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Snippets from season 7


Arataniello

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@ Lord Friendzone: Wonderful comment regarding the Jon and Dany relationship I enjoyed reading all of it. I hate that so many Jon fans hate Dany and so many Dany fans hate Jon. I love them both (at least in the books). This hate is completely irrational. Dany has never done something evil against Jon and Jon has never done something against Dany. Dany fans have more reasons to hate Viserys, Mirri Maz Dur, Robert Baratheon, or the slavers in Meereen and Jon fans have more reasons to hate Aliser Thorne, Olly, Ramsey, LF, and Janos Slynt. 

@ kg1982: You clearly hate her, so I doubt any arguments will convince you, but I try it anyway.

If Dany counts as an evil dictator than so do all other monarchs in the history of Westeros. All of them had absolute power and many of them abused them in more severe ways than she did during her time in Meereen. BTW the Game of Thrones Wiki (which is sort of the shows equivalent of A wiki of ice and fire) currently lists the Kingdom of the North as a Feudal heriditary absolute monarchy, so Jon is currently an absolute monarch and so was Robb. 

Yes, burning people counts as something bad by our modern standards. But her anchestors Aegon, Visenya and Raenys burned 4000 men during the Field of Fire and Aegon  also Burned Harrenhal, still many people in Westeros and on this board judge him positively. Tywin did worse things than Dany did and still there are quite a few people who judge him positively. In our history you find many people who have done worse stuff and still some of them count as good rulers. If she is an evil dictator than Tywin and Aegon must have been super-mega-terrible-giagantic-evil dictator tyrrants. 

Dany has slaves among her advisers, the lowest of the lowest, that's like Robert Baratheon having someone from Flea Bottom among his advisers. 

She didn't force the Dothraki to kneel to her in Season 1, they did it voluntarily.

She didn't force the slavers to kneel to her in Season 3 she actually told the unsullied that they could leave if they wanted to do so, and they knelt voluntarily. 

She didn't force Tyrion to kneel to her in Season 6, he did it voluntarily and Asha didn't kneel to her either. 

Her advisers criticise which means that they don't fear that she will kill them for what they say and she values their opion. She even asked Missandei and Greyworm to speak their minds when they said that they were just slaves whose opinions don't count. She values and considers the opinions of other people an evil dictator wouldn't do that. 

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2 hours ago, Lord Friendzone said:

Not sure what you're aiming at? Probably incest or aunt/nephew. It's not because of Jon and Dany but it smply is not incest by laws of Westeros, just like Jon and Sansa or Arya as cousins.

I wouldn't really classified Dany as a dictator. We don't know the context... so for example Dany might give them positon of Warden of the North which is good position or Sansa could be Wardeness.

You get the impression that Jon is submissive boy toy. Then why Jon rejected her ask to kneel on the first meeting if  he's submissive boy toy? Why is Jon taking charge and leading expedition, Dany would hardly recomended that or why is Jon on the pics walking side by side and acting like they're equals?

Are Jorah, Tyrion or Ser Barristan blind followers? No. They have been very vocal and pointed out mistakes and how to handle situations. Dany listened to them. If they were blind followers, then they would never questioned her. Jorah questioned her deal with Kraznys, that dragons are not her babies and that she shouldn't trust Qarth and their people and that allies are in Westeros. Barristan wanted fair trial for Son of the Harpy, pointed out her fathers crimes. Tyrion also pointed out Aerys and that he wanted to do with King's Landing and also how to rule, Daario advised to re.open fighting pits.

They are equals now because Jon is ruling king himself, but if/when he marries Dany, he will submit to being her consort.

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2 hours ago, Lord Friendzone said:

I like them and it's the most logical outcome. Will there be happy ending? No. It will intense love affair and it was foreshadowed many times in the book or show so guys are just following George's work.

Thank you.  Why would Dany fans by so happy that this makes her look like some sort of whiny and bratty tyrant. 

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Daenerys is the character more cliche, stupid, boring and unbearable of all at least in the show in the books she may be an immature girl but the character of HBO is hateful, on the other hand if this plot trash reddit is true because it is a Total disappointment of season for me with pure fan service (jonerys) without any painful death who can hurt you Baelish death of snakes and sand? in short frame garbage will have to wait until the eighth season to see if something better occurs.
 

