HBO's Westworld- Enter the maze [spoilers]

[Ramsay B.]

Continue.

[Cas Stark]

I think the only options for the techs being robots would be Bernard or Theresa.  Elsie seems too independent to be a robot and Helmsworth too cynical.  But the other poster could be correct that this is reading too much into things and the techies are all human.  The show already has enough going on with mazes, Shakespearean code and AI consciousness.  LOL.

[red snow]

Is Elsie the one who is drawn to the robots?

I think the tech crew as mainly hosts makes sense in terms of cost effectiveness. You don't actually have to pay any of them and they can be programmed to obey/be loyal.

I like the MiB bogeyman idea - it's true that over the years he's probably killed all the hosts at least once.

The Hemsworth character was also teasing us with the "I guess that's my backstory" line. I think he is human.

As for the "40K" a day - I'm taking that with a pinch of salt as this could be 30 years at least ahead of our time so won't be as decadent. Plus the changing gap between rich and poor means it's probably affordable for the one percent at least. Not sure what the working class do once there are robots that can do their job for them. The hosts would have to cost an insane amount of money for them not to be worth buying to replace a human on a annual salary. A dollar from 2016 was worth $29 in 1860 for example. I'm sure the intention is to convey that the park costs a lot of money but I don't think it's as astronomical as it sounds.

 

[Commodore]

so from what I gather

- some hosts (Dolores) are programmed not to even use fake guns 
- memories from past scenario versions are creeping into Dolores' present day (gun in dresser drawer, getting shot vs escaping)
- wasn't clear if her escaping to find William is a memory of a past scenario. If it was, he could still be The Man in Black

[red snow]

1 minute ago, Commodore said:

so from what I gather

- some hosts (Dolores) are programmed not to even use fake guns 
- memories from past scenario versions are creeping into Dolores' present day (gun in dresser drawer, getting shot vs escaping)
- wasn't clear if her escaping to find William is a memory of a past scenario. If it was, he could still be The Man in Black

Don't drag me back in! I think William's response to her makes it very hard for it to be her reliving a past event. Unless she had been in a very similar situation in the past which seems like an accumulation of stretches.

[Cas Stark]

3 minutes ago, red snow said:

Don't drag me back in! I think William's response to her makes it very hard for it to be her reliving a past event. Unless she had been in a very similar situation in the past which seems like an accumulation of stretches.

I think we saw exactly what happened, she broke out of her loop, rode away and met up with William and everything we've seen is going on at the same time. 

[Commodore]

they weren't very clear on which version was a memory vs present day

 

[Cas Stark]

 

I just think showing the audience two timelines is too convoluted.  If William is in the past then that means the gun she found is also in the past and that to me does not make sense.  Also, the show seems to be much less about the Man in Black than about the hosts, another reason I don't think we're seeing William in the past.  But that's me.

[Fez]

1 hour ago, Cas Stark said:

I think the only options for the techs being robots would be Bernard or Theresa.  Elsie seems too independent to be a robot and Helmsworth too cynical.  But the other poster could be correct that this is reading too much into things and the techies are all human.  The show already has enough going on with mazes, Shakespearean code and AI consciousness.  LOL.

Unless the employee robots are the next model version of the technology. It seems pretty clear that the park's parent corporation is up to something sinister; it could be something a bit like the Institute in Fallout 4 

Spoiler

replacing humans with robot versions

or something along those lines. And testing that out with the employees first would be one way to work out the kinks. Also, the whole bit about how employees work in shifts (I think it was 2-3 weeks, not months) and then go home for a while, sounds way too similar to the loop that the park itself is in. 

Granted, if better versions of the technology already exist, its hard to square that with the glitches the hosts were getting from the reverie update. Unless the reverie update, and Ford's entire plan, is about creating true AI conciousness; whereas the employee robots are maybe much realistic but are still entirely programming.

The main theme of the show seems to be 'What is a human?' and I think the answer to that is going to be a two-way street; the hosts are much more human than anyone thought, but the employees (at least some of them) are much less human (at least by the thinking used at the start of the show).

