Snippets from season 7

[Meera of Tarth]

53 minutes ago, Boudica said:

Theon is never going to be Jon's ally of choice, he would never willingly be allied to Theon. Theon's only saving grace right now is that he is allied with Daenarys. If Jon had run into Theon in the North he would be a head shorter. 

First and foremost Theon betrayed Robb, because of Theon's actions Winterfell was sacked and burned. Some of the Lords like Roose Bolton lost respect for Robb because he lost his own castle. One betrayal lead to the next.

On top of that Theon beheaded Ser Rodrick, it is Theon's fault that a lot of faithful Winterfell servants died, Maester Luwin being one of them. Even if Theon didn't kill Bran and Rickon, he still murder two innocent children, and he didn't just kill them he burned their bodies and hanged them.

Jon really has no reason to forgive Theon for his previous crimes, even if Theon is now a changed man and even if he did help Sansa. Theon still committed these crimes.  Theon committed treason and murder, these are not acts that can be easily forgiven or forgotten. The Northern Lord's would see Jon as weak if he didn't actually kill Theon.

The only thing Jon would be interested in discussing with Theon is his betrayal of Robb and his death, Jon doesn't have to explain himself or his actions towards Theon. Theon has been on a redemption arc, and we as the audience can understand that, but this has no bearing on Jon's character within the story. But, Theon is allied with Dany so Jon cant really do anything against him. 

Jon actually killed Olly for far less. 

I agree, but then I would like to know what they will say to eachother.

simply tell him they have a mutual ally? Jon possibly not commenting of what happened in wf? None of them mentioning Bran?

i could definitely see any of these things happening. If only I am wrong.

[Ser Wun Wun]

One other thing the leak didn't take into account.....earlier this year Liam Cunningham was reported to have been undergoing MMA training in preparation for season 7.  Which means Davos will be in a fight during S7.  

The leaker said Davos doesn't go beyond the Wall with Jon's group, so that's not it.  That confrontation with the Gold Cloaks is settled by Gendry with his warhammer, so that's not it either imo.  

There's a fight scene for Davos somewhere in S7 that the leaker didn't account for.  I'm hoping it's a battle that the leaker somehow missed.  Maybe one not being shot in Spain?  

[Boudica]

3 hours ago, Little Scribe of Naath said:

Oh, yes I get it now...I had forgotten that Jon knows Bran is alive. But @Meera of Tarth, there's no point in us Bran fans expecting that he will be named Lord of WF or anything because the show gives fuck all about succession rules.

You're totally right when you say that it would be completely illogical and bad writing if they meet and don't talk about the past, specially his betrayal of Robb and usurping WF, but I have long learned not to expect anything from the show -  I'm simply following it now to see if there's any possibility or hint for what might happen in the future books (which is also looking uncertain now.)

 

1 hour ago, Little Scribe of Naath said:

So what exactly makes you think they're going to care about Bran or Arya's claim when they didn't care about Sansa's, who's a legitimate child of Ned Stark?

Jon is still a bastard in the show, btw. Sansa is supposed to be the rightful Lady of WF, but she isn't. Therefore since they don't care about rules in the first place, there's no need for us to believe that they're going to care when Bran or Arya turns up.

 

Some of the succession within the show has been terrible, Dorne is by far the worst and most illogical. But I do believe the main reason for that is because they wanted to minimize Dorne's presence as quickly as possible.

 

In the show and even in the books, the laws within Weseros's society is begining to crumble. All of the first and best choices within Weseros's society has been killed. That leaves a big gap, and makes usually linear concepts such as succession much more complicated and open ended. Throughout the story we are always reminded that power lies where people believe it resides. If the first and best options are gone, people are going to start weighing their option. Westeros has been ravished and more wars are looming, that makes people more weary of their choices. It is easy to follow succession in peacetime when there are no threats, but this is not the current climate. 

Even within the books, even without Robb's will I think Jon would still be chosen as the King in the North. This is winter and wartime, people are not thinking to far ahead right now. The North are not as hard on bastards as Southerners, Jon has experience in ruling and he has a small army. We see for example Alys Karstark go to Jon Snow, because he is Ned Stark's last son. She basically treats him as if he is a King. Basically the only obstacle for Jon is that he is bastard, but he was always a more high ranking type of bastard since he was acknowledged by Ned and since he grew up with his trueborn siblings, the North knows him. I dont think it is too big of a stretch to predict this outcome even without Robb's will. 