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2 minutes ago, Sansa Snow said:

They are equals now because Jon is ruling king himself, but if/when he marries Dany, he will submit to being her consort.

Correct.  Why would Dany want to give submissive boy toy any actual responsibility.  

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8 minutes ago, kg1982 said:

Correct.  Why would Dany want to give submissive boy toy any actual responsibility.  

In order to appease the North which is the biggest of the 7 kingdoms, ammounts to half of the territory of Westeros, is impossible to conquer in Winter, doesn't trust the crown anymore and would like to still have some power if they give up independence. 

When has she ever desired a submissive Boy Toys? Both men she had so far were strong men and she was actually a submissive to Drogo in the beggining. She doesn't seem to be interested in submissive Boy Toys, quite the contrary. 

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58 minutes ago, Lord Friendzone said:

http://www.justjared.com/photo-gallery/3793378/kit-harington-alfie-allen-game-of-thrones-set-photos-33/

The guy behind Theon look exactly like the one beating him up. Maybe it's because Theon let himself to be pushed around by Jon or simply because he abandoned Yara at the battle.

https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/57w3yw/my_awayforthelads_season_7_spoiler_timeline/

 

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Iam not your "Dear". That's first.

I don't know if you understand plain English but we don't know context and what happened. He refused her before but then he did it. Evil dictator? I know you hate her but your hatred is borderline irrational. But that comes from Jon fans or vice versa from Dany to Jon. I've seen it. Did she ever enjoyed burning people? No. Khals were abusing her and nobility of Meereen she didn'T enjoyed it but let's be honest these guy weren't completely innocent. Slavery is bad.

How is girl not an evil dictator? Kneeling even after refusing is still kneeling and being a submissive boy toy.  Submissive lieutenants to the evil dictator don't get any say in ruling they get to submissively do what the empresses says.  And burning people even bad people is not a good thing.  Sheesh, the US has gotten in trouble for torturing terrorists who want to murder innocent people because it is against the Geneva Convention.  And don't even get me started with the crap that Trump is proposing.  And yes, dictators are dictators.

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It doesn't mean submissive boy toy. You must've read different leak then. It doesn't mean she gets to push him around because as you see in pictures...they seem equal. Maybe you want it by the sound of it... you keep saying this. It's absolute and really tired of explaining to you. You want hating on her, oh poor Jon is her puppy and all those things, fine.

Kneeling literally means he isn't her equal and he gets to be pushed around by her and do what Dany asks him.  Being her puppy dog and submissively submitting to her as the twue qween of Westros mean exactly that.  You cannot "kneel" to someone and be their equal.  You cannot decide to be someone's equal or have an actual opinion or be anything more than some submissive boy toy that does what Mary Sue whats him to.  That is being her puppy dog.

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And again Barristan and Jorah criticized her throught her journey. So did Tyrion. Slaves worships up her and why not? She free them and it's their choice if they show her graditude. If it was Jon, would you be saying that? Probably not.

As I pointed out, Ser Barristan and Jorah are not willing to criticize her really because who they are.  Tyrion is but then actually submits to her like a little boy toy at the end of Season 6.  I dunno how is going to criticize her, perhaps Varys?

 

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2 minutes ago, Lady of Whisperers said:

In order to appease the North which is the biggest of the 7 kingdoms, ammounts to half of the territory of Westeros, is impossible to conquer in Winter, doesn't trust the crown anymore and would like to still have some power if they give up independence. 

When has she ever desired a submissive Boy Toys? Both men she had so far were strong men and she was actually a submissive to Drogo in the beggining. She doesn't seem to be interested in submissive Boy Toys, quite the contrary. 

He kneels to her and is her submissive boy toy.  And yes, I get what the North is which is why no one in their right mind would kneel.  And Ned didn't have any power in the kingdom; he was still a submissive lieutenant to Robert who knelt and ended up dying.  That is the deal with dictatorships.  You don't get an actual say in these things.  That is why the North is like screw it - give us freedom.  

And I pointed out that Dany's journey would be better if she had some actual cool mentors.  And yes, Dany is sort of a dominatrix in the bedroom.  She enjoys getting bad boys and alpha males to submit to her will.  It is sort of an alpha male fantasy to have someone like that.  Most feminists that I know aren't into alpha male bad boys.  