[Cas Stark]

I originally thought this was what Ford was doing also...trying to bring the robots to consciousness...but after his rant in the last episode to the guy who covered the robot, this seems less likely to me.

[Leofric]

1 minute ago, Fez said:

Unless the employee robots are the next model version of the technology. It seems pretty clear that the park's parent corporation is up to something sinister; it could be something a bit like the Institute in Fallout 4 

  Hide contents

replacing humans with robot versions

or something along those lines. And testing that out with the employees first would be one way to work out the kinks. Also, the whole bit about how employees work in shifts (I think it was 2-3 weeks, not months) and then go home for a while, sounds way too similar to the loop that the park itself is in. 

Granted, if better versions of the technology already exist, its hard to square that with the glitches the hosts were getting from the reverie update. Unless the reverie update, and Ford's entire plan, is about creating true AI conciousness; whereas the employee robots are maybe much realistic but are still entirely programming.

The main theme of the show seems to be 'What is a human?' and I think the answer to that is going to be a two-way street; the hosts are much more human than anyone thought, but the employees (at least some of them) are much less human (at least by the thinking used at the start of the show).

Your spoiler was the plot for Futureworld, the sequel to the original Westworld movie.

[Fez]

18 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

I originally thought this was what Ford was doing also...trying to bring the robots to consciousness...but after his rant in the last episode to the guy who covered the robot, this seems less likely to me.

That caught me off guard too. But it could be that Ford's upset because the robots currently aren't conscious, and that's why he has this secret, complicated plan to bring them to consciousness. But until they reach that point though, or are even on the path to it, they are just furniture.

 

17 minutes ago, Leofric said:

Your spoiler was the plot for Futureworld, the sequel to the original Westworld movie.

Interesting. I had no idea. Well, that makes me think it may be even more likely.

[Cas Stark]

I think the majority of the tech workers are human, it doesn't work that the people who are tasked with innovation and dealing with programming glitches would also be robots, also the reactions of the various techs...the guy who clothed the robot, the two men who were working on Thandie, all of that seems very human.  But it seems possible 1 or 2 of them could be robots.

I honestly cannot see a difference in the logos, LOL, but if the train station is really different, which I can't find any comparing photos may be I dismissed the two timelines too quickly.

I now have no idea what Hopkins is doing or what is end goal is.  It just occurred to me, maybe Bernard is Arnold?  And he's recreating the same actions his human self did....trying to get the hosts to sentience? 

Did I mention I really like this show?  LOL.  

[Astromech]

I'm not too clear on Ford's angle. Am I the only one seeing a Ford vs. corporate struggle? I suspect Arnold and the MiB are very closely linked.

Interesting reveals concerning Bernard. It's clear he can't help being paternal with some of the hosts, namely Dolores. Now we know why. I really enjoyed the Alice in Wonderland scene with Bernard and Dolores.

 

[The Monkey]

4 hours ago, red snow said:

Is Elsie the one who is drawn to the robots?

I think the tech crew as mainly hosts makes sense in terms of cost effectiveness. You don't actually have to pay any of them and they can be programmed to obey/be loyal.

I like the MiB bogeyman idea - it's true that over the years he's probably killed all the hosts at least once.

The Hemsworth character was also teasing us with the "I guess that's my backstory" line. I think he is human.

As for the "40K" a day - I'm taking that with a pinch of salt as this could be 30 years at least ahead of our time so won't be as decadent. Plus the changing gap between rich and poor means it's probably affordable for the one percent at least. Not sure what the working class do once there are robots that can do their job for them. The hosts would have to cost an insane amount of money for them not to be worth buying to replace a human on a annual salary. A dollar from 2016 was worth $29 in 1860 for example. I'm sure the intention is to convey that the park costs a lot of money but I don't think it's as astronomical as it sounds.

 

Interesting how differently people think. I imagine this to be at least 300 years into the future.

[Spring Bass]

I don't think Bernard is an android, although I can see why it might look like that . The link to Arnold seems more symbolic to me, in that Bernard is committing the same "mistake" as Arnold in seeing the hosts as humans, trying to see the humanity in them, and so forth - he clearly gets disappointed and surprised when Dolores surprises him with that response.