Sansa's marriages will always be a problem, it isn't fair since she didn't want to marry a Lannister and whoever Littlefinger is lining up for her in the Vale, but this is the reality of the situation. Sansa has no experience in ruling and military matters, and she is allied with Littlefinger. They wouldn't be able to get Sansa a husband who could do these things for her, because she is already married, and I dont see book Sansa being able to do these things.

I actually think the North might follow Arya, she is more like the Mormont women and North has no problem with them, she is also unmarried. She is still a young girl with no experience, but I think the North would follow her the easiest. The problem is if Arya herself would interested. 

Bran at least has some experience, he ruled Winterfell for a while. The problem is how long will it take for him to reach home? It doesn't seem as if he will be going home anytime soon within books. And just like Arya I am not sure if he will be interested. Some leadership tasks might be difficult for him.

Rickon would just be a boy Lord, and most Lords would just try to use him in order to gain power. The situation within the North is too unstable right now for a boy Lord.

So basically I dont really see how the situation is much different between the books and show. In books there is simply no one else available right now. Arya, Sansa and Bran are not available and they might not be available for a while yet. Perhaps Stannis should be counted as an option. They will help Stannis to try and get rid of the Boltons, but they are not really going follow a Southerner. The Manderly's are trying to get a hold of Rickon, but I can actually quite easily see them declaring Jon as the King in the North even without Robb's will. In the show they only had Jon and Sansa as choices. So the whole situation is actually very similar.

If the other siblings does appear I dont think it would be a big issue, since all of the Starks have basically been trained for different roles, and there are bigger problems and concerns to deal with.  

I dont know if the show will specifically address it or not, but it is a situation that can easily work itself out without being addressed. 

[Boudica]

58 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

I agree, but then I would like to know what they will say to eachother.

simply tell him they have a mutual ally? Jon possibly not commenting of what happened in wf? None of them mentioning Bran?

i could definitely see any of these things happening. If only I am wrong.

We will have wait and see what they will say to each other. According to the spoilers Jon tells Theon that the only reason he isn't dead is because he saved Sansa. But from the footage it seems like there might be a few more words spoken then that. 

Jon is never going to explain to Theon why or how he became the King in the North. He also will not discuss or explain his allience with Dany to Theon, that is between him and Dany. Even Dany doesn't have to say much to Theon, she made a deal with Yara. Theon is simply not on the same level Dany or Jon, they do not have to humor him. So basically there isn't much for them to say to each other. 

[moonlightof1982]

On 10/17/2016 at 6:25 PM, Evarei said:

Like every year trolls come out with their fanfic all throughout off-season. The newest one has been disproven extensively courtesy to r/asoiaf and r/freefolk. All points from the 'leak' countered with facts. And the troll shot himself in the foot in the private messages he sent to some posters in reply to their questions (if his inconsistencies and poor knowledge of GOT didn't do that in the first place). It's a wonder it got as much attention as it did. 

@JonSnowed it's been years in the making. Nothing groundbreaking. Just educated guess. Jon and Dany meeting has been the most predictable thing about ASOIAF/GOT since its conception. Jon's envoys meeting Daenerys has also been an expected plot point. Jon and Theon reuniting as well, especially given last season's foreshadowing. BS mixed with widely known, longterm speculation and spoilers from WOTW (the Euron and Sand Snakes bits). That's all there is to it.

I fully agree. They saw the paparazzi pics and wrote a pleasing story around it. They do it every year. The only difference is that they did much earlier than expected. The Hype Train is starting.   

On 10/17/2016 at 6:25 PM, Evarei said:

 

 

[Lord Friendzone]

1 hour ago, Ser Wun Wun said:

One other thing the leak didn't take into account.....earlier this year Liam Cunningham was reported to have been undergoing MMA training in preparation for season 7.  Which means Davos will be in a fight during S7.  

The leaker said Davos doesn't go beyond the Wall with Jon's group, so that's not it.  That confrontation with the Gold Cloaks is settled by Gendry with his warhammer, so that's not it either imo.  

There's a fight scene for Davos somewhere in S7 that the leaker didn't account for.  I'm hoping it's a battle that the leaker somehow missed.  Maybe one not being shot in Spain?  

MMA fighting is not exactly useful for Game of Thrones, he could go to gym and underwent some swordfighting training. But the thing is leaker might've messed up names who will be going with Jon. Jon is not part of dragonpit scenes and Davos is, Brienne, Dany, Missandei too along with others. Jon and Davos separated most likely at some point and wonder why? Must be either something at Winterfell or truly that mission.

[Commander Jon Snow]

I think abovethelads definitely knows some stuff though. He made these leaks well before the paparazzi pics starting coming out. Hell, he wrote them before Kit Harrington was even in Spain. 

