling towards her family and her longing for home and her clinging to her identity as Arya.

Green: I cannot imagine that GRRM invests so much work in the storyline of a POV character just for nothing.

Exactly. Also, I think @Protagoras needs to re-read her Braavos chapters if he thinks that is Arya "happy". lol

The Green you highlighted... I mean  at all of it and the following text as well. You're right about it making no sense that GRRM invests in a character that serves no further purpose, is a throw-away, unless that's how @Protagoras sees Arya. I would think GRRM sees more worth in a character he seems to favor a great deal.