Adam Yozza Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 Jon and Bran were named after Jon Arryn and Brandon Stark (Ned's brother). Rickon and Robb were named in honour of Rickard and Robert. In both cases, they are named in order to respect Ned's close friends and deceased family members. But yes, the fact that Robb was the only Stark child to be named with a southron name and also the only Stark to be born in the south (excluding Jon, who's really a Targaryen so I guess doesn't count?) is interesting. @The Fattest Leech Also, not that I agree with the theory that every Stark who goes South dies, but Rickon Stark (son of Cregan) was killed outside of Sunspear in Daeron's conquest of Dorne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fattest Leech Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 1 minute ago, sweetsunray said: It is certainly a meta-oddity. I'm not so sure that Ned named him even. Robb was born in Riverrun while Ned was fighting and absent. It's possible that Catelyn actually named him. I hadn't mentioned it yet because I was searching to be sure, but yeah, I think Cat named Robb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted October 17, 2016 Author Share Posted October 17, 2016 1 minute ago, Adam Yozza said: excluding Jon, who's really a Targaryen so I guess doesn't count He is literally 50%Stark just like Cat's children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetsunray Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 5 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said: Ah! Thank you. This is where my thinking on this always ended up going- to the time and work rather than just the travel south. Thank you. Yes. I point to this in my Hades of Winterfell essay, when I explain how Hades wasn't forbidden to visit Olympus or even fight a war in the terrestrial world (although Hercules - with the lion pelt and sun god related - wounds him then). But his dominion is the underworld and his focus must be the curses, damnations and crimes done to his subjects (the dead). So solving a murder and bringing murderers to justice falls within Hades's domain, even outside the underworld. But he doesn't get to fight over who' Zeus' heir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted October 17, 2016 Author Share Posted October 17, 2016 Just now, sweetsunray said: Yes. I point to this in my Hades of Winterfell essay, when I explain how Hades wasn't forbidden to visit Olympus or even fight a war in the terrestrial world (although Hercules - with the lion pelt and sun god related - wounds him then). But his dominion is the underworld and his focus must be the curses, damnations and crimes done to his subjects (the dead). So solving a murder and bringing murderers to justice falls within Hades's domain, even outside the underworld. But he doesn't get to fight over who' Zeus' heir. Now you reminded me that I want to start a thread about characters of ASOIAF and mythologies. Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Yozza Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 Just now, Jon's Queen Consort said: He is literally 50%Stark just like Cat's children. Yeah, but unlike Cat's children his father was a Targaryen. It seems to only be the male line that is affected by this theory otherwise it becomes obsolete. Because there are Stark girls who married Waynwood's, Royce's and Templeton's. Their children weren't likely named after northern kings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fattest Leech Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 3 minutes ago, Adam Yozza said: Jon and Bran were named after Jon Arryn and Brandon Stark (Ned's brother). Rickon and Robb were named in honour of Rickard and Robert. In both cases, they are named in order to respect Ned's close friends and deceased family members. But yes, the fact that Robb was the only Stark child to be named with a southron name and also the only Stark to be born in the south (excluding Jon, who's really a Targaryen so I guess doesn't count?) @The Fattest Leech Also, not that I agree with the theory that every Stark who goes South dies, but Rickon Stark (son of Cregan) was killed outside of Sunspear in Daeron's conquest of Dorne. Hehe, thanks for not agreeing, but adding to it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetsunray Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 3 minutes ago, Jon's Queen Consort said: Now you reminded me that I want to start a thread about characters of ASOIAF and mythologies. Thank you! I think you'll need more than a thread. I still don't see the end of my chthonic cycle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fattest Leech Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 5 minutes ago, Adam Yozza said: Yeah, but unlike Cat's children his father was a Targaryen. It seems to only be the male line that is affected by this theory otherwise it becomes obsolete. Because there are Stark girls who married Waynwood's, Royce's and Templeton's. Their children weren't likely named after northern kings. The thing is, as far as I can remember without doing an hour of digging and note taking, those people are all in a vicinity that can culminate the north, the old gods still rule (or at least lurk) and things like iron and bronze are still honored, and weirwood trees, etc. I can't think of, off hand, any northerns that were truly uprooted and married or moved south, or atleast below the Vale and the Riverlands. And I think it having to do with the ruling king and his descendants may also be a large deciding factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philokles Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 23 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said: I guess what I am saying is that I am not totally convinced that Edric= our known Ned. And if so, then something may happen to Edric that parallels Ned. There is written account of every other Stark kid having a traditional Stark name. The exception is Robb, who was born and died in the Riverlands. Also, Robb, the first born and a male, wasn't named after Ned or any other historical Stark kinda speaks volumes as well. I think it would be a major coincidence for Ned's son to named so closely to his best friend but not in honour of him. I agree with your general point, and don't think that Robb being named after Robert affects it. If anything it strengthens the case that the King of the North who was born and died in the south, not only had a southron name but was called such in honour of a southron king. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted October 17, 2016 Author Share Posted October 17, 2016 4 minutes ago, Adam Yozza said: Yeah, but unlike Cat's children his father was a Targaryen. It seems to only be the male line that is affected by this theory otherwise it becomes obsolete. Because there are Stark girls who married Waynwood's, Royce's and Templeton's. Their children weren't likely named after northern kings. Quote “He is not my father. The thought leapt unbidden to Jon's mind. Lord Eddard Stark is my father. I will not forget him, no matter how many swords they give me. Ned is Jon's father, he may was his adoptive father but he was his father when it mattered and not just a sperm donor like Rhaegar. Just now, sweetsunray said: I think you'll need more than a thread. I still don't see the end of my chthonic cycle. True however my idea was something much simpler than your great analysis, but not as simple as Cersei=Hera and Robert=Zeus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fattest Leech Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 2 minutes ago, Horse of Kent said: I think it would be a major coincidence for Ned's son to named so closely to his best friend but not in honour of him. I agree with your general point, and don't think that Robb being named after Robert affects it. If anything it strengthens the case that the King of the North who was born and died in the south, not only had a southron name but was called such in honour of a southron king. Could be, and that leads back to the topic of this thread. It was already forshadowed that Robb would not live because of this. It is just the supporting quotes and clues that add weight to it. (Yes, the Red Wedding was almost literally foreshadowed play by play in Clash when Bran was playing Lord of the Crossing with the Walder boys at Winterfell. This is just another layer to it.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ned's Little Girl Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 55 minutes ago, Horse of Kent said: Edric Dayne is named after Ned, yet his name is not Eddard. I think it's fairly clear that Edric and Eddard are different names, even though they have the same diminutive. For example, "Ted" is sometimes used as a diminutive of "Edward" although it's more common as a nickname for "Theodore". It's possible for different - and in this case, wildly different - names to have the same short version. As far as Robb's name, his being named after (or even in honor of) Robert Baratheon would probably hold more weight if Ned ever referred to or thought of Robert as Rob or Robb. I don't believe he does, though, so it makes the idea pretty dubious IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fattest Leech Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 12 minutes ago, Adam Yozza said: Yeah, but unlike Cat's children his father was a Targaryen. It seems to only be the male line that is affected by this theory otherwise it becomes obsolete. Because there are Stark girls who married Waynwood's, Royce's and Templeton's. Their children weren't likely named after northern kings. Also, this opens up another method and reasoning and symbolism to Jon in his own anyway. The basic idea is that Jon was given the name of a past Stark ruler and he is alive. Robb was not and he and Grey Wind died. In general, Jon Arryn could be a red herring, because there are plenty of posters that believe Jon Con could be the name inspiration based on that Arthur theory (which, yes, I do dismiss). But saying Jon Snow is named after Arryn, which is also a historic Stark name, is awfully convenient Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wolves Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 35 minutes ago, Jon's Queen Consort said: Ned is Jon's father, he may was his adoptive father but he was his father when it mattered and not just a sperm donor like Rhaegar. What do you mean "when it mattered?" Rhaegar never got the chance to be Jon's father "when it mattered" which still doesn't take away the fact that Rhaegar is Jon's father. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted October 17, 2016 Author Share Posted October 17, 2016 23 minutes ago, The Wolves said: What do you mean "when it mattered?" Rhaegar never got the chance to be Jon's father "when it mattered" which still doesn't take away the fact that Rhaegar is Jon's father. We have seen what kind of father Rhaegar was when he abandoned his children. Heck he even thought that his son was the Savior of humanity and he still abandoned him at the hands of his crazy father. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhythmicsheep Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 I figured Ned was like, "I'm home with a bastard so you can pick the name for the one in your belly." No but seriously, I think it was just a thing he did to make her feel more at home in her strange new home. Name the firstborn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted October 17, 2016 Author Share Posted October 17, 2016 2 minutes ago, rhythmicsheep said: name for the one in your belly. Robb was older than Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhythmicsheep Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 Just now, Jon's Queen Consort said: Robb was older than Jon. Whoops sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YOVMO Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 2 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said: But Robb is just Robb. It is not short for Robert as I once thought when first reading. And there was a Rickon that was married a Glover a while back. Just as a point of fact that might be interesting. Robb (2 b's) is a fairly common Scottish surname. The reason it is common dates back to a late 13th early 14th century Scots king named Robert the Bruce who went by Robb. It has been some time so my memory is a bit hazy but, I am fairly sure, that after the King of England installed a puppet government by giving the crown of the Scotland to some lapdog Robb who was a lord at the time rose in defiance and became king. My history is hazy though and I can't really look up detains right now. 2 hours ago, devilish said: Its tongue to cheek. But seriously Ned's respect towards Robert is disturbing While a lot of Ned's loyalty, if not the vast majority of it, towards Robert comes from the type of guy Ned is, the early friendship of growing up with him as wards of John Arryn and an honest admiration and liking of the man, I think there is a lot of guilt that Ned feels about the situation with Lyanna and hiding the truth from Robert which also plays a role. TBH what is more interesting to me is why on planetos Balon named two of his sons, including the eldest, after Stark Kings of Winter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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