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39 minutes ago, Lady of Whisperers said:

@ Lord Friendzone: Wonderful comment regarding the Jon and Dany relationship I enjoyed reading all of it. I hate that so many Jon fans hate Dany and so many Dany fans hate Jon. I love them both (at least in the books). This hate is completely irrational. Dany has never done something evil against Jon and Jon has never done something against Dany. Dany fans have more reasons to hate Viserys, Mirri Maz Dur, Robert Baratheon, or the slavers in Meereen and Jon fans have more reasons to hate Aliser Thorne, Olly, Ramsey, LF, and Janos Slynt. 

@ kg1982: You clearly hate her, so I doubt any arguments will convince you, but I try it anyway.

If Dany counts as an evil dictator than so do all other monarchs in the history of Westeros. All of them had absolute power and many of them abused them in more severe ways than she did during her time in Meereen. BTW the Game of Thrones Wiki (which is sort of the shows equivalent of A wiki of ice and fire) currently lists the Kingdom of the North as a Feudal heriditary absolute monarchy, so Jon is currently an absolute monarch and so was Robb. 

Yes, burning people counts as something bad by our modern standards. But her anchestors Aegon, Visenya and Raenys burned 4000 men during the Field of Fire and Aegon  also Burned Harrenhal, still many people in Westeros and on this board judge him positively. Tywin did worse things than Dany did and still there are quite a few people who judge him positively. In our history you find many people who have done worse stuff and still some of them count as good rulers. If she is an evil dictator than Tywin and Aegon must have been super-mega-terrible-giagantic-evil dictator tyrrants. 

Dany has slaves among her advisers, the lowest of the lowest, that's like Robert Baratheon having someone from Flea Bottom among his advisers. 

She didn't force the Dothraki to kneel to her in Season 1, they did it voluntarily.

She didn't force the slavers to kneel to her in Season 3 she actually told the unsullied that they could leave if they wanted to do so, and they knelt voluntarily. 

She didn't force Tyrion to kneel to her in Season 6, he did it voluntarily and Asha didn't kneel to her either. 

Her advisers criticise which means that they don't fear that she will kill them for what they say and she values their opion. She even asked Missandei and Greyworm to speak their minds when they said that they were just slaves whose opinions don't count. She values and considers the opinions of other people an evil dictator wouldn't do that. 

Yes.  Medieval dictatorships are bad and kneeling is bad.  I would agree if Jon was the special snowflake.  I am against dictators who get to rule because of their blood!  And former slaves don't freely speak their mind.  Missandei and Grey Worm don't because that is who they are as people; they were trained to not do that.  As I said those with good intentions tend to end of as the worse dictators.  

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1 minute ago, kg1982 said:

He kneels to her and is her submissive boy toy.  And yes, I get what the North is which is why no one in their right mind would kneel.  And Ned didn't have any power in the kingdom; he was still a submissive lieutenant to Robert who knelt and ended up dying.  That is the deal with dictatorships.  You don't get an actual say in these things.  That is why the North is like screw it - give us freedom.  

And I pointed out that Dany's journey would be better if she had some actual cool mentors.  And yes, Dany is sort of a dominatrix in the bedroom.  She enjoys getting bad boys and alpha males to submit to her will.  It is sort of an alpha male fantasy to have someone like that.  Most feminists that I know aren't into alpha male bad boys.  

The Northern Nords have knelt to Jon, so they are his submissive boy toys and I guess the Great Jon was Robb's submissive Boy Toy. Please read my last comment again if you coun't Dany as an dictator, because she was an absolute ruler, than you have to count every king of Westeros including Jaeherys I and Aegon V as dictators. Than Robb has to count as a dictator, because he was an absolute ruler of the North and the Riverlands. You can't just solely label Dany as a dictator, because she is an absolute ruler, because the same applies to all other rulers in Westeros as well. 

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@ kg1982: You describe Jon as a submissive Boy Toy to Dany based on the leaks, but you completely ignore that:

1. The leaks describe Dany being friendly to Jon, respecting him and him offering to kneel voluntarily. Evil dictator does not force submissive boy toy to kneel. 

2. That not everything of the leaks has to be 100% accurate. Even Trude wasn't 100% accurate last year, because he mentioned that Sansa was in agreement that Jon should be king and part of this year's leaks still sound like complete bullshit. 