My guess is that he genuinely knows quite a bit about the scenes in Spain. Everything else still seems fishy to me which might explain why there is so much less detail about it.. he doesn't actually know about them.

Things he has been right about before paps confirmed it:

- Jon coming to Dragonstone with Davos and being received by Tyrion

- Jon and Dany make an alliance (and probably end up banging at some point)

- Jon and Theon meeting at Dragonstone

- Gendry, Davos, Tyrion being involved in some fight in Kings Landing

 

Some of that shit is way too specific to be a total guess. Sure, there's some stuff wrong here and there but he def has some level of understanding of what is happening in the scenes shot in Spain. And this was BEFORE they actually started shooting there

[Queen of Procrastination]

2 hours ago, Boudica said:

<snip>

I agree with most of what you've said it actually makes a lot of sense for Jon to become KitN in the books. Even without the will. I think the problem most Northern Lords would have with Arya is her age, they might still prefer Jon, because he's old enough to rule in his own name (none of the other Stark children is old enough for this in the books). However, if she were a few years older, she would probably be a good option. I wonder how the Northern lords will react when they'll learn that Jeyne Pool is not Arya...

Regarding Jon and Theon: Don't get me wrong here I really like Thon, but I can totally understand why Jon acts the way he acts. Yes, Jon knows that Theon didn't kill Bran and Rickon, but he still betrayed Robb and sacked Winterfell. Honestly, I doubt that most of us would have an easy time foregiving the man who has betrayed our "brother" and sacked our home. While most of you believe that this is another scene which shows how much the showrunners ignore the books, I could see something like that happening in the books, in case Jon would meet Theon again. 

Spoilers from the realeased Theon I chapter in TWOW: 

 

We learn that the Northern Lords allied with Stannis want to see Theon dead

I suspect that Book!Jon might be a bit greyer character after his resurrection and he might want to like punishing the people he considers responsible for the downfall of his family. I could imagine him being extremely angry when he sees Theon again.  I always believed that Asha should try to free Theon during the Battle of Ice and that the two of them should leave the North as fast as possible, before the Northern lords kill him.

Regarding Dany: Am I the only one who finds her new dress really weird? 

[Bear Claw]

3 minutes ago, Lady of Whisperers said:

 

Regarding Dany: Am I the only one who finds her new dress really weird? 

 I don't like how Dany's group is dressed. To me they look more like science fiction outfits.

[Queen of Procrastination]

5 minutes ago, Bear Claw said:

 I don't like how Dany's group is dressed. To me they look more like science fiction outfits.

Yes, and they shouldn't all dress in black, otherwise they might get mistaken for members of the NW  

[WolfQueenArya]

I personally believe that half of these 'leaks' are bs. The Spain ones are turning out to be mostly true so far. It's the North, King's Landing stuff I don't believe. Cersie pregnant? Arya not doing anything when she is supposed to be extremely important? Travel to get one wight to bring to show Cersie? I just... no. Just no. If these turn out true than I'm praying D and D chose not to end the show like how George  is ending the novels. Just no. My opinions of course here. 

[SeanF]

6 hours ago, Lady of Whisperers said:

I agree with most of what you've said it actually makes a lot of sense for Jon to become KitN in the books. Even without the will. I think the problem most Northern Lords would have with Arya is her age, they might still prefer Jon, because he's old enough to rule in his own name (none of the other Stark children is old enough for this in the books). However, if she were a few years older, she would probably be a good option. I wonder how the Northern lords will react when they'll learn that Jeyne Pool is not Arya...

 

 

I sincerely hope that poor Jeyne Poole is well away from the Northern Lords if and when they realise she isn't Arya.

I think she would be burned for treason, if she were revealed as an imposter.  The only person who can vouch for her is Theon, and no one would believe him.

[Newstar]

13 hours ago, Lord Friendzone said:

One leaker (original) said they'll bang but no word on romance, Just having sex but what if Jon falls in love then NOOO Luke Skywalker moment. There is one another leaker who claims Jon is falling for Sansa and bangs Dany.

That wasn't a leaker, just a surprisingly dumb Jonsa fan, posting first as WindsofWinterr, claiming to have a "wife" who was a set location manager on GOT and who was a Jonsa shipper, and then as a "different" poster WinterisHeree, trying to turn the tide of the Jon/Dany spoilers by making some pretty silly claims (like Jon will have sex with Dany despite being in love with Sansa, LOL). Said fan created two accounts with very similar names (one of which purported to provide "leaks" via the fan's "wife") at similar times and proceeded to spam /freefolk with Jonsa crap. It was pretty funny, though:

Dumb Jonsa Fan: *posts long Jonsa screed about how Jonsa is meant to be*....I don't SHIP it or anything, I just think it's definitely going to happen. It would be nice for the Starks to have a little happiness, though.