Speaking of which, that's what fascinates me about Ford. Ford likes his creations and is clearly trying to push the boundaries on their intelligence, but he very much does not see them as human and reprimands people who treat them like humans (like the technician). As per his statement in the pilot, they're something new that could potentially surpass humanity (which has peaked).

I really enjoyed that episode, and I liked the reveal about Teddy, about how there's literally nothing there to meet the eye before Ford programs it in this back-story. He literally has but a general sense of regret and two canned responses, no mystery (unlike Dolores). It made me think of that scene from Ghost in the Shell where

Spoiler

a cyborg worker has it programmed into his head that he has a daughter, but when confronted with questions and evidence that he doesn't, his story collapses because they didn't give him the details for it.

EDIT: Side-note, but there was a Q & A with the show-runners that revealed an interesting little tidbit. When asked about the park's location, they made mention about how a fantastic place like Disneyland is sitting in the middle of suburbia, and said that you might be able to figure out where it by the end of the first season. I took that to mean that there's nothing special about where the park is - it's just in a location that's large enough for their purposes while being convenient enough for guests to reach it.

[Fez]

3 minutes ago, The Monkey said:

Interesting how differently people think. I imagine this to be at least 300 years into the future.

It does seem that way. But there was some interview where Nolan seemingly by accident admitted that the show took place in the 21st century (he was embarrassed about it when asked about it in a follow-up interview).

[Baitac]

2 hours ago, Astromech said:

I'm not too clear on Ford's angle. Am I the only one seeing a Ford vs. corporate struggle? I suspect Arnold and the MiB are very closely linked.

Interesting reveals concerning Bernard. It's clear he can't help being paternal with some of the hosts, namely Dolores. Now we know why. I really enjoyed the Alice in Wonderland scene with Bernard and Dolores.

 

Yes about Arnold and MiB. Possibly Ford created Dolores and Arnold created MiB and they are both the oldest hosts. The two easiest programs, one good, one bad. 

[Corvinus85]

11 minutes ago, The Monkey said:

Interesting how differently people think. I imagine this to be at least 300 years into the future.

I think it's the second half of the 21st century. You can guess from the technology. There are incredible advances in robotics and AI research, which is something that's picking up now. Communication technology has advanced as well (as we can see from Bernard's phone, and the holographic communication with his wife), but that is bound to slow down for a period of time from what it is today. We also see that the weapons the security guys carry are just present day weapons. I would think if it was 300+ years in the future, weapon tech would have advanced appropriately. Plus in 300 years, fashion is bound to change, too, and it is also present day fashion. Also, the two that go after the stray go on foot for what it seems like an entire day. I was wondering why they don't use some kind of quick transport, but if transportation tech has not evolved much past what we have today, then it would not stealthy enough to not disrupt daily park activities. The train that William and Logan arrive on at the facility looks like one of the prototypes that present day engineers are envisioning.

[Ferrum Aeternum]

32 minutes ago, Corvinus said:

I think it's the second half of the 21st century. You can guess from the technology. There are incredible advances in robotics and AI research, which is something that's picking up now. Communication technology has advanced as well (as we can see from Bernard's phone, and the holographic communication with his wife), but that is bound to slow down for a period of time from what it is today. We also see that the weapons the security guys carry are just present day weapons. I would think if it was 300+ years in the future, weapon tech would have advanced appropriately. Plus in 300 years, fashion is bound to change, too, and it is also present day fashion. Also, the two that go after the stray go on foot for what it seems like an entire day. I was wondering why they don't use some kind of quick transport, but if transportation tech has not evolved much past what we have today, then it would not stealthy enough to not disrupt daily park activities. The train that William and Logan arrive on at the facility looks like one of the prototypes that present day engineers are envisioning.

Good post.  I think it's 2060-70 ish.  

Loved the look we got last night at Ford's work with the crude early hosts, great backstory. Still love where this series is headed.