3. A lot of the stuff from the leaks is taken out of context. Which was also the case with the leaks for Season 6.

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8 minutes ago, Lady of Whisperers said:

@ Kg1982: Usted describe como Jon Boy Toy sumisa a Dany basado en las fugas, pero se ignora por completo que:

1. Las filtraciones describen Dany ser amigable con Jon, respecto a él y le ofrece a arrodillarse  voluntariamente.  Malvado dictador no fuerza juguete de niño sumiso a arrodillarse. 

2. Que no todo lo de las fugas tiene que ser fiable al 100%. Incluso Trude no era fiable al 100% el año pasado, ya que mencionó que Sansa estaba de acuerdo en que Jon debería ser rey y parte de las fugas de este año todavía sonar como una mierda completa. 

3. Una gran cantidad de las cosas de las fugas se toma fuera de contexto. Que también fue el caso de las filtraciones de la estación 6.

For this crap reddit frame if it ends up being really nothing but a fanservice crap invented by d & d.

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2 hours ago, principenoprometido said:

I not think it's all true seems a cliché fanservice no sense even ridiculous.

Some points do make sense, some don't. We need more clues and details. I understand if you're not fan of Jon and Dany or leaks. ;)

2 hours ago, Lady of Whisperers said:

@ Lord Friendzone: Wonderful comment regarding the Jon and Dany relationship I enjoyed reading all of it. I hate that so many Jon fans hate Dany and so many Dany fans hate Jon. I love them both (at least in the books). This hate is completely irrational. Dany has never done something evil against Jon and Jon has never done something against Dany. Dany fans have more reasons to hate Viserys, Mirri Maz Dur, Robert Baratheon, or the slavers in Meereen and Jon fans have more reasons to hate Aliser Thorne, Olly, Ramsey, LF, and Janos Slynt. 

@ kg1982: You clearly hate her, so I doubt any arguments will convince you, but I try it anyway.

If Dany counts as an evil dictator than so do all other monarchs in the history of Westeros. All of them had absolute power and many of them abused them in more severe ways than she did during her time in Meereen. BTW the Game of Thrones Wiki (which is sort of the shows equivalent of A wiki of ice and fire) currently lists the Kingdom of the North as a Feudal heriditary absolute monarchy, so Jon is currently an absolute monarch and so was Robb. 

Yes, burning people counts as something bad by our modern standards. But her anchestors Aegon, Visenya and Raenys burned 4000 men during the Field of Fire and Aegon  also Burned Harrenhal, still many people in Westeros and on this board judge him positively. Tywin did worse things than Dany did and still there are quite a few people who judge him positively. In our history you find many people who have done worse stuff and still some of them count as good rulers. If she is an evil dictator than Tywin and Aegon must have been super-mega-terrible-giagantic-evil dictator tyrrants. 

Dany has slaves among her advisers, the lowest of the lowest, that's like Robert Baratheon having someone from Flea Bottom among his advisers. 

She didn't force the Dothraki to kneel to her in Season 1, they did it voluntarily.

She didn't force the slavers to kneel to her in Season 3 she actually told the unsullied that they could leave if they wanted to do so, and they knelt voluntarily. 

She didn't force Tyrion to kneel to her in Season 6, he did it voluntarily and Asha didn't kneel to her either. 

Her advisers criticise which means that they don't fear that she will kill them for what they say and she values their opion. She even asked Missandei and Greyworm to speak their minds when they said that they were just slaves whose opinions don't count. She values and considers the opinions of other people an evil dictator wouldn't do that. 

 You see, even in the show Jon and Dany are similiar and yet different.

I would like to see a bit more of vulnerability, self doubt because show is trying to portray as messiah figure and symbol rather than character at times. She's a bit more Ice Queen sometimes as a character. Also, would like to see a bit more prowness from Jon in terms of politics. He's quite good at it. Helped Stanis with his battle plans and campaign..

They do have a different approach to things, way of handling it.

Whether it was executions with Janos Slynt and Mossandor. Jon looked him in the eye and earned respect even from Stannis, Doing it the old way. Dany didn't even looked at him and was attacked by the crowd. Basically handling rebels. Jon tried to give them position as Thorne being named 1st Ranger and Dany tried to intimidate them or fought them, then succumbs to idea of opening the pits. Both ignored clear warnings of mutiny or assassinations, both had intentions of changing system but too quickly.after centuries of fightinjg and violence. NW vs wildlings or Slavery at Slaver's Bay. We can go on and on. It's not showing who is better but really how they deal with it, what are their strengths and weakness.