Freefolk Redditors: So you ship Jonsa.

Dumb Jonsa Fan: SHIP JONSA?! I'M NOT SOME TUMBLR FANGIRL HOW DARE YOU!!!...Now read this Tumblr manifesto someone wrote about how Jon and Sansa are meant to be together that I just happened to stumble across.

9 hours ago, moonlightof1982 said:

I fully agree. They saw the paparazzi pics and wrote a pleasing story around it. They do it every year. The only difference is that they did much earlier than expected. The Hype Train is starting.   

 

Nah. Since Evarei made the post you're citing (claiming the leak is a complete fabrication) on October 17th, more than a week ago, filming information has come out confirming several aspects of the leaks. Awayforthelads provided specific information about several scenes in the Spanish filming: Jon confronting Theon, Tyrion receiving Jon and Davos when they land at Dragonstone, Davos and Gendry going to KL in secret and returning with Gendry, etc. It cannot be denied that the leaker had considerable legit inside information. Whether the leaker knows more is anyone's guess, but the leak has not been debunked. The Spanish information has been confirmed.

By the way, the leaker claimed that a cured Jorah would reunite with Dany in 7x05, something the leaker would know (like the Davos/Tyrion/Gendry stuff) if it was shot outside. You know who JUST arrived in Zumaia where they're currently filming Dragonstone exterior shots? Iain Glen.

As for Evarei's claim that the leaker's info where correct was just "educated guesses," that's pretty laughable, given that the hardcore fandom, the most educated guessers of all, had no clue about Jon and Davos heading south early in Season 7, Davos and Tyrion going on a secret mission to KL, etc. Maybe "anybody could have guessed it," but nobody did. Everyone got it wrong except the leaker.

Also, most fake leak trolls are usually hardcore book/show fans. The leaker doesn't appear to be a hardcore book/show fan. He misspelled Targaryen as "Targareyon" every time. Hardcore book/show trolls usually throw in book theories into their "leaks": Lady Stoneheart making a belated appearance, Tyrion being revealed as a Targ, Aegon showing up, Jaime strangling Cersei to death, etc. The leaker didn't do that.

8 hours ago, Commander Jon Snow said:

Some of that shit is way too specific to be a total guess. Sure, there's some stuff wrong here and there but he def has some level of understanding of what is happening in the scenes shot in Spain. And this was BEFORE they actually started shooting there

No one who knows the leaks and who's been paying attention to the Spain filming can deny that the leaker had extensive inside information. The only question is how much other information does the leaker have about material filmed outside of Spain?

The other question is that while the leaker has been bang on for the Basque filming, soon the filming is going to move to other parts of Spain. It may be that the leaker only had knowledge of the scenes shot in the Basque region and didn't have any insight into the Seville, Cordoba and Caceres filming. The leaker made a number of claims about the scenes that we know will be shot in Seville, Cordoba, and Caceres, though. The dragonpit scene, for example, will be filmed in Santiponce. The leaker was very specific about what supposedly happens in the dragonpit scene. The leaker has already been proven right about the supposed placement of the dragonpit scene (7x07, as confirmed by Javi I think), so it's possible that they got the content of the scene right as well. Either way, we'll know just from the presence of certain actors in Seville whether or not the leaker got it right.

It will be tricker to debunk things like the leaker's claims about the Winterfell plotline, since all of that is shot on closed sets in Ireland. (Last season the only real spoilers out of the WF storyline were the BOTB spoilers, and those only got out because they were filmed out in the open with a bunch of extras.) All the leaker might know is certain northern characters being absent from the dragonpit scene. For example, if Sansa isn't at the dragonpit scene, the leaker might assume she remains north at Winterfell. However, for all the leaker knows, the reason Sansa isn't involved in the scene along with Brienne is that Sansa's already dead.

Quote

If these turn out true than I'm praying D and D chose not to end the show like how George  is ending the novels.

D&D have said several times they're sticking with GRRM's ending.

 

[LordImp]

D&D knows the ending , but do they know how the battle against the WW will turn out ? GRRM has stated several times that he is tired of the classical goods vs evil . if the leaks are to be belived almost everyone teams up to battle the WW , which is classical good vs evil. D&D are turning GOT into the opposite of ASoiaf. 

[Newstar]

18 minutes ago, LordImp said:

D&D knows the ending , but do they know how the battle against the WW will turn out ? GRRM has stated several times that he is tired of the classical goods vs evil . if the leaks are to be belived almost everyone teams up to battle the WW , which is classical good vs evil. D&D are turning GOT into the opposite of ASoiaf. 

That presupposes that the WW are evil. In the showverse, at least, they're not evil: the NK, the leader of the WWs, was created to be a weapon (against his will). D&D have said that the NK represents death and pure destruction. He's not really "evil" any more than a tornado or an earthquake is evil. The books could be different, of course. Also, I doubt most of the people on Team Humanity will be considered "good" by any measure: the people left standing to combat the WW threat will be a bunch of murderers like Tyrion and Arya or opportunists like Littlefinger.

Also, the leaks are pretty clear that not everyone teams up or even "almost everyone." There is already one pretty significant abstainer--even if she pretends to go along--and there may be more.

I think what people really mean when they say "I don't want everyone to team up to battle the WW, OMG it's so cliche" is "I don't want Jon and Dany to team up." And that's fine and all, but let's be serious, Jon and Dany teaming up was always going to happen. GRRM never claimed otherwise.

[Bogdan]

Who is the important abstainer from the alliance?.

[The Princess of Ghosts]

18 hours ago, Boudica said:

No one knows where Bran is, he might have survived Theon's attack but he could be dead beyond the Wall right now. The North cant sit around and wait until he shows up one day, life goes on.

When Bran shows up at Winterfell then it might become a subject of discussion, but even then the Northerns also follow strength to a certain degree.  Bran is a crippled teenager, they might just decide to stick with Jon. Although Bran actually does have some experience in ruling at Winterfell, so it will be interesting to see what happens when he arrives. 

Yes, but Bran is the trueborn son of their previous liege lord. It's the law. Also physical strength is not required for ruling (look at Doran, etc, etc.) But hey, crippled teenager is unfit to be a ruling figure because D&D don't wаnt to 'waste' screentime on him insteаd of showing hot adult Jon Targaryen, a young lord/king, going down on his aunt. 

At this point I'm not even trying to avoid spoilers because I cannot be served this bullshit in any form that won't make me laugh hysterically.

[Ashes Of Westeros]

15 minutes ago, Bogdan said:

Who is the important abstainer from the alliance?.

Sansa? Though I don't know why should she go South. There must be always Stark in WF.

[lojzelote]

24 minutes ago, Bogdan said:

Who is the important abstainer from the alliance?.

Cersei, I believe.

23 minutes ago, The Princess of Ghosts said:

Yes, but Bran is the trueborn son of their previous liege lord. It's the law. Also physical strength is not required for ruling (look at Doran, etc, etc.) But hey, crippled teenager is unfit to be a ruling figure because D&D don't wаnt to 'waste' screentime on him insteаd of showing hot adult Jon Targaryen, a young lord/king, going down on his aunt. 

At this point I'm not even trying to avoid spoilers because I cannot be served this bullshit in any form that won't make me laugh hysterically.

Doesn't matter. The Northern lords in the show chose Snow over Stark, as illogical as it may appear under the circumstances. It does Bran little good he is the oldest male Stark, Jon has been acclaimed their leader, Snow or not,  and it would make the whole thing even dumber if they changed their decision a few weeks later. Why even bother with it then?

Anyway, assuming that Book Jon was legitimized by Robb's will, in the past GRRM let himself be heard on the matter of legitimized male bastards vs their trueborn sisters and trueborn younger brothers, and he basically stated that the Westerosi laws and customs are unclear in regards as to who is the "rightful" heir is in such a case. Both Bran and Jon would have a good claim.

(Edit: That's why Book Catelyn was so set against Robb naming Jon. She knew he might be kinda opening Pandora's box here.)

[LordImp]

1 hour ago, Newstar said:

That presupposes that the WW are evil. In the showverse, at least, they're not evil: the NK, the leader of the WWs, was created to be a weapon (against his will). D&D have said that the NK represents death and pure destruction. He's not really "evil" any more than a tornado or an earthquake is evil. The books could be different, of course. Also, I doubt most of the people on Team Humanity will be considered "good" by any measure: the people left standing to combat the WW threat will be a bunch of murderers like Tyrion and Arya or opportunists like Littlefinger.

Also, the leaks are pretty clear that not everyone teams up or even "almost everyone." There is already one pretty significant abstainer--even if she pretends to go along--and there may be more.

I think what people really mean when they say "I don't want everyone to team up to battle the WW, OMG it's so cliche" is "I don't want Jon and Dany to team up." And that's fine and all, but let's be serious, Jon and Dany teaming up was always going to happen. GRRM never claimed otherwise.

At least i hope there is a twist at the end. Jon becoming the new NK maybe or the dragons being just as bad as the WW.