It's surprising that of all people Jon and Dany fans are going at it. In fact, they got so much in common but yet are different. I don't know envy or jealousy?

Yeah, both have different and bigger reasons to hate others but I guess stealing their thunder is the case. Both are competing for AAR/PtwP/The Last Hero spot and since their similiarities, maybe this is why people hate on or the other.Jon is basically an absolute monarch. Good point on this.

People hate when others do admire Dany.

I think, it's very good and very much in character for Jon not to kneel when she asked him on first meeting. That would be submissive boy toy or simply giving up title.

I think there are two scenarios.

Jon feels that KitN is pointless and he porved his poijt by the time Dany will know abot white walkers, also they get to know each other. Much like Tyrion did and he was sceptic. Both act like equals and I imagine once she finds out theyre related she'll be happy and wanted to marry him as equal, which she might've done before that. Jon never implied on titles, He knows what they're facing as ice zombie are far more important , than arguing abou title and who should kneel. If Jon kneels, it is because he wants, not because she told him.

2 hours ago, Sansa Snow said:

They are equals now because Jon is ruling king himself, but if/when he marries Dany, he will submit to being her consort.

I don't think it will come to marriage. When his parentage comes out and if he's truly before her in terms of succession, she would offer him equal rulling. She wanted Aegon to rule and be by his side. She wants house with the red door and not throne. Place she can call home and family. This is what angers me about shows portrayl of Dany. She seems lust about power but she's quite frankly the opposite.

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1 hour ago, kg1982 said:

He kneels to her and is her submissive boy toy.  And yes, I get what the North is which is why no one in their right mind would kneel.  And Ned didn't have any power in the kingdom; he was still a submissive lieutenant to Robert who knelt and ended up dying.  That is the deal with dictatorships.  You don't get an actual say in these things.  That is why the North is like screw it - give us freedom.  

And I pointed out that Dany's journey would be better if she had some actual cool mentors.  And yes, Dany is sort of a dominatrix in the bedroom.  She enjoys getting bad boys and alpha males to submit to her will.  It is sort of an alpha male fantasy to have someone like that.  Most feminists that I know aren't into alpha male bad boys.  

Dominatrix? We didn't see any of her sex scenes with Daario and there was only one in which she was on top of Drogo. So, she is a dominatix because she enjoyed being on top once. We also had quite a few sex scenes with other characters in the missionary position, does this mean  that all the men in these sex scenes are extremely dominant? 

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2 hours ago, Sansa Snow said:

They are equals now because Jon is ruling king himself, but if/when he marries Dany, he will submit to being her consort.

lol, he isn't her equal , never was and never will be. He is one of the weakest among her vassals

Dothraki khals - 7 khalsaar 100k-170k ,Daario - second sons 2k ,Greyworm unsullied - 8k,Reach - 100k knight ,Dorne -50k spearman ,Ironborn 4k pirates, and Jon Snow with 5k shit foot soldier and 1 dog

 

She is the queen of the Essos and Westeros  ,Jon Snow isn't even king in her eyes but mere traitor and opportunist whose life is in hands of Daenerys 

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2 hours ago, kg1982 said:

Thank you.  Why would Dany fans by so happy that this makes her look like some sort of whiny and bratty tyrant. 

I love them both. Just in case but as leaks presented it and we don't know context of it... it doesn't make her whiny or bratty tyrant. Jon was at some point whiny and actualy arrogant to Grenn, Pyp and other Night's Watch guys and grew out of it. I don't see her as whiny or bratty.

 

As for the rest. Jorah and Barristan criticized her and questioned her actions. She listend to them. Not only Tyrion as the one to advise and lecture her. He didn't submit himself and I don't know what is with you you and this term "boy toy". Tyrion for the first time earned thing by his own actions and someone showed him respect and for who he is. It's called a bond and Dany acknowledged his qualities. If you told me he'll kneel to Dany, I would say we need context. Same with Jon, we need context to make a judgement.

And executing kid or mutineers is fine or killing others? No. Subjective.

Dany is far from dictator, Cersei, Aerys II or Maegor the Cruel you can look into them or with Cersei in next season.

Did she told him to kneel? By the sound of it no, because it was his idea and just like Tyrion. If she told him to, then it would be the case. That's why Jon refused her at first meeting and then offered his title. It didn't even stated he kneeled.

